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Stop the Meter (Internet usage billing)

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Old
11-17-2010, 05:18 PM
  #1
Jack Bourdain
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Stop the Meter (Internet usage billing)

If this concerns you, please take the time to read it:

http://action.cwa-union.org/c/779/p/...action_KEY=874

and if you see it important enough for your time, sign the petition and lets hope we can right the wrongs done by the CRTC and the Telecomm companies.

(I ask the Mods to move this if they wish, I'd just like to point out that without the presence of independent ISPs, Quebec would only have capped usage which is a big step back in terms of digital technology. The rest of the world is moving forward, we should too.)

New updated link: http://openmedia.ca/meter


Last edited by overlords: 02-03-2011 at 06:57 PM.
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Old
11-17-2010, 05:21 PM
  #2
overlords
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mods should leave this for a few days, everyone who accesses hfboards from canada is affected by this. Telecom companies trying to **** us every chance they get.

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Old
11-17-2010, 05:21 PM
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CareyClutch
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Done.

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Old
11-17-2010, 05:30 PM
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Mister Potato
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What exactly are the fees charge by CRTC ? I have that for home phone as well and Bell told me they would refund me.

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11-17-2010, 06:34 PM
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Shabutie
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I dont see the point of this as much as I'd like unlimited services... Telcos are already imposing caps the same way as cellphone companies do. Its been this way for years and likey will never change, as much as consumers may want it to. Its not unreasonable for telcos to want to make some money on bandwidth. The fees certain companies charge is whats unreasonable. Videotron recently went down nearly 50% for overusage charges. Its a step in the right direction but we are still no where near as competitive as companies in the uk.

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Old
11-17-2010, 06:38 PM
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Player 61
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Just an FYI I was also told by Bell that I would be refunded for this, they even have an ongoing message about this when you call them.

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Old
11-17-2010, 06:55 PM
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HabsoluteFate
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ridiculous....we have to get the word out to pretty much anyone you know...this is a step back when in fact we should be taking a step forward with unlimited long distance, cell phone, etc

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:07 PM
  #8
maci4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Potato View Post
What exactly are the fees charge by CRTC ? I have that for home phone as well and Bell told me they would refund me.
UBB is user based billing. basically the trend is that monthly caps are being lowered ( in the name of congestion) and higher fees are being imposed once people hit their cap.

this phenomenon will be even more apparent as more people begin to stream shows and videos online. Bell and rogers see this cash cow for what it is and are ready to reap the rewards in a strategic policy of adding bandwidth hogging online content of their own, but lowering caps. Not only do you have to subscribe to the on demand tv, but you have to pay the overage fees once you hit your cap. win win situation for robbers and bhell.

UBB would be fine if there was competition but here in Canada we don't have any. the public's only alternatives from this ****** was being able to sign up with wholesalers such as techsavvy, and other indie companies which were bell ( and now rogers ) resellers, but now that the CRTC has lumped together the consumer and wholesaler as one and imposed the exact same restrictions, they may very well go bankrupt as they have hardly any competitive advantage.

once the indies are gone, rogers and bell are free to lower their caps to whatever they want and continue to charge UBB with ever so increasing costs as they will surely petition CRTC for yearly UBB rate hikes.

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:34 PM
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CrAzYNiNe
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signed. Pathetic CRTS. Did the tax to support ****** canadian tv shows?

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Old
11-17-2010, 08:17 PM
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Aznrx8
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You guys know what's the wort in this ?
We have the most expensive internet and the slowest compared to Europe, Asia or even the USA

http://www.montrealgazette.com/techn...331/story.html

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Old
11-17-2010, 09:42 PM
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Team_Spirit
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
You guys know what's the wort in this ?
We have the most expensive internet and the slowest compared to Europe, Asia or even the USA

http://www.montrealgazette.com/techn...331/story.html
This is really sad..

Chinese are putting africans to work as we speak digging up trenches to lay the optical fiber to get africa online. Soon they gonna have better connections than us and for dirt cheap.

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:00 PM
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Fel 96
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WTH I don't even....

just stupid.

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:05 PM
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Crimson Skorpion
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Done and done.

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:24 PM
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hototogisu
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Done. The current system is already a big enough joke as it is with B.S. upload/download capping.

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Old
11-18-2010, 06:19 AM
  #15
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As much as I may be against caps personally, you all do realize that capacity is a finite resource owned by corporations, right?

Imagine the government had never built highways and they were instead owned by private companies and you'll understand the reasoning behind usage fees (tolls). If you're serious about free unlimited access for all two things are required:

-Nationalize all Internet backbone in Canada (probably at a cost of billions since we are not a banana republic)
-Prepare for increased taxes to ensure proper maintenance and expansion of the backbone as required (since demand always increases capacity must also be increased). That being said, the lack of a need to profit and the ability to spread out the tax amongst the entire country would minimize the individual burden.

I'm not arguing for or against but it's something you have to consider when asking for unlimited usage without caps.

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Old
11-18-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer View Post
As much as I may be against caps personally, you all do realize that capacity is a finite resource owned by corporations, right?

Imagine the government had never built highways and they were instead owned by private companies and you'll understand the reasoning behind usage fees (tolls). If you're serious about free unlimited access for all two things are required:

-Nationalize all Internet backbone in Canada (probably at a cost of billions since we are not a banana republic)
-Prepare for increased taxes to ensure proper maintenance and expansion of the backbone as required (since demand always increases capacity must also be increased). That being said, the lack of a need to profit and the ability to spread out the tax amongst the entire country would minimize the individual burden.

I'm not arguing for or against but it's something you have to consider when asking for unlimited usage without caps.
To be honest I buy that the rest of Canada gets crap bandwidth but I don't buy it in Quebec's case.

Videotron offers a service 120mbit down/20mbit up, hardly considered to be slow internet even by European standards.

What do you guys honestly want 100mbit up/down? Yeah having the 100mbit upstream would be great but I can live with 120mbit down/20mbit up if it came to needing that kind of bandwidth.

The rest of Canada doesn't get videotron though so they basically not only get offered slower inferior services, they get throttled and much stricter traffic caps where they'll charge you for the traffic you go over by. Even though videotron also does this their higher end business lines and even some residential are much more reasonable with regard to the traffic. I can live with 50mbit down/2mbit up and 300gb of traffic a month.

If you guys think it's that much better in Europe go to the UK or France, the internet is terrible there. Yeah sure in eastern Europe and places like Romania they have like 100mbit internet and stuff but at what cost? Also you would then have to live in Romania rather than Canada. Your call

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Old
11-18-2010, 10:28 AM
  #17
Pascal
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who really needs 100mb unless they are downloading porn 24/7 or sharing pirated software? I use my internet all the time and 98% of it is just web browsing. I love YT videos just fine and game without lag.

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11-18-2010, 10:53 AM
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Right...nationalize all the ISPs, with the govt running the internet, things will sure improve, just like the way every other govt service and crown corporation is so amazingly well run!!

The reason Canada's internet blows chunks is because of all the rules preventing investors from coming in. Canada has become a big sleepy club with 3-4 companies that are insulated from competition. If you allowed in European & American companies in theyd pour billions of investment into our infrastructure and kick the ***** of the Canadian oligopoly that gouges us (with the CRTC's consent). But Canadian's are so stupid they'd rather be ripped off than allow evil foreigners to come in!

Anyways, I don't agree with this petition because it's just people trying to free ride off existing infrastructure (similar to the "net neutrality" crap in the US), they are not investing anything.

I personally wouldn't mind since I am one of those people who uses a lot of bandwidth, but my wasteful habits should not be subsidized by other people, people like me should pay for what we use. Prices should come down by more investment (including foreign) and competition, not from government price controls for free riders, they will only set back Canada's internet development further because they will make investing unprofitable.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:05 AM
  #19
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more CRTC crap ruling for the big Telecos screwing small indie IP's and the customers.

In june, I had issues connecting to the Internet with Tekksavy. I had figured it had something to do with my Modem so i had called them and troubleshooted things to no avail. They sent a ticket to bell just in case they have to send a technician to my house to check the lines. 2 hours later, i buy a new modem, come back home , make it work, call Teksavvy to cancel the ticket and everything was merry in the world.

Today, i receive my bill and i got a DMC ticket for 86+tax on my bill on top of my usual rate.

I call Teksavvy and they tell me bell charges fees just to LOOK in the file practically. In two hours, don't tell me they did any kind of testing or had to tell a tech guy to come back after being on my way back ( i was told it takes 48 hours to get a diagnostic from bell...)

What does tekavvy tell me now? the decision for ISP's like bell to charge ridiculous and arbitrary fees to the end user of another company whenever they like way down the line is SUPPORTED BY THE CRTC. They think it's perfectly reasonable.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:12 AM
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otto bond
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Will this affect the magic jack?

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:17 AM
  #21
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OK well look at it from Bell's point of view? Bell's investors spent billions building up infrastructure, why should Tekksavvy be allowed a profitable ride to come in and arbitrage Bell's bandwidth?

I'm not a fan of Bell, they are awful, but they have an obligation to their shareholders (who are not evil supervillains, large chunks of companies like Bell are owned by pension funds & mutual funds) to make as much profit as possible within the bounds of the law (a rule to prevent inefficiency and employee theft). If they allow Teksavvy to siphon off profits and market share, their shareholders will not be happy.

Canada needs to break down the nationalist walls that prevent new investment (like has happened slightly, when those WIND mobile guys from Egypt were allowed in recently) and competition. This is where real sustainable price drops and speed improvement will happen. It's not going to come from non-investing arbitragers like Teksavvy begging the CRTC for price controls.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:24 AM
  #22
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As much as I hate the caps and would love them gone, we can't compare costs and speed to European or Asian countries.

The infrastructure needed per person is much much higher in Canada than in the rest of the world so we should expect to pay more.
With that sad, I do hate Bell and Rogers and am hoping that wireless internet will allow other smaller companies to come in and create a competitive market in the future.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:25 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
OK well look at it from Bell's point of view? Bell's investors spent billions building up infrastructure, why should Tekksavvy be allowed a profitable ride to come in and arbitrage Bell's bandwidth?

I'm not a fan of Bell, they are awful, but they have an obligation to their shareholders (who are not evil supervillains, large chunks of companies like Bell are owned by pension funds & mutual funds) to make as much profit as possible within the bounds of the law (a rule to prevent inefficiency and employee theft). If they allow Teksavvy to siphon off profits and market share, their shareholders will not be happy.

Canada needs to break down the nationalist walls that prevent new investment (like has happened slightly, when those WIND mobile guys from Egypt were allowed in recently) and competition. This is where real sustainable price drops and speed improvement will happen. It's not going to come from non-investing arbitragers like Teksavvy begging the CRTC for price controls.
Well said.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:28 AM
  #24
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Turboflex, bell's shareholders have nothing to do with this.
They unilaterally decided that the problem i had had nothing to do with on their end of the infrastructure , and this, after the problem being solved between a customer and another company leasing their backbones.Pretty much they got message from Teksavvy saying " The issue has been resolved" . All they had to do is delete the file. The whole thing happened between 2 hours.

6 months later, they charge teksavvy 87 dollars which they transfer to me for not being to do their job and not giving them tools to troubleshoot things properly.

Bell had nothing to do beside have a customer service agent open the file weeks later when they realized the ticket had been closed by Teksavvy much later. I know this because I worked in bell years ago and know how their callcenter is set up.

I still payed the fees, i just think what they are doing is highly unethical. If they had sent a technician to my house who told me " sorry bro your modem is fried", i would've gladly payed the amount. They didn't run any diagnostics, send anyone, do anything at all and still charged them for opening a ticket. Seriously screwed up.

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Old
11-18-2010, 11:40 AM
  #25
Captain Saku
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weird because recently videotron added 10 GB with no extra charges to my monthly bandwidth usage limit

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