Kopitar,Brown,Quick are still better to build around than Schenn, Simmonds, and Bernier. Prove me otherwise. Says you. Sure, they have more experience and ice time to show for that now, but going down the line it could easily change.
I don't see Bernier, Schenn, or Simmonds showing up on the highlight reals just yet. Last I checked these players are not getting top 6 ice time so you obviously won't be seeing them on the highlights.
Kopitar signed a long term deal. Brown signed a long term deal at below market value. Quick signed for below value. Johnson fired his own agent and I could see him signing a deal well bellow what others are expecting. You can't argue that. Schenn was also willing to re-structure his bonus clause so DL can have more flexibility going forward. Doughty was a Kings fan growing up, YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT.
Johnson is far above everyone else in this category. Doughty might have somehting to say about that.
Who do you put on the ice with a minute left in a 1 goal game? Brown and Kopitar are still preferred over Simmonds and Schenn. Ryan Smyth or Justin Williams would be my choice. But go ahead and keep bringing up irrelevance of Simmonds and Schenn.
Bottom line is you got nothing. Bottom line is you still don't understand what I'm asking.
Myopic.
Last edited by Mr Irreverent: 11-20-2010 at 09:21 AM.
Kopitar >>> Schenn
Brown >> Simmonds
Quick > Bernier
Johnson < Doughty
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
... All this depends on the needs of the team at the moment. Who else do I have on the team, in what area is the team struggling, is the team poised to make a couple moves to try and win it all this season or am I looking to begin a rebuilding phase or are we just an average team looking to get to the next level?
The only thing I'll qualify my selection with is that I would take Kopitar before Schenn. But as for the other three in group B, I think they're all more promising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
Says you. Sure, they have more experience and ice time to show for that now, but going down the line it could easily change. At Schenn's age, Kopitar was the #1 center on this team. Schenn on the other hand can't earn a roster spot over Trevor Lewis and Keven Westgarth. At Simmond's age, Brown had a much bigger impact on the game than Simmonds has now. I'm not even going compare Quick and Bernier until Bernier gets 10 NHL wins under his belt.
Last I checked these players are not getting top 6 ice time so you obviously won't be seeing them on the highlights.See above
Schenn was also willing to re-structure his bonus clause so DL can have more flexibility going forward. Doughty was a Kings fan growing up, YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Schenn had to do it if he had any hope of making the team. That was his gain, not the team's. Doughty might have been a Kings fan growing up but he still hasn't made a commitment to the team...or even getting in shape for that matter.
Doughty might have somehting to say about that. If he does, he hasn't said it this season.
Ryan Smyth or Justin Williams would be my choice. But go ahead and keep bringing up irrelevance of Simmonds and Schenn. You're delusional if you put Smyth and Williams on the ice. Did you watch last years playoffs when both of them cost the Kings crucial goals in games?
Bottom line is you still don't understand what I'm asking.
No, I just think you'll never admit to being wrong.
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
Last I checked Bernier and Quick have the same players in front of them. Stop making excuses.
Last I checked Bernier and Quick have the same players in front of them. Stop making excuses.
... Are you seriously going to contend that the Kings haven't played better defense in front of Quick than they have in front of Bernier? Honestly?
They may be the same players, but they obviously do not play the same way or with the same effectiveness in every game. That's Sports 101 right there, isn't it?
Would your opinion change if Schenn resembled Mike Richards in 2-3 years?
Would your opinion change if Simmonds got top 6 minutes including PP time over the next 2 years?
Would your opinion change if Bernier had a decent defense playing in front of him?
No.
Kopitar will always be better than Schenn. Brown will always be better than Simmonds. Quick and Bernier are close to a wash. Johnson would be a #1 on a lot of teams.
Doughty doesn't equal a cup without Kopitar, Brown and Johnson. Group B puts the Kings back into another 5 year re-build.
Kings were 4-2 without Doughty. 2-3 without Mitchell and Poni.
That's because you are a stats guy. Look past the numbers.
... To what? Skin color? Place of birth? Choice of deodorant? If you've got something that the stats aren't showing - something that automatically makes Brown better than Simmonds will ever be, I'm all ears.
... To what? Skin color? Place of birth? Choice of deodorant? If you've got something that the stats aren't showing - something that automatically makes Brown better than Simmonds will ever be, I'm all ears.
That's an impossible question because not everything can be shown with stats and you live and die by stats. It's just my opinion from watching both players since they joined the NHL. Now that Handzus has slowed down this season, Simmonds play has fallen off. Simmonds is now getting PP time and hasn't shown me anything that shows he deserves it.
Brown hits, draws penalties, backs the defense off the blue line with his skating and is the captain of a young team. I don't see Simmonds improving much from what we see today. Perfect player to have and is definitely needed for the Kings to win the Stanley Cup, but if I had to pick between them, I pick Brown every time.
You are free to disagree and I'm sure others do. Brown has always been a love/hate type of player on these boards.
That's an impossible question because not everything can be shown with stats and you live and die by stats. It's just my opinion from watching both players since they joined the NHL.
... I don't live and die with them, I use the numbers to go along with my own observations. I've been watching this game for a lot of years. It's not a "one or the other" type of thing here.
It just stands to reason that if I'm gonna make a point in black and white, showing the numbers is a very efficient way to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
Now that Handzus has slowed down this season, Simmonds play has fallen off. Simmonds is now getting PP time and hasn't shown me anything that shows he deserves it.
... I don't agree with this, but then I don't agree that Handzus has slowed down all that much either. Simmonds' PLAY hasn't fallen off as much as his opportunities and his ice time have. And as far as deserving power play time - if you look at those who DIDN'T get time on the PP last season, who earned it more than Simmonds did? Since Frolov was let go, a spot has opened up, and that spot was given to seemingly every undeserving player in the organization before it was recently given to Simmonds. And that, to me, goes against everything this head coach preaches about accountability, paying dues, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
Brown hits, draws penalties, backs the defense off the blue line with his skating and is the captain of a young team.
... You're giving Brown credit for something later on in his career. Brown wasn't the captain at 22. The situation just so happened to work out perfectly for Brown to be selected captain when he was. The team was bad, the most senior King (Frolov) wasn't gonna get the C, Kopitar was only 21, Brown had just signed the long-term deal, etc. All the stars aligned for it. Not saying Brown has been a bad captain; he has been a good one, and I love the guy. And there's no question he's a better player than Simmonds is right now, but he's had four more years of NHL experience - as well as more ice time in prime situations. He had the opportunity to succeed, and he has, in his own way. If Simmonds gets that same opportunity, I think he'll succeed too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
I don't see Simmonds improving much from what we see today.
... You honestly believe a player that is 22 years old isn't going to improve much with experience? That's amazing. If Simmonds stays healthy, and again we don't really know if he's even healthy now, which would probably explain his lack of ice time if he wasn't - if he stays healthy he is almost certain to improve. It's not a 100% lock, but the odds are very good that he will.
... I don't live and die with them, I use the numbers to go along with my own observations. I've been watching this game for a lot of years. It's not a "one or the other" type of thing here.
It just stands to reason that if I'm gonna make a point in black and white, showing the numbers is a very efficient way to do it.
I agree with this. How come when someone uses evidence (stats) to support their argument they always seem to be accused of being "stats guys". If your opinion from watching a game, happens to coincide with the stats, then isn't that a good thing?
Having an opinion that runs contrary to stats would be more worrisome to me. Of course there are always exceptions and stats aren't always king.
this thread, because here I thought ALL EIGHT of these guys played for the KINGS ... silly me 
