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Old
11-19-2010, 12:49 PM
  #51
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Why not fight for unlimited electricity and water too!

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11-19-2010, 01:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Right...nationalize all the ISPs, with the govt running the internet, things will sure improve, just like the way every other govt service and crown corporation is so amazingly well run!!
I might be biased because i work for this crown corperation, but without sasktel, most of saskatchewan would still rely on dial up for a internet connection. No private company would have spent the money we have spent getting the rural areas connected with broadband services. We knew that we would lose money by expanding our network and we went away with it anyway because it was important to us to grow technology in this province...Additionally we were one of the first Telecoms in canada to bring IPTV up to speed, the only area we lacked as far as being a leader was wireless services...with our UMTS network now being one of the best in canada this is no longer a factor.

the crown corperations are leading technology, the problem here is the CRTC and how they are restricting everything we do. Hell we would lower our prices if we could, the CRTC does not allow us to do this because it would put our competitiors (private companys) at a "unfair" disadvantage

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11-19-2010, 01:54 PM
  #53
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Why not fight for unlimited electricity and water too!
Those are physical things. Bandwidth limits would be fine if they were 100+ GB a month in 2010, and even then a 4 person household with even one teenager is going to use that up. Bandwidth limits just don't work current day when the internet is the center of anything. It would be like charging to use public roads per KM, or charging per minute watched of TV.

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11-19-2010, 02:02 PM
  #54
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I might be biased because i work for this crown corperation, but without sasktel, most of saskatchewan would still rely on dial up for a internet connection. No private company would have spent the money we have spent getting the rural areas connected with broadband services. We knew that we would lose money by expanding our network and we went away with it anyway because it was important to us to grow technology in this province...Additionally we were one of the first Telecoms in canada to bring IPTV up to speed, the only area we lacked as far as being a leader was wireless services...with our UMTS network now being one of the best in canada this is no longer a factor.

the crown corperations are leading technology, the problem here is the CRTC and how they are restricting everything we do. Hell we would lower our prices if we could, the CRTC does not allow us to do this because it would put our competitiors (private companys) at a "unfair" disadvantage
You do not NEED crown corporations, they are incredibly outdated concepts and don't do anything unique. The arguement that they are essential for providing rural services to unprofitable areas is false, these services could be provided by private companies through contracting.

If a rural area needed to be connected say to cable, and it was unprofitable for a private company, it would be fairly easy for the government to make it profitable by putting out subsidy tenders that would make it profitable and entice private companies to do it. It's always going to be unprotifitable to service an extremely rural area, but if you're willing to run a loss it is do-able. People just pretending this loss has to be hidden on a crown corporation's balance sheet instead of coming directly out of the government treasury. There are much more efficient ways to do these things in the 21st century than through dinosaur crown corporations which are terribly run & bloated.

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11-19-2010, 02:59 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Yeah, cuz unlimited bandwidth means a lot when you're capped at 30kb/s down most of the time .
Priceless

Though I have heard they moved it up to 70kb/s now That's so much better as we all know

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11-19-2010, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
You do not NEED crown corporations, they are incredibly outdated concepts and don't do anything unique. The arguement that they are essential for providing rural services to unprofitable areas is false, these services could be provided by private companies through contracting.

If a rural area needed to be connected say to cable, and it was unprofitable for a private company, it would be fairly easy for the government to make it profitable by putting out subsidy tenders that would make it profitable and entice private companies to do it. It's always going to be unprotifitable to service an extremely rural area, but if you're willing to run a loss it is do-able. People just pretending this loss has to be hidden on a crown corporation's balance sheet instead of coming directly out of the government treasury. There are much more efficient ways to do these things in the 21st century than through dinosaur crown corporations which are terribly run & bloated.
Not to mention the fact that hey, you did choose to live in a rural area. Nobody had a gun to your head. I think it would be naive for people living in rural areas to now come forth and act like they didn't know it was even an inconvenience in the slightest to live in a rural area. I mean come on... (btw not saying you're one of those people, general statement, just quoting you to add to what you said)

To be honest those people in rural areas really don't have an excuse. Nobody is forcing you to live there, I can understand why some people choose to but you take the good with the bad when you live in a rural area just like you do in an urban area. If you can't live with that then honestly all I can say is life isn't fair, stop acting like it has been all along because it isn't. Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too. Pardon the expression as I despise it, of course you can have your cake and eat it too, but I think I got my point across

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11-19-2010, 03:08 PM
  #57
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who really needs 100mb unless they are downloading porn 24/7 or sharing pirated software? I use my internet all the time and 98% of it is just web browsing. I love YT videos just fine and game without lag.
I always wondered the same thing. Why would someone need that much download if it wasn't for porn or illegal stuff (downloading/sharing music and movies).

anyway, I signed the petition

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11-19-2010, 03:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Not to mention the fact that hey, you did choose to live in a rural area. Nobody had a gun to your head. I think it would be naive for people living in rural areas to now come forth and act like they didn't know it was even an inconvenience in the slightest to live in a rural area. I mean come on... (btw not saying you're one of those people, general statement, just quoting you to add to what you said)
Well...as a city dweller, obviously any subsidies to connect rural areas come out of my tax money...BUT I think it is healthy for Canada to have rural communities in the middle of nowhere to help populate this vast land of ours.

We are talking about people living up in Prince Albert, SK or Chibougamou, QC (or the real small villages way further north), not people living out in Valleyfield for cheap real estate and commuting to Montreal. These people miss out on a lot of the conviences people who live in southern towns and cities take for granted, yes it it is their choice, but it can be tough out there and someone needs to do it. As a great nation we can afford to subsidize the provision of some essential modern amenities like telcomm, postal service, and some basic transport services, that may not otherwise reach them for financial reasons.

We can do this better via competitive contract tenders to private companies than we currently do through wasteful and inefficient crown corporations (sasktel, VIA rail, canada post, etc.).

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11-19-2010, 03:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
You do not NEED crown corporations, they are incredibly outdated concepts and don't do anything unique. The arguement that they are essential for providing rural services to unprofitable areas is false, these services could be provided by private companies through contracting.

If a rural area needed to be connected say to cable, and it was unprofitable for a private company, it would be fairly easy for the government to make it profitable by putting out subsidy tenders that would make it profitable and entice private companies to do it. It's always going to be unprotifitable to service an extremely rural area, but if you're willing to run a loss it is do-able. People just pretending this loss has to be hidden on a crown corporation's balance sheet instead of coming directly out of the government treasury. There are much more efficient ways to do these things in the 21st century than through dinosaur crown corporations which are terribly run & bloated.
Not true. You just need to look a couple years back in Gaspesie. The government built the main line going around the region, all that was left for Bell was to put up stations and connect "the last mile". Most place went without any internet, Bell wouldn't do it until x number of houses agreed to go with them. A reasonable proposition until you realize they were asking for huge percentage of population, way above simple profit. They just didn't want to do it if it meant only a 5-10% return in profit, they wanted 50% to 100% return.

Data is just like water or electricity, having different corporations build redundant infrastructure is just a waste of money, space and an eyesore. The CRTC is suppose to be in place to protect us. Here's their mandate: "The CRTC’s mandate is to ensure that both the broadcasting and telecommunications systems serve the Canadian public. In telecommunications, the CRTC ensures that Canadians receive reliable telephone and other telecommunications services, at affordable prices."

This is a big failure from the CRTC and in the last few year it has become one of the worst public organization in Canada. Going forward, there is only two real choice for a better future : Clean up the CRTC or nationalize the data system. The government would then sell the data to any internet company who would then set their own price, allowing free enterprise and competition.

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11-19-2010, 04:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by vesperal View Post
Not true. You just need to look a couple years back in Gaspesie. The government built the main line going around the region, all that was left for Bell was to put up stations and connect "the last mile". Most place went without any internet, Bell wouldn't do it until x number of houses agreed to go with them. A reasonable proposition until you realize they were asking for huge percentage of population, way above simple profit. They just didn't want to do it if it meant only a 5-10% return in profit, they wanted 50% to 100% return.

Data is just like water or electricity, having different corporations build redundant infrastructure is just a waste of money, space and an eyesore. The CRTC is suppose to be in place to protect us. Here's their mandate: "The CRTC’s mandate is to ensure that both the broadcasting and telecommunications systems serve the Canadian public. In telecommunications, the CRTC ensures that Canadians receive reliable telephone and other telecommunications services, at affordable prices."

This is a big failure from the CRTC and in the last few year it has become one of the worst public organization in Canada. Going forward, there is only two real choice for a better future : Clean up the CRTC or nationalize the data system. The government would then sell the data to any internet company who would then set their own price, allowing free enterprise and competition.
1) Your example sounds like a bad/stupid contract was written.

2) Internet infrastructure is generally not redundant, you need more and more bandwidth capacity every year.

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11-19-2010, 04:38 PM
  #61
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hell yea i'm signing this ****.

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Old
11-19-2010, 04:55 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
I always wondered the same thing. Why would someone need that much download if it wasn't for porn or illegal stuff (downloading/sharing music and movies).

anyway, I signed the petition
Watching a HD hockey stream on your computer can be anywhere between 2 and 6 GB per game depending on just how HD it is. Most caps are less than 100 GB per month. Lets say you watch three games a week at the highest possible quality, in a four week month you've used up 72 GB of bandwidth without even browsing the internet, going on youtube, playing Xbox Live, etc etc..

EDIT: I'd also like to point out everything you do on the internet uses bandwidth.. Even talking on MSN or checking your email. It's not just downloading. Every year the internet requires more and more bandwidth to do simple tasks, it's not realistic to keep retarded caps as low as 10-20 GB per month, especially in multiple person households.


Last edited by The Kremelin Wall*: 11-19-2010 at 04:57 PM. Reason: cause
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11-19-2010, 05:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
You guys know what's the wort in this ?
We have the most expensive internet and the slowest compared to Europe, Asia or even the USA

http://www.montrealgazette.com/techn...331/story.html
In japan they have 1 GB speed available since summer 2010. South korea had something 500 MB in the summer and said that this christmas they will have the 1 GB speed available. Of course no throtling !

this is for residential users.

PS I think I will join colba.net 24 mbps service. It is their own network ( built and financed by them ). It would cost 17.95 per month if you prepay it at the beginning of the contract or 35$ if you pay monthly. My bro does not know anything about IT. He got offered 2 MB from bell ( he already has phone with them ) and 25 GM limit for a "special" price of 38.99 a month.

My other bro works for bell mobility - etobicoke, ontaio - and after 2 yrs there he says that Bell is a scam. They spend more money and time fixing the problems they create then innovating and improving. all employees know it. No wonder you overpay.


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11-19-2010, 05:07 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
Why not fight for unlimited electricity and water too!
Consumers should do it. The fact is it benefits consumers. As a population, we would be stupid if we didn't ask for unlimited internet. It sends a message to corporations that they can't just increase prices whenever they want. Corporations need to know that people will speak up and stop buying their product when prices are inflated for no reason.

Its part of keeping supply and demand in check. If consumers didn't take these actions, then it would be the late medieval times

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11-19-2010, 05:18 PM
  #65
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more CRTC crap ruling for the big Telecos screwing small indie IP's and the customers.

In june, I had issues connecting to the Internet with Tekksavy. I had figured it had something to do with my Modem so i had called them and troubleshooted things to no avail. They sent a ticket to bell just in case they have to send a technician to my house to check the lines. 2 hours later, i buy a new modem, come back home , make it work, call Teksavvy to cancel the ticket and everything was merry in the world.

Today, i receive my bill and i got a DMC ticket for 86+tax on my bill on top of my usual rate.

I call Teksavvy and they tell me bell charges fees just to LOOK in the file practically. In two hours, don't tell me they did any kind of testing or had to tell a tech guy to come back after being on my way back ( i was told it takes 48 hours to get a diagnostic from bell...)

What does tekavvy tell me now? the decision for ISP's like bell to charge ridiculous and arbitrary fees to the end user of another company whenever they like way down the line is SUPPORTED BY THE CRTC. They think it's perfectly reasonable.
Lol, I'd dispute this charge. I work for a reseller and the DMC charge is for a ticket that was "improperly" opened. Bell charges the Reseller not the end use. In this case, Teksavvy is charging you because they were charged. It's not your fault that they (teksavvy) didn't troubleshoot properly (modem issue, not line issue).

You should definitely contest this.

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11-20-2010, 12:08 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
1) Your example sounds like a bad/stupid contract was written.

2) Internet infrastructure is generally not redundant, you need more and more bandwidth capacity every year.
1) Maybe but I was responding to your point that you don't need crown corporations, you could do it through private contracting. The region needed to get the internet for future economic development, the government put the money to make it happen. Bell negotiated the contract to their advantage knowing that the only other option for the government was to create a crown corporation. Without competition, the government has no leverage.

2) We're not talking about the Internet backbone or servers here. The first, no corporation will do and the government will still pay, the second would still be put in place by any internet provider. I'm talking about "last mile" connection, having to add two to three wires to telephone pole or under the road. A resource that is not really stressed right now, can be replaced with higher capacity wire if needed and would be better served with smaller node, which an open competition would bring.

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11-20-2010, 08:54 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
I always wondered the same thing. Why would someone need that much download if it wasn't for porn or illegal stuff (downloading/sharing music and movies).

anyway, I signed the petition
I would have agreed with you a year ago, but not anymore. More and more television programs and movies are made available online, at HD quality, for free.

People can't even use Netflix properly if they're capped at 30GB.

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11-20-2010, 09:04 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
I would have agreed with you a year ago, but not anymore. More and more television programs and movies are made available online, at HD quality, for free.

People can't even use Netflix properly if they're capped at 30GB.
Exactly not to mention hulu in the states and tv links every where else. (Among many other sites)

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11-20-2010, 09:15 AM
  #69
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I always wondered the same thing. Why would someone need that much download if it wasn't for porn or illegal stuff (downloading/sharing music and movies).

anyway, I signed the petition
WHY?

quote from netflix site:

Fast - movies and TV episodes start playing in seconds. It will depend on the speed of your broadband Internet connection. Movies and TV episodes are streamed over the Internet, so you don't have to wait for them to download. Watching for 1 hour will use approximately 1GB of bandwidth and approximately 2GB an hour if you are watching HD. You have the option to set your account to "no HD" if you'd prefer.

even if you watch only five 1 hour episodes in hd a week, you will be at 10 gigs usage.

just by watching those you're at 40 gigs. where does that leave you for the rest of the activities you do on the net? a family of 4 will watch much more tv than that in a week, and then you have to include everyones emails, youtube, facebook, chatting etc.

are you still wondering?

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11-20-2010, 09:17 AM
  #70
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Watching a HD hockey stream on your computer can be anywhere between 2 and 6 GB per game depending on just how HD it is. Most caps are less than 100 GB per month. Lets say you watch three games a week at the highest possible quality, in a four week month you've used up 72 GB of bandwidth without even browsing the internet, going on youtube, playing Xbox Live, etc etc..

EDIT: I'd also like to point out everything you do on the internet uses bandwidth.. Even talking on MSN or checking your email. It's not just downloading. Every year the internet requires more and more bandwidth to do simple tasks, it's not realistic to keep retarded caps as low as 10-20 GB per month, especially in multiple person households.
good point, i do have centre ice online and watch atleast 3 - 5 games a week of hockey. Thank goodness i'm with Teksavvy, and hopefully they can overrule the crap that we've seen lately.

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Old
11-20-2010, 09:25 AM
  #71
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best part of bell is that they can't even get their own website functioning properly... half the links don't load properly, you login and then you're automatically logged out in seconds, you can't even browse their products properly

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11-20-2010, 10:00 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Yeah, cuz unlimited bandwidth means a lot when you're capped at 30kb/s down most of the time .
They almost never really throttle, I get 600kbps easily at any time of the day (now at this moment per example!).


Ahhhh the joys of 300GB download usage per month for fifty bucks...

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11-20-2010, 10:19 AM
  #73
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They almost never really throttle, I get 600kbps easily at any time of the day (now at this moment per example!).


Ahhhh the joys of 300GB download usage per month for fifty bucks...
Who? Bell?

Because for the last 3-4 weeks they started throttling. I'm with Radioactif and for a while my connection was awesome even in the evening, but Bell started throttling again and I'm stuck at downloading a 50 kbps (better than the 25 kbps I had at first but still a joke).

I don't want a super fast expensive connection with a stupid cap. 5Mb/s is enough for streaming and no cap makes it great. Bell is awful and the CRTC makes it evil. Stupid Canada.

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11-21-2010, 12:16 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
WHY?

quote from netflix site:

Fast - movies and TV episodes start playing in seconds. It will depend on the speed of your broadband Internet connection. Movies and TV episodes are streamed over the Internet, so you don't have to wait for them to download. Watching for 1 hour will use approximately 1GB of bandwidth and approximately 2GB an hour if you are watching HD. You have the option to set your account to "no HD" if you'd prefer.

even if you watch only five 1 hour episodes in hd a week, you will be at 10 gigs usage.

just by watching those you're at 40 gigs. where does that leave you for the rest of the activities you do on the net? a family of 4 will watch much more tv than that in a week, and then you have to include everyones emails, youtube, facebook, chatting etc.

are you still wondering?

My household doesn't have cable anymore. We watch all of our TV online. I watch all of my hockey online. Between my 3 hockey games a week, watching TV shows, movies, we probably have 50 hours a week of netflix, gamecentre, etc.... in our household.

Why be tied to a TV when you can have internet and watch everything in HD when its convenient for you. People are turning away from television at a pretty high rate and relying on the internet at increasing rates. I'd rather pay megavideo $9.99 a month and have access to every single movie and TV show ever made and be able to watch it, then pay a cable company + movie rental company $50+ a month.

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11-21-2010, 02:37 AM
  #75
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That's what happens with oligopolies, they're not actually competing, they're working together.

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