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If you had to choose...

View Poll Results: Who do you move forward with if you had to make a choice?
Kopitar, Brown, Quick and Johnson 53 70.67%
Doughty, Bernier, Schenn and Simmonds 22 29.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-20-2010, 09:09 AM
  #26
xavi4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haik View Post
Kopitar,Brown,Quick are still better to build around than Schenn, Simmonds, and Bernier. Prove me otherwise.
Says you. Sure, they have more experience and ice time to show for that now, but going down the line it could easily change.

I don't see Bernier, Schenn, or Simmonds showing up on the highlight reals just yet.
Last I checked these players are not getting top 6 ice time so you obviously won't be seeing them on the highlights.

Kopitar signed a long term deal. Brown signed a long term deal at below market value. Quick signed for below value. Johnson fired his own agent and I could see him signing a deal well bellow what others are expecting. You can't argue that.
Schenn was also willing to re-structure his bonus clause so DL can have more flexibility going forward. Doughty was a Kings fan growing up, YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT.

Johnson is far above everyone else in this category.
Doughty might have somehting to say about that.

Who do you put on the ice with a minute left in a 1 goal game? Brown and Kopitar are still preferred over Simmonds and Schenn.
Ryan Smyth or Justin Williams would be my choice. But go ahead and keep bringing up irrelevance of Simmonds and Schenn.

Bottom line is you got nothing.
Bottom line is you still don't understand what I'm asking.
Myopic.


Last edited by xavi4life: 11-20-2010 at 09:21 AM.
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Old
11-20-2010, 09:14 AM
  #27
Sydor25
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Option A by far:

Kopitar >>> Schenn
Brown >> Simmonds
Quick > Bernier
Johnson < Doughty

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Old
11-20-2010, 09:26 AM
  #28
xavi4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Option A by far:

Kopitar >>> Schenn
Brown >> Simmonds
Quick > Bernier
Johnson < Doughty
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:05 PM
  #29
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Doughty's group because he's the best player.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:30 PM
  #30
xavi4life
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Doughty's group because he's the best player.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
... All this depends on the needs of the team at the moment. Who else do I have on the team, in what area is the team struggling, is the team poised to make a couple moves to try and win it all this season or am I looking to begin a rebuilding phase or are we just an average team looking to get to the next level?

The only thing I'll qualify my selection with is that I would take Kopitar before Schenn. But as for the other three in group B, I think they're all more promising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
... Word.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:37 PM
  #32
Haik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Says you. Sure, they have more experience and ice time to show for that now, but going down the line it could easily change.
At Schenn's age, Kopitar was the #1 center on this team. Schenn on the other hand can't earn a roster spot over Trevor Lewis and Keven Westgarth. At Simmond's age, Brown had a much bigger impact on the game than Simmonds has now. I'm not even going compare Quick and Bernier until Bernier gets 10 NHL wins under his belt.


Last I checked these players are not getting top 6 ice time so you obviously won't be seeing them on the highlights.See above


Schenn was also willing to re-structure his bonus clause so DL can have more flexibility going forward. Doughty was a Kings fan growing up, YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT.
Schenn had to do it if he had any hope of making the team. That was his gain, not the team's. Doughty might have been a Kings fan growing up but he still hasn't made a commitment to the team...or even getting in shape for that matter.




Doughty might have somehting to say about that.
If he does, he hasn't said it this season.

Ryan Smyth or Justin Williams would be my choice. But go ahead and keep bringing up irrelevance of Simmonds and Schenn.
You're delusional if you put Smyth and Williams on the ice. Did you watch last years playoffs when both of them cost the Kings crucial goals in games?


Bottom line is you still don't understand what I'm asking.
No, I just think you'll never admit to being wrong.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:38 PM
  #33
Haik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
Last I checked Bernier and Quick have the same players in front of them. Stop making excuses.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
between a group of 4 players to build the Kings around, who would you choose:

A) Kopitar, Brown, Quick and Johnson

or

B) Doughty, Bernier, Schenn and Simmonds


Please give your reasons why.
Group A and it's not close. A has 4 proven contributers while B has Doughty and a bunch of question marks.

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Old
11-20-2010, 12:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haik View Post
Last I checked Bernier and Quick have the same players in front of them. Stop making excuses.
... Are you seriously going to contend that the Kings haven't played better defense in front of Quick than they have in front of Bernier? Honestly?

They may be the same players, but they obviously do not play the same way or with the same effectiveness in every game. That's Sports 101 right there, isn't it?

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Old
11-20-2010, 01:02 PM
  #36
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
No.

Kopitar will always be better than Schenn. Brown will always be better than Simmonds. Quick and Bernier are close to a wash. Johnson would be a #1 on a lot of teams.

Doughty doesn't equal a cup without Kopitar, Brown and Johnson. Group B puts the Kings back into another 5 year re-build.

Kings were 4-2 without Doughty. 2-3 without Mitchell and Poni.

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Old
11-20-2010, 02:31 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Brown will always be better than Simmonds.
... Think they're pretty damn comparable, myself.


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Old
11-20-2010, 02:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Think they're pretty damn comparable, myself.
That's because you are a stats guy. Look past the numbers.

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Old
11-20-2010, 02:52 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That's because you are a stats guy. Look past the numbers.
... To what? Skin color? Place of birth? Choice of deodorant? If you've got something that the stats aren't showing - something that automatically makes Brown better than Simmonds will ever be, I'm all ears.

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Old
11-20-2010, 03:00 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... To what? Skin color? Place of birth? Choice of deodorant? If you've got something that the stats aren't showing - something that automatically makes Brown better than Simmonds will ever be, I'm all ears.
That's an impossible question because not everything can be shown with stats and you live and die by stats. It's just my opinion from watching both players since they joined the NHL. Now that Handzus has slowed down this season, Simmonds play has fallen off. Simmonds is now getting PP time and hasn't shown me anything that shows he deserves it.

Brown hits, draws penalties, backs the defense off the blue line with his skating and is the captain of a young team. I don't see Simmonds improving much from what we see today. Perfect player to have and is definitely needed for the Kings to win the Stanley Cup, but if I had to pick between them, I pick Brown every time.

You are free to disagree and I'm sure others do. Brown has always been a love/hate type of player on these boards.

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Old
11-20-2010, 03:15 PM
  #41
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I like Dean's picks..heart & soul kids that know how to win.

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Old
11-20-2010, 03:33 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That's an impossible question because not everything can be shown with stats and you live and die by stats. It's just my opinion from watching both players since they joined the NHL.
... I don't live and die with them, I use the numbers to go along with my own observations. I've been watching this game for a lot of years. It's not a "one or the other" type of thing here.

It just stands to reason that if I'm gonna make a point in black and white, showing the numbers is a very efficient way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Now that Handzus has slowed down this season, Simmonds play has fallen off. Simmonds is now getting PP time and hasn't shown me anything that shows he deserves it.
... I don't agree with this, but then I don't agree that Handzus has slowed down all that much either. Simmonds' PLAY hasn't fallen off as much as his opportunities and his ice time have. And as far as deserving power play time - if you look at those who DIDN'T get time on the PP last season, who earned it more than Simmonds did? Since Frolov was let go, a spot has opened up, and that spot was given to seemingly every undeserving player in the organization before it was recently given to Simmonds. And that, to me, goes against everything this head coach preaches about accountability, paying dues, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Brown hits, draws penalties, backs the defense off the blue line with his skating and is the captain of a young team.
... You're giving Brown credit for something later on in his career. Brown wasn't the captain at 22. The situation just so happened to work out perfectly for Brown to be selected captain when he was. The team was bad, the most senior King (Frolov) wasn't gonna get the C, Kopitar was only 21, Brown had just signed the long-term deal, etc. All the stars aligned for it. Not saying Brown has been a bad captain; he has been a good one, and I love the guy. And there's no question he's a better player than Simmonds is right now, but he's had four more years of NHL experience - as well as more ice time in prime situations. He had the opportunity to succeed, and he has, in his own way. If Simmonds gets that same opportunity, I think he'll succeed too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't see Simmonds improving much from what we see today.
... You honestly believe a player that is 22 years old isn't going to improve much with experience? That's amazing. If Simmonds stays healthy, and again we don't really know if he's even healthy now, which would probably explain his lack of ice time if he wasn't - if he stays healthy he is almost certain to improve. It's not a 100% lock, but the odds are very good that he will.

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Old
11-20-2010, 03:39 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Think they're pretty damn comparable, myself.

Convenient you leave out Brown's season as a 20 year old.

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11-20-2010, 03:42 PM
  #44
xavi4life
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Convenient you leave out Brown's season as a 20 year old.
When he was a Monarch during the lockout year? I could be wrong.

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11-20-2010, 03:42 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Convenient you leave out Brown's season as a 20 year old.
... That was the lockout, Chief.

And beyond that, look at the number of games each man has played in the NHL by that age. They're pretty close.


Last edited by JT Dutch*: 11-20-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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Old
11-20-2010, 03:46 PM
  #46
xavi4life
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This thread wil be fun to re-visit in 3-4 years. You guys can tar and feather me when Kopitar wins the Conn Smythe.

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11-20-2010, 03:53 PM
  #47
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Any group that has Doughty in it is the group I'm picking.

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Old
11-20-2010, 04:08 PM
  #48
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this thread, because here I thought ALL EIGHT of these guys played for the KINGS ... silly me

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Old
11-20-2010, 04:16 PM
  #49
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this thread, because here I thought ALL EIGHT of these guys played for the KINGS ... silly me

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Old
11-20-2010, 04:24 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... I don't live and die with them, I use the numbers to go along with my own observations. I've been watching this game for a lot of years. It's not a "one or the other" type of thing here.

It just stands to reason that if I'm gonna make a point in black and white, showing the numbers is a very efficient way to do it.
I agree with this. How come when someone uses evidence (stats) to support their argument they always seem to be accused of being "stats guys". If your opinion from watching a game, happens to coincide with the stats, then isn't that a good thing?

Having an opinion that runs contrary to stats would be more worrisome to me. Of course there are always exceptions and stats aren't always king.

Anyways I chose option B.

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