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Which player can "patch" the Habs' lack of physical toughness

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Old
11-17-2010, 02:45 PM
  #101
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
I'm terribly disappointed in Moen on that front though.

We don't pay him 1.5M to score goals.

I love the guy, he plays good, etc... but Halpern is more than 50% $ for the same job, same with Pyatt, etc.
I thought Moen would be more of an Ass.
Moen has been the same player he was in Anaheim. Usually he would have signed for 1 mil/year, but he got 1.5 because he won and cup and was a UFA. I think he was a solid addition. Halpern was a huge bargain, much like Afinogenov the summer before, you can't judge all players based on his salary as a pile of teams were either capped out, had no budget left or didn't need a checking center.

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11-17-2010, 02:48 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post

more seriously though, there is nothing on the UFA market besides frikkin Artyukin LOL!!
McGrattan might be easily available from Boston
talking about boston, they will have to clear caproom, so a guy like Shawn Thornton might become available? only making 800k.
As much as I sometimes hate this guy when we play against him, I gotta admit I kinda like him too, and I have been thinking for a year or two now I'd love to see the hate he brings against the Habs come over to our side. And he can chip in a few goals too, unlike BGL.

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11-17-2010, 02:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Are you seriously comparing Lapierre and Subban to Powe, Carcillo, Richards etc? The flyers arent calling anyone up to stop Lapierre because the guys is all mouth. Big deal they will headshot Pleks in the corner next shift or maybe run Cammalleri, it's not like we have anyone that plays with that edge and we certainly don't have anyone willing & able to fight with them. Lapierres fight was pathetic, might aswell left his hands in his pockets.

Is Henry gonna take someones head off or is he just another lumbering heavy weight who wont grab someone smaller like Richards and take him to town? We don't need some lame staged fight with another plug we need to show that liberties will not be taken BEFORE we lose someone important. When we recieve a headshot the other team should know they will recieve one aswell.

We don't need a goon we need a talented player who is tough and willing to play on the edge.

As I said before, Philie plays chippy bordering on dirty and having a goon in the lineup won't stop that, just like having Thornton didn't stop Cooke. Even if we had Laraque dressed, I doubt it changes the way Richards, Pow, Hartnell and Pronger play. Our guys should do the same to Briere, Giroux, Richards, Pronger, Carter...make them pay the price.

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11-17-2010, 02:50 PM
  #104
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Forgive me but I had to:

Max Patchioretty

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11-17-2010, 02:54 PM
  #105
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You cannot patch for lack of toughness, you can only build. It means 3-4 tough players in the top 9 forwards or top 6 Ds.

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11-17-2010, 03:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Moen has been the same player he was in Anaheim. Usually he would have signed for 1 mil/year, but he got 1.5 because he won and cup and was a UFA. I think he was a solid addition. Halpern was a huge bargain, much like Afinogenov the summer before, you can't judge all players based on his salary as a pile of teams were either capped out, had no budget left or didn't need a checking center.
I think he played thougher when they won the cup? no?

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11-17-2010, 03:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
I think he played thougher when they won the cup? no?
He wasn't a heavyweight enforcer then, he was a shutdown player, he's still the same guy, not sure what you expected. He's a banger that shows up most nights, contributes on the PK and will protect teammates. Seems like a good guy to have in the room also.

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11-17-2010, 03:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
White is another Moen, great energy type of player but he can't go against heavyweights
Holy**** some people will never get it! We're not asking for a heavyweight, we're asking for a player(s) that starts fires (like a big hit + fight) and defends their teammates when the time is needed. That's why White and Henry are perfect for the job.

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11-17-2010, 03:29 PM
  #109
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both overpaid but Penner or Umberger would help.

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11-17-2010, 03:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
both overpaid but Penner or Umberger would help.
Ummmmmberger isn't too bad. He'd fit into the troll group.

Dustin Byfuglien would fit nicely in with our trolls.

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Old
11-17-2010, 03:39 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Ummmmmberger isn't too bad. He'd fit into the troll group.

Dustin Byfuglien would fit nicely in with our trolls.
yes Dustin is so dreamy! Doubt Atlanta lets go of him

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11-17-2010, 04:01 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Wait, are you saying McPhee and Corson weren't talented? Nilan was a goon, but a lot of our skilled players could go any way the other team wanted to. Skrudland, Muller... we had teams very similar to what Philly ices today, and I do miss it.

I guess thats why I have a soft spot for Moen, I like the role player as much as the sniper.
I have to disagree. I think Knuckles was the last great tough-guy to play for the Habs, in the tradition of John Ferguson. Of course he was a great fighter, but he scored 15 goals three times and had over 30 points twice - Not exactly BGL numbers. Moreover, he played alongside Gainey and Carbo in 1986, essentially a member of our shut-down line in a year we won the cup. He was a +10 that season.

We would be very lucky to have a player like Chris Nilan on the team now.

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11-17-2010, 04:20 PM
  #113
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Personally I just don't care so much because I don't think we can 'patch'. Calling up 1-2 goons in the line-up won't change anything. Least of all, it will NOT prevent dangerous, dirty hits. Savard got taken out by Cooke, Krejci in the playoffs by Richards, is it because they lack toughness? They don't. It's just that dirty hits from dirty players are not prevented by having goons. Those guys see the opportunity and take it, they don't think for 1 second about who the other team has in their rooster.

Only the league and referees can really settle the problem. I think it might even be worse if we had 'enforcers', because we would risk falling in their game and then they will have a whole lot more players that can play rough and dirty than we do. We would need to build a whole team around it to compete in that area, but we built around speed and smarts, not toughness and grit. We still have gritty players that sticked to their game yesterday and didn't let themselves get intimidated, but unless you have dirty players that will just do the same stupid dangerous hits than they do, you can't really do the same to them.

Does anyone HONESTLY think that having Henry in the line-up last night would have prevented Hartnell from nailing Gionta in the middle of the ice or Powe to crush Halpern's head in the board? Oh, he might have fought Powe instead of Lappy (and likely not, those players DON'T want to fight people that can hurt them they know how to pick their fights, you saw how Powe just refused going with Moen) but putting Henry too often on the ice at the same time as those guys would end up being dangerous for actually winning the game.

It's fun to say 'you can't trust the league, you have to defend yourself!' but unless your whole team is built for it, it's not realistic, and one enforcer never changed anything about it. One 'top line guy that can drop them' doesn't either, you need 2, 3, 4 of them. The problem is when referees are totally unable to keep control of the game and let everything degenerate by not calling penalties when they should, and the league being unable to have serious sanctions for dangerous players, especially repeated offenders. All you can do is stick to your game, not get intimidated (that's a kind of toughness our players have) and win. Don't downgrade your rooster to fit in a goon that will not prevent any kind of injury from happening.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:21 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ground And Pound View Post
I don't understand why it's such a big deal with PK. Frustration i guess
It probably isn't. Richards was frustrated as you said and chose the way of the media to both vent and maybe try to intimidate Subban / have the team off their game on money. It's gamesmanship, Subban shouldn't change a thing about the way he does things, if anything this just shows the way he plays is extremely effective.

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Old
11-17-2010, 05:59 PM
  #115
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This is the time I wish we'd have a healthy Souray....

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11-17-2010, 06:20 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Moen has been the same player he was in Anaheim. Usually he would have signed for 1 mil/year, but he got 1.5 because he won and cup and was a UFA. I think he was a solid addition. Halpern was a huge bargain, much like Afinogenov the summer before, you can't judge all players based on his salary as a pile of teams were either capped out, had no budget left or didn't need a checking center.
In Anaheim he dropped the gloves 10-12 times per year
Last year only 5 times ??!!!

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11-17-2010, 06:36 PM
  #117
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Man, i would take Bieksa on our blueline!! I just saw him KO Craig Adam tonight!

I think that if we could have Bieksa with Moen and White, we would be in good shape. No heavyweights, but some tough players that knows how to play hockey.

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11-17-2010, 07:05 PM
  #118
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Lapierre

First we need to rid of ''useless'' player like Pyatt and Boyd on the 4th line.Yes pyatt is good on the PK , but come on, White can do his job + he can bring the physical presence. Next year Moen-R.Nidermayer -White could be a very solide 4th line.

Next step is to find a Big top 4 D. Yes fighters on the 4th line is nice, but we need Big player ONE THE ICE at the same time as the first 2 line .A guy like Regher of Bieska will play 20 minutes + So even if he don't fight often ,he can calm down everyone on the ice and protect our top player.

Tird step is to bring a physical player on the top 6 . this is probably the hardest part because teams don't trade thoose kind of player , but maybe Penner or Malonde could be available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
In Anaheim he dropped the gloves 10-12 times per year
Last year only 5 times ??!!!
In Anaheim he was surrended by Pronger , Geztlaf, Parros , Beauchemin , Penner.....It give you confidence. In Montreal when he looks around him , I understand why he don't want to fight that often....At least of the begining of the season Obyrn was there...

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11-17-2010, 08:47 PM
  #119
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I have to say I was disappointed in a way to hear O'byrne was traded as he seemed like one of our go to guys when it came to dropping the gloves and actually having a chance at winning a fight. However I'm quite impressed with how Moen has played the last couple games, I hope he can step up and be our next bigger checker.

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:08 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
I have to say I was disappointed in a way to hear O'byrne was traded as he seemed like one of our go to guys when it came to dropping the gloves and actually having a chance at winning a fight. However I'm quite impressed with how Moen has played the last couple games, I hope he can step up and be our next bigger checker.
Moen would be even tougher if he'd be better surrounded.

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Old
11-18-2010, 07:17 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
In Anaheim he dropped the gloves 10-12 times per year
Last year only 5 times ??!!!
He had 25 in 4 years before we signed him, that's 6.25 a year. He had 5 last year and 2 so far in 18 games. In the 1 1/4 season he's been here his average is down less than a fight per year. Obviously JM likes fighting a lot less than Anhaeim with Burke and co at the helm but the difference is negligible.

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11-18-2010, 07:18 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moen would be even tougher if he'd be better surrounded.
I agree, if he had a legit NHL heavy in the lineup, it's easier to protect teammates because you don't get Orr, Thornton, Boogard and co in your face if you do so.

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11-18-2010, 07:21 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
Lapierre

First we need to rid of ''useless'' player like Pyatt and Boyd on the 4th line.Yes pyatt is good on the PK , but come on, White can do his job + he can bring the physical presence. Next year Moen-R.Nidermayer -White could be a very solide 4th line.

Next step is to find a Big top 4 D. Yes fighters on the 4th line is nice, but we need Big player ONE THE ICE at the same time as the first 2 line .A guy like Regher of Bieska will play 20 minutes + So even if he don't fight often ,he can calm down everyone on the ice and protect our top player.

Tird step is to bring a physical player on the top 6 . this is probably the hardest part because teams don't trade thoose kind of player , but maybe Penner or Malonde could be available...



In Anaheim he was surrended by Pronger , Geztlaf, Parros , Beauchemin , Penner.....It give you confidence. In Montreal when he looks around him , I understand why he don't want to fight that often....At least of the begining of the season Obyrn was there...
Penner and Pronger? Seriously? They are like the biggest ******* out there. Pronger mostly fights guys like Cleary and Handzus. Penner hasn't fought in 18 months.

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Old
11-18-2010, 07:31 AM
  #124
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1 player won't do it, we'd need to change the entire culture of the team, and that would mean bringing in several players. Get used to what you see now.

Also, Moen has played great. I don't know why people are harping on him.

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11-18-2010, 07:49 AM
  #125
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One player that I would like to see on the Habs that would address our toughness is Scott Hartnell. He would be perfect on the LW with Gomez and Gionta, he would help our top 6 and he would be another big, tough body in the lineup to go along with Moen.

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