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Who's become our most important player?

View Poll Results: Who's our most important player?
Plekanec 89 46.35%
Cammalleri 1 0.52%
Markov 4 2.08%
None. It's now a team game. 20 10.42%
Other (Price?) 78 40.63%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:11 PM
  #51
fufonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaBs_ReNeGaTe View Post
Come ooooon...
I don't think he was trolling.

I think he's basically just saying that since we don't have Halak anymore, Price is most important since we'd have to rely on Auld if he got injured.
I tend to agree.

If we had two great goaltenders, then it's less of an issue if one of them goes down.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:12 PM
  #52
tiersen24
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Price and Plekanec, but Plekanec if I really have to choose between the two ! Since the start of the season, Plekanec has been the instigator of almost every important goals we needed ! Price, well, he's been elite but our defencemen are doing hell of job in front of him too !

Anyway, I think they are both important to our team right now !

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:12 PM
  #53
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I gave the vote to Plex, but solid HM to Carey Price who's been a phenom.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:13 PM
  #54
danyhabsfan
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Easily Price for me

I dont know why everybody is voting for Pleky as much as I like him.

Goalie>Forward

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Fairly interesting opinion. Price is playing wonderfully (love seeing all the complete 60 minute chunks of concentration and movement control from him so far this year), but without Plekanec in this lineup we have all the offensive AND defensive responsibilities on Gomez. I'm sorry, but when your best defensive forward is also your best offensive forward - and he plays at the level Tom has been - I have no problem elevating his "importance" above the goaltender.

I still subscribe to the fundamental that the goaltender is the most important position on the ice. But looking at this Habs team and the type game it plays, I think the 1st line ES/PP/PK'er who seems to be the only one catalyzing any offense from our struggling wingers and who is absolutely the lynch pin forward on defense (which allows guys like Pyatt to keep it simple and be effective) is possibly more important to the overall scheme than whoever is in nets... even if someone playing like Price is probably gives you a good extra 5-10 points on the season over someone like Auld or Average Joe NHL starter.

Of course, this is all in the absence of Markov - who would otherwise be the obvious best choice. When healthy, still by far the best player on the team AND most important.

I tend to agree with most of what you say there, and I might even consider flip-flopping to Plekanec as the most important player (two posts above, I said I'd pick Price).

Though, you've made such a good point that I disagree with your last sentence there. With the absence of Markov, we still have Subban to do what he does. He doesn't do it as well, but he can do it.

Though I think Markov is likely our best player, I don't think he's our most important anymore.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:22 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Easily Price for me

I dont know why everybody is voting for Pleky as much as I like him.

Goalie>Forward
Neuvirth > Ovechkin?
Crosby > Fleury?

I know that it's extreme, but simply stating that you chose Price and can't understand why people choose Pleks because "Goalie>Forward" is a little too simple.

A PPG player who is great defensively and regularly prevents goals being scored on his team is worth at least 1 goal per game, no?

A 93% save percentage goaltender, replaced with a 90% save percentage goaltender (huge difference) results in less than a goal per game difference if the team lets in 30 shots on net.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:23 PM
  #57
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It's close between Price or Plekanec, but I gotta give it to Price! Our most valuable player so far this year

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:28 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
Neuvirth > Ovechkin?
Crosby > Fleury?

I know that it's extreme, but simply stating that you chose Price and can't understand why people choose Pleks because "Goalie>Forward" is a little too simple.

A PPG player who is great defensively and regularly prevents goals being scored on his team is worth at least 1 goal per game, no?

A 93% save percentage goaltender, replaced with a 90% save percentage goaltender (huge difference) results in less than a goal per game difference if the team lets in 30 shots on net.
Yes, but a goalie playing like Price brings confidence to the entire team allowing them to charge more instead of turtling around a weak goalie.

I also agree that at equal talent at their respective position, I would take goalie over forward. I'm of the old Habs philosophy of building a team from goalie 1st, D 2nd and forwards 3rd.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:37 PM
  #59
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He's made some magnificent saves this year that kept our team in the games... We've given plenty of two-on-ones or three-on-twos... We've won some games by a single goal... And we have yet to give up more than three goals in a game... Gotta agree with Subban76 that he brings confidence to the entire team and I stick to my opinion he's our top player so far this year

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
I tend to agree with most of what you say there, and I might even consider flip-flopping to Plekanec as the most important player (two posts above, I said I'd pick Price).

Though, you've made such a good point that I disagree with your last sentence there. With the absence of Markov, we still have Subban to do what he does. He doesn't do it as well, but he can do it.

Though I think Markov is likely our best player, I don't think he's our most important anymore.
You know what? You could be right. I may elevate his status because of past trends in team performance (w vs w-out Markov, etc) and his position as the team's one, true world-class elite player. That's the past though, and we're obviously discussing the present, so you won't get any argument from me.

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:08 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
A PPG player who is great defensively and regularly prevents goals being scored on his team is worth at least 1 goal per game, no?
I don't think so because without Pleks, I think players still score. Lars Eller could step in as a centre and get top 6 time. He's produce more than he is now, he wouldn't produce at Plek's level.

But Pleks's defensive skills are fairly easily replaced imo and if he was hurt, we'd have $5m in cap space to do alot of things. You can get a top 6 forward for that price fairly easily.

Replacing Price for $2.75m isn't exactly doable.

So Price >>>> Pleks because there are more options to replace Pleks cuz of his salary and its harder to replace Price within his salary range.

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:19 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I don't think so because without Pleks, I think players still score. Lars Eller could step in as a centre and get top 6 time. He's produce more than he is now, he wouldn't produce at Plek's level.

But Pleks's defensive skills are fairly easily replaced imo and if he was hurt, we'd have $5m in cap space to do alot of things. You can get a top 6 forward for that price fairly easily.

Replacing Price for $2.75m isn't exactly doable.

So Price >>>> Pleks because there are more options to replace Pleks cuz of his salary and its harder to replace Price within his salary range.
I'll give you that, in taking salary into the equation, Price is our most important player.
Talking pure skills, no replacement of salary, I think I still stick with Pleks.

I don't know, maybe it's because I've been cheering for the Habs and have gone through so many goalies that play well that my perception is skewed, but I find the goalie position overrated.

Since Hackett, we've gone through Theodore, Huet, Price, and Halak and each has always given us a chance to win and we were always missing that game changing forward to put us over the top.

Every year you see a new top goaltenders and more often than not, it doesn't even last. Goalies like Brodeur and Luongo, that are seen as the pick of the crop, are not even consistently top 5 goaltenders in terms of save percentage.
Look since the lockout at the top 5 goaltenders for save % and you'll see that it revolves so much because it's so inconsistent.

I just did a quick check at the top 7 goalies in save percentage for the last 6 years, which means that they were in the top 25% of starting goalies (though some were admittedly backups) in the league.

The only guys that were in the "top 25%" of goaltenders more than once were:
Thomas (4 times)
Vokoun (4 times)
Backstrom (3 times)
Huet (twice)
Price (twice)
Luongo (twice)
Conklin (twice)

Of all the goaltenders that have played in the NHL in the past 6 years, no other goalie was in the top-7 more than once (23 other goalies finished in the top 7 at one point in time).

PS. I know these stats are somewhat skewed because I took this year as a stat and used goaltenders that were backups in some of these, but I think it still shows how random goaltending is.

One last point:
Taking Brodeur's career stats (0.914 SV%) and comparing them to Auld's, for example (0.904 SV%), this means that it would take 100 shots on average for Auld to let in an extra goal. At an average of 25 shots against per game, it would take Auld 4 games to let in an extra goal - on average.

I know a lot of factors play into this, but I still find it's very telling.


Last edited by fufonzo: 11-17-2010 at 07:41 PM.
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Old
11-17-2010, 08:24 PM
  #63
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I voted pleks but IMO its a split/debatable between price. Although if you go on the assumption that a goalie being important is a given on any team, then yes its #14

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Old
11-17-2010, 08:26 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techfox View Post
It's a tie between Plekanec and Price.
This, but Price is more "valuable" because well... forwards can step up in the absence of other forwards. Price is on, or we are doomed

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Old
11-17-2010, 08:32 PM
  #65
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Gorges, seriously. A game without Gorges would be quite painful to watch on defense.

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Old
11-17-2010, 08:42 PM
  #66
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Its all about the team.

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Old
11-17-2010, 08:43 PM
  #67
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I'm going with Plekanec because great goaltending cannot win you games if you can't score. And Plekanec has been the architect of our offense. Anyone who plays with him produces.

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:20 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Inspired from Markov's injury. There was a time when, if Markov went down, we knew we'd be under .500. It seems we've turned the page on that one from last year's playoffs and the beginning of this year. Who's that new guy? Plekanec? Cammalleri? Do people still think Markov? Or do we not have one and it's no longer a single player after our team-wide changes last summer? It would be interesting to see people's thoughts.
rahter laughable that your pool doesnt have Price among the choices..

Price has been by far our best player so far, followed by Pleks.. I think Subban is essential to this team success as well and think he is now our #1 defenseman..

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
carey without a doubt.

Pleky is our best player, but Carey is our most important, if that makes any sense.
I see what you did there.


Seriously, it's good you make the distinction between both.
I've voted Pleks, but it's true Plekanec won't win games all by himself, while Price could and already has..

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:42 PM
  #70
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Price and Plekanec are by far the most important players on the squad.

Pleks does everything and plays every situation. Not to mention, if he goes down, gomez is the #1 centre. There's no room for losing him.

There's not much that needs to be said about Price. Not only is he the MVP of the team, but he's put up Hart calibur numbers too (I know its early).

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:50 PM
  #71
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PK Subban deserves a mention if not given already.

While Markov is out, the Habs have a winning record with PK Subban in the lineup.

Habs seem to be able to win without Markov...

However I have a suspicion that without PK this team would be a 500 team.

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:56 PM
  #72
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Fairly interesting opinion. Price is playing wonderfully (love seeing all the complete 60 minute chunks of concentration and movement control from him so far this year), but without Plekanec in this lineup we have all the offensive AND defensive responsibilities on Gomez. I'm sorry, but when your best defensive forward is also your best offensive forward - and he plays at the level Tom has been - I have no problem elevating his "importance" above the goaltender.

I still subscribe to the fundamental that the goaltender is the most important position on the ice. But looking at this Habs team and the type game it plays, I think the 1st line ES/PP/PK'er who seems to be the only one catalyzing any offense from our struggling wingers and who is absolutely the lynch pin forward on defense (which allows guys like Pyatt to keep it simple and be effective) is possibly more important to the overall scheme than whoever is in nets... even if someone playing like Price is probably gives you a good extra 5-10 points on the season over someone like Auld or Average Joe NHL starter.

Of course, this is all in the absence of Markov - who would otherwise be the obvious best choice. When healthy, still by far the best player on the team AND most important.
Well, you are looking at 3players versus 1 here..So, I don't think it's very fair.
But as I mentioned before, Plekanec, Price and Subban have been huge for us. I think not having any of them play as well as they are would have influenced our record a great deal. I think the key to our success has been a complete Team play. Guys like Darche, Pouliot, Halpern, Pyatt, Spacek, Hamrlik, Gill, Gorges are all part of our success. I believe we're the best example of how a simple good team that plays incredibly well together can be very dominant. Pheonix was another great example of this last year.

You could pretty much flip a coin as to which of Plek or Price is more valuable this year.
Would we be in the same place if Auld had played 16Games for us?..Of course not.
Would we be in the same place if Gomez/Eller were our 1-2punch down the middle?..Of course not.

I put both of them on the same level, but if I absolutely have to pick one, then I will simply take the one with the most impressive stats, and as of today, that's Price.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:08 AM
  #73
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Price for sure. If he keeps playing like this he guarantees we win more games than we'll lose. If he starts to falter, then we won't go far.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:22 AM
  #74
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Spacek.

Helps deflect criticism off others.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:27 AM
  #75
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gave my vote to pleks, he's just too damn gangsta

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