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Zherdev for a Sunday afternoon

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Old
11-21-2010, 04:50 PM
  #26
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I think if all he did was turning puck over, floating, and cherry-picking, as many on this board represent this, it would very well show in 19 games. Since it doesn't, and even quite opposite, I assume it is not that bad.

At least not as bad to keep the guy on the bench who is tied tor 13th in the league ESG despite all the crap he is getting from the coach.
What I find entertaining is that you're focusing on 19 games when Zherdev has 384 games in the league... and exasperated some other coaches as well. Lavi is trying to get him to play a certain way -- a way that Zherdev needs to learn in order to be the player he can be independent of any future with the Flyers.

19 games and limited ice time is squat... the cream rises, and it'll bear out over time.

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11-21-2010, 04:54 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
What I find entertaining is that you're focusing on 19 games when Zherdev has 384 games in the league... and exasperated some other coaches as well. Lavi is trying to get him to play a certain way -- a way that Zherdev needs to learn in order to be the player he can be independent of any future with the Flyers.

19 games and limited ice time is squat... the cream rises, and it'll bear out over time.

actually thats a very good point, and well said sir..


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Old
11-21-2010, 05:03 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
you keep saying this, but Zherdev has been trying on D at least. Also he only has 4 giveaways
Giveaways is an offensive failure stat, not defense.


If Zherdev was trying on D, he wouldn't be getting benched.

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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Well then why did the Flyers sign him? Zherdev is what he is and that isn't going to change. An enigmatic offensive threat when he wants to be. It's pointless trying to alter Zherdev's mechanisms.

So the question becomes one of trying to utilize his Offensive talent.
We were as puzzled as anyone else. Zherdev is the polar opposite of the type of guys the Flyers look for to play for their team.

He will likely face a similar fate as Jan Hlavac once did for us.

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11-21-2010, 05:26 PM
  #29
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Zherdev is trying though, he still sucks at defense.

I dont get why Holmgren signed him, they couldnt have expected to change him

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11-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  #30
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We are not losing games because of Zherdev. We lose games because we take too many lazy penalties and our D looked like a bunch of clowns for te last few games. So we do not need to trade him right now.

But yes, Zherdev is Zherdev. Nothing will change him, Homer knew what he was getting.

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11-21-2010, 05:53 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I agree that Zherdev is trying very hard, its weird Lavi is punishing him so much
Punishing him, or trying to make him a better player that will be of use to us come playoff time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
What I find entertaining is that you're focusing on 19 games when Zherdev has 384 games in the league... and exasperated some other coaches as well. Lavi is trying to get him to play a certain way -- a way that Zherdev needs to learn in order to be the player he can be independent of any future with the Flyers.

19 games and limited ice time is squat... the cream rises, and it'll bear out over time.
Quoted for Truth.

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Old
11-21-2010, 06:02 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Punishing him, or trying to make him a better player that will be of use to us come playoff time?



Quoted for Truth.
Zherdev has almost 400 NHL games, its too late to change him. He is playing hard and trying his best on D(which still sucks).

If Lavi doesnt trust Zherdev now, he certainly wont trust him in the playoffs. If this continues I'd say we will trade him for a 3rd line winger, someone like Chuck Kobasew

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11-21-2010, 06:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Zherdev has almost 400 NHL games, its too late to change him. He is playing hard and trying his best on D(which still sucks).

If Lavi doesnt trust Zherdev now, he certainly wont trust him in the playoffs. If this continues I'd say we will trade him for a 3rd line winger, someone like Chuck Kobasew
Brett Hull disagrees.

D is all about effort and being smart... in short, you can learn it. You may not become a "natural", but you can get your job done.

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11-21-2010, 06:14 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Brett Hull disagrees.

D is all about effort and being smart... in short, you can learn it. You may not become a "natural", but you can get your job done.
Okay well, I think Z has had effort, and his shortcomings are being overblown. I dont think he will ever be a good player on D, but he can be a useful player if we give him some time.

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11-21-2010, 06:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Okay well, I think Z has had effort, and his shortcomings are being overblown. I dont think he will ever be a good player on D, but he can be a useful player if we give him some time.
I think where he gets in trouble is that he makes some aggressive choices in dangerous spots that can be avoided...

Of course, the same can be said of a few of our forwards.

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11-21-2010, 06:18 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think where he gets in trouble is that he makes some aggressive choices in dangerous spots that can be avoided...

Of course, the same can be said of a few of our forwards.
His choices with the puck are strange at times, his turnbacks make no sense.

i actually think Zherdev made his game worse by going to the KHL. befiore he left he was playing Tom Renney Hockey and led that team in scoring. Then he went to the KHL and developed bad habits from a no defense league

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11-21-2010, 06:23 PM
  #37
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I wouldn't say I want to trade Zherdev, but if he was traded I wouldn't really care. I don't expect him back next season so if they can get something for him, why not? However I don't think his value would be very high. I doubt there would be much return so trading him just to trade him is silly.

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Old
11-21-2010, 06:30 PM
  #38
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I really don't care for him. He's still trying to do fancy moves that rarely work at this level. In the KHL maybe they were effective since there's more room on the ice but with NHL games being so close-checking, they're not that effective.

I also wonder if he's pissing Lavi off by taking longer shifts. He's done that a few times.

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Old
11-21-2010, 06:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Zherdev has almost 400 NHL games, its too late to change him. He is playing hard and trying his best on D(which still sucks).

If Lavi doesnt trust Zherdev now, he certainly wont trust him in the playoffs. If this continues I'd say we will trade him for a 3rd line winger, someone like Chuck Kobasew
I disagree with the bold. Effort and defensive responsibility can be learned. Zherdev has talent that cannot be taught, but he lacks things that can be learned.

We can debate all day long about whether or not Zherdev will ever "get it" under Lavi (or any other coach), and your guess is as good as mine (I doubt he gets it, personally, and I stated as much when we signed him).

If he doesn't "get it" before the trade deadline, then maybe we unload him, because he won't be of use to us in the postseason, if that's the case. But he isn't being "punished", he's being taught the right way to play the game. Time will tell if works or not.

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Old
11-21-2010, 06:52 PM
  #40
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I think Z gets paid 2 mil a year, scores almost 30 goals, and plays 3rd or 4th line.. which is fantastic.

He is not a typical Flyers player but they CAN afford to keep him, he DOES provide offensive depth, and they'd be CRAZY STARK RAVING MAD to let him go this season.

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11-21-2010, 07:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I think Z gets paid 2 mil a year, scores almost 30 goals, and plays 3rd or 4th line.. which is fantastic.
I think people don't realize (or don't want to realize) how much he is actually doing offensively in that ridiculosly limited amount of TOI he is given, and without steady linemates. Considering his TOI he is currently more productive than Stamkos, Ovechkin or Crosby (ESG).

If Laviolette is trying to teach him -- fine, but Zherdev may just give up at some point.

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11-21-2010, 07:22 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I really don't care for him. He's still trying to do fancy moves that rarely work at this level. In the KHL maybe they were effective since there's more room on the ice but with NHL games being so close-checking, they're not that effective.

I also wonder if he's pissing Lavi off by taking longer shifts. He's done that a few times.
When a guy knows he's only getting three shifts a game that's gonna happen, lol.

It's sort of a bizarre, frustrating situation. Hopefully Zherdev continues to produce well in his limited minutes and maybe adjust his game to Laviolette's liking. Having a guy like Zherdev certainly insulates you from some of the loss of production if a good forward goes down. I'm guessing sooner or later an injury is going to sort out the issue of him getting some more minutes.

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11-21-2010, 07:26 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I think people don't realize (or don't want to realize) how much he is actually doing offensively in that ridiculosly limited amount of TOI he is given, and without steady linemates. Considering his TOI he is currently more productive than Stamkos, Ovechkin or Crosby (ESG).

If Laviolette is trying to teach him -- fine, but Zherdev may just give up at some point.
Is he consistently out against the other teams best players? I'm not refuting that your stats are factually correct, but they're misleading.

I hope Zherdev doesn't quit on his coach or team mates. It's a lot tougher to stick it out in a situation like his if you aren't close to your team mates though. I wonder if he is tight with anyone on the team or has kind of kept to himself (which is more his M.O.).

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Old
11-21-2010, 07:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
I think Z gets paid 2 mil a year, scores almost 30 goals, and plays 3rd or 4th line.. which is fantastic.

He is not a typical Flyers player but they CAN afford to keep him, he DOES provide offensive depth, and they'd be CRAZY STARK RAVING MAD to let him go this season.
Whoa guy. Zherdev is not even close to essential to this team. He's filler.

And just to be clear i kind of like him. I think he can take on a bigger role but even then he wouldn't be anything to lose sleep over if he left.

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Old
11-21-2010, 08:11 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Cuz it's only been 19 games... O'Donnell has a 0.40 GAON/60 right now, which is utterly ABSURD.

Richards is also among the worst on the team in GAON/60 at even strength right now... think he sucks defensively?
Didn't you use Carters projected goal total earlier this year to justify his existence on this team?
Edit: just saying

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11-21-2010, 08:13 PM
  #46
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It's easier to teach defense and offense. Some guys don't have the skills to be a dynamic offensive player. But if you do, you have twice as many skills to be a dynamic defensive player.

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Old
11-21-2010, 08:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
Didn't you use Carters projected goal total earlier this year to justify his existence on this team?
Edit: just saying
Point is those even strength numbers are out of the norm for Zherdev and playing that good defensively is out of the norm for O'donnel. Carter's goal pacing is not out of the norm for him.

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11-21-2010, 08:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
Didn't you use Carters projected goal total earlier this year to justify his existence on this team?
Edit: just saying
There's a fundamental difference between outlier arguments and "guy is producing just fine" arguments.

Just saying.

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Old
11-21-2010, 10:12 PM
  #49
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I really don'tunderstand the Zherdev hate. I've seriously gotten tired of it. He's been fine since the benching. No one gets on Briere for not being as strong defensively as offensively

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Old
11-21-2010, 10:24 PM
  #50
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I really don'tunderstand the Zherdev hate. I've seriously gotten tired of it. He's been fine since the benching. No one gets on Briere for not being as strong defensively as offensively
I Don't "hate" Zherdev but it is what it is. Briere is also a much better player so it's reasonable that he gets less criticism

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