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Old
11-21-2010, 12:37 PM
  #76
azrok22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Reason its bigger is because organizationally, Stepan and Anisimov are much closer to becoming a #1 center than anyone we have at LW is to becoming a top line LW.

You get Richards, you've got RIchards, Stepan, Anisimov, Drury, Boyle, Christensen down the middle, and only Dubinsky, Avery, Boogaard down the left hand side.
I disagree. I'd say Dubinsky is far closer to being a #1 LW than Stepan or Anisimov are to being #1 Cs.

EDIT: Furthermore, I see Drury (other than taking faceoffs) and Boyle on the wing in an ideal world.

Leaving you with:
Richards
Anisimov
Stepan
one of Christensen/Boyle/Drury

That's a vastly improved center situation.

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11-21-2010, 12:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I disagree. I'd say Dubinsky is far closer to being a #1 LW than Stepan or Anisimov are to being #1 Cs.

EDIT: Furthermore, I see Drury (other than taking faceoffs) and Boyle on the wing in an ideal world.

Leaving you with:
Richards
Anisimov
Stepan
one of Christensen/Boyle/Drury
We cant just keep moving guys to the wing because its convenient. Drury has never played well on the wing.

You're right about Dubinsky. But Avery is not a #2 LWer. Not even close. I wouldn't mind, if Boyle keeps playing this way, having him potentially in a third line role next year. He, Anisimov, and Stepan are all young kids who are getting better. I dont know why we would sign a long term UFA that would block advancement in our strongest organizational area.

Slightly O.T., but that Burns dman was really, really good for Minny. Reminded me of a more physical Staal, with a RHS. I feel like he and Staal would be an awesome pairing.

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11-21-2010, 12:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
On what planet are lack of a top line LW and RW depth bigger problems than lack of a #1 center?

This team's biggest needs, in order, are a #1 center and a #1 right-side defenseman. We have Kreider, Thomas, MZA coming soon on the wings.

And yes, I'd definitely trade Rozsival and live with state of our defense to get Richards. That's not even a consideration. Mike Sauer is not a fluke. Valentenko is coming. If we don't trade for Richards and just sign him, we won't have to give up McDonagh. If your top line includes Richards and Gaborik, and your second line is Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan, you have an excellent top two lines, plus all our great bottom six players. You have Lundqvist. You don't need to have the best defense if your goaltender and forwards are both excellent, which would be the case if we had Richards.

Gaborik and Lundqvist are both in their primes now. The team has to take the next step soon. This semi-rebuild can't go on forever. You need a playmaker to win in this league, and Richards is one of the best in the world.
Yup...there is no greater need in this organization than a *1 center. 1st line LW? You're getting 1st line production from Dubi and Kreider, Grachev and Werek provide organizational depth. RW? Again, Callahan is giving you 2nd line production, and you've got MZA and Thomas for depth. I don't see either of those issues outweighing the #1 center issue.

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11-21-2010, 12:55 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We cant just keep moving guys to the wing because its convenient. Drury has never played well on the wing.

You're right about Dubinsky. But Avery is not a #2 LWer. Not even close. I wouldn't mind, if Boyle keeps playing this way, having him potentially in a third line role next year. He, Anisimov, and Stepan are all young kids who are getting better. I dont know why we would sign a long term UFA that would block advancement in our strongest organizational area.

Slightly O.T., but that Burns dman was really, really good for Minny. Reminded me of a more physical Staal, with a RHS. I feel like he and Staal would be an awesome pairing.
At this point, expecting any significant even-strength production from Drury is, quite frankly, a pipe dream. Drury may not have performed well on the wing, but he hasn't exactly lit it up at center lately either. If Drury's playing center, it should be on the fourth line. If he's playing wing, perhaps he's on the third line, but he should still be a bottom six player.

I would be quite content buying Drury out during this offseason if it means we're able to bring in Richards.

For this year, Prospal or Frolov are the second top six LW with Dubinsky. If Kreider/Grachev/MZA (if he moves from RW) aren't ready to grab a second/third line LW spot next year, I expect there to be at least one bargain signing UFA available.

I'm not 100% sold that Richards is our answer, but he'd definitely be a significant upgrade.

I'm also glad to see Burns get his career back "on track" after the injuries, but I stay far away from him simply based on his concussion history. Especially for a player that's as physical as Burns, concussions are just to big a flag for me.

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11-21-2010, 01:32 PM
  #80
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I just wish people could heap praise on Stepan and Anisimov without making the leap that they are guaranteed first line centers. I am a huge fan of both (my next two jerseys are going to be Callahan and Anisimov) but putting all your eggs in that basket is a mistake. If you want to say that you're looking at a couple of quality second line centers in the future, then that's a reasonable expectation. More than that, and it's quite a gamble. If neither of them reaches that level, then you're screwed. And if you sign Richards and one of them does, then great...you can trade one of them to fill another hole, like on the blueline.

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11-21-2010, 03:44 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I just wish people could heap praise on Stepan and Anisimov without making the leap that they are guaranteed first line centers. I am a huge fan of both (my next two jerseys are going to be Callahan and Anisimov) but putting all your eggs in that basket is a mistake. If you want to say that you're looking at a couple of quality second line centers in the future, then that's a reasonable expectation. More than that, and it's quite a gamble. If neither of them reaches that level, then you're screwed. And if you sign Richards and one of them does, then great...you can trade one of them to fill another hole, like on the blueline.
So Anisimov or Stepan go on to become the next Doug Weight and a 31 year old Brad Richards becomes Esa Tikkanen.

I would rather be screwed with one or both of the youngins not making it rather than being stuck with an aging big money center.

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11-21-2010, 04:01 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We cant just keep moving guys to the wing because its convenient. Drury has never played well on the wing.

You're right about Dubinsky. But Avery is not a #2 LWer. Not even close. I wouldn't mind, if Boyle keeps playing this way, having him potentially in a third line role next year. He, Anisimov, and Stepan are all young kids who are getting better. I dont know why we would sign a long term UFA that would block advancement in our strongest organizational area.

Slightly O.T., but that Burns dman was really, really good for Minny. Reminded me of a more physical Staal, with a RHS. I feel like he and Staal would be an awesome pairing.
hes a UFA after 2011-12 when Drury, Rozi, etc come off the books.

Hes got a history of concussions though.

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11-21-2010, 04:07 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I just wish people could heap praise on Stepan and Anisimov without making the leap that they are guaranteed first line centers. I am a huge fan of both (my next two jerseys are going to be Callahan and Anisimov) but putting all your eggs in that basket is a mistake. If you want to say that you're looking at a couple of quality second line centers in the future, then that's a reasonable expectation. More than that, and it's quite a gamble. If neither of them reaches that level, then you're screwed. And if you sign Richards and one of them does, then great...you can trade one of them to fill another hole, like on the blueline.
Great post.. it is just tough to predict what a prospect with become consistently at the NHL level. If you have a chance to get Brad Richards you have to look into this instead of gambling/hoping that the projected prospects develop to that level.

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11-21-2010, 04:36 PM
  #84
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I think they got to make a run at Richards in the summer. Trade Rozy and or buyout Drury. This team really need 1 more elite offensive player in there top 6. With Richards-Anisimov-Stepan-Boyle rangers would look real strong down the middle.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik would make a great first line.

Then rangers would hope either MZA or Grachev most likely MZA can play 2nd line left wing next year.

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11-21-2010, 05:20 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msg View Post
I think they got to make a run at Richards in the summer. Trade Rozy and or buyout Drury. This team really need 1 more elite offensive player in there top 6. With Richards-Anisimov-Stepan-Boyle rangers would look real strong down the middle.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik would make a great first line.

Then rangers would hope either MZA or Grachev most likely MZA can play 2nd line left wing next year.
Just sayin', it is theoretically possible:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.250m) / Brad Richards ($6.500m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.800m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.200m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Evgeny Grachev ($0.816m)
Dale Weise ($0.700m) / Brian Boyle ($1.125m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m) / Chris Drury ($3.716m)

DEFENSEMEN
Michal Rozsival ($5.000m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.950m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,683,334; BONUSES: $1,225,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $941,666

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11-21-2010, 09:46 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Just sayin', it is theoretically possible:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,683,334; BONUSES: $1,225,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $941,666
Also, by all accounts, the cap will be going up this summer. That will certainly help matters.

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11-21-2010, 11:39 PM
  #87
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But also, Redden's cap hit would count during the summer.

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Old
11-21-2010, 11:42 PM
  #88
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But also, Redden's cap hit would count during the summer.
Redden counts for pretty much the exact 10%.

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11-22-2010, 12:40 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Redden counts for pretty much the exact 10%.
I probably should have clarified, but this is what I meant when I wrote that the cap will be going up and it will help. If the cap does indeed go up enough to where the summer excess covers Redden's hit, any issues would be severely lessened.

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11-22-2010, 06:25 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Just sayin', it is theoretically possible:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.250m) / Brad Richards ($6.500m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.800m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.200m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Evgeny Grachev ($0.816m)
Dale Weise ($0.700m) / Brian Boyle ($1.125m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m) / Chris Drury ($3.716m)

DEFENSEMEN
Michal Rozsival ($5.000m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.950m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,683,334; BONUSES: $1,225,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $941,666
Richards is taking a $1.3 million pay cut?

There is no bonus cushion for 2011-12.

Buy out Drury?

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11-22-2010, 06:31 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Richards is taking a $1.3 million pay cut?

There is no bonus cushion for 2011-12.

Buy out Drury?
I don't have time to go through the Dallas board to find the quotes this morning, but Richards has indicated at least two things about his free agency in the past few months.

1) Richards doesn't want as high a cap hit as his current deal, because the large cap hit forced him out of Tampa Bay (where he was apparently quite happy). No indication how low he's willing to go, but it appears that he'd rather have security (long term) than high cap hit. That is as much a bad thing as a good thing.

2) Regarding the security of a deal, he mentions "6 or 7 years" in the same place as a nice thing.

EDIT: Yes, buy out Drury, imo. You save $3.33m in 2011-2012 at the cost of $1.67m in 2012-2013 (when Rozi will be coming off the books). Well worth it to free up 3.33 in 2011-2012, imo. It's entirely possible that 2012-2013 ends up a lockout, too (hopefully not).

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11-22-2010, 06:41 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
CBA,CBA,CBA

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...rumors-dubious

Very smart by LA but you would think Doughty is the one guy worth anything you pay him. Not a blank check.

Sather didn't go crazy in the summers of 2003 and 2004 before the CBA expired in September 2004. 1 year deal for Martin Rucinsky and then 3 years plus an option for Michael Nylander which ended up being Sather's best free agent signing as Rangers czar. The Rangers had a handful of players signed heading into the lockout.

I read on Friday afternoon Sather was on the Rangers trip. Dubinsky's agent Kurt Overhardt is based in Denver. Agents usually attend games played in by their clients.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...5?showAll=true

Mike Sauer's agent Ben Hankinson is based on Minnesota and he already tweeted about being at the game last night.
So whats your take on the contracts Zetteberg, Datsyuk and Mike Richards have signed lately? They suck too?

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11-22-2010, 06:48 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I don't have time to go through the Dallas board to find the quotes this morning, but Richards has indicated at least two things about his free agency in the past few months.

1) Richards doesn't want as high a cap hit as his current deal, because the large cap hit forced him out of Tampa Bay (where he was apparently quite happy). No indication how low he's willing to go, but it appears that he'd rather have security (long term) than high cap hit. That is as much a bad thing as a good thing.

2) Regarding the security of a deal, he mentions "6 or 7 years" in the same place as a nice thing.

EDIT: Yes, buy out Drury, imo. You save $3.33m in 2011-2012 at the cost of $1.67m in 2012-2013 (when Rozi will be coming off the books). Well worth it to free up 3.33 in 2011-2012, imo. It's entirely possible that 2012-2013 ends up a lockout, too (hopefully not).
What does his agent say?

He also indicated this a few days ago

Quote:
For Richards, getting healthy again is one reason why he is back to scoring above a point-a-game clip for the second year in a row. But the other factor, he says, is just the passage of time - time he needed to adjust to his new surroundings, after being dug in with the Lightning for the first seven years of his career, and playing there with Vincent Lecavalier, a friend all the way back to their junior days together.

“A couple of years there were really tough,” acknowledged Richards. “The change is what really got to me. It was a lot tougher leaving than I thought it would be. I was pretty engrained over there. You got your best friends and winning a championship, so ...

“But it helps getting a little stability with linemates and structure. It’s a lot different feel than last year. We’re getting our chances to win games.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...1806327/page2/

So it took him two years to be comfortable in Dallas. There won't be a similar adjustment period in NY. Will he go into another funk?

Quote:
"I'm not thinking about playing anywhere else," he said. "I'm very happy in Dallas. It's a great city to play in and I love the youthful energy we have this year with guys like (James) Neal and (Jamie) Benn and Loui (Eriksson). This is where my focus is."
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/10/14/b...-mcguire-on-5/

Richards will be 31. 6-7 years. You really think it's smart to dish out that term for a 31 year old player?

Rangers have never bought out player in a regular buyout.

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11-22-2010, 06:53 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
So whats your take on the contracts Zetteberg, Datsyuk and Mike Richards have signed lately? They suck too?
Were they 31 years old?

They are not mercenaries.

They re-signed with their teams.

Richards is not a Ranger.

Rangers talk about home grown players and pride in the sweater for a reason.

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11-22-2010, 06:56 AM
  #95
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I know people will go all "1st" / "2nd" / "3rd" line on me now, but this is how I envision that you build a contender with the team we have.

1st line X-X-X
2nd line Grachev-Stephan-Gaborik
3rd line Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
4th line X-X-X
MDZ-X
Staal-Rozi
Sauer-Girardi

Forwards:
-I think we lack a (first) line. A line that can lead. Come PO time, come not one or two rounds, but maybe three rounds into a SC race -- we need mojo on the lineup.

People talk about how Kova wouldn't have been a good signing et c. I dissagree. Imagine this lineup next year for example -- anyone don't think it would be pretty decent?

Kova-Boyle-MZA
Grachev-Stephan-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Callahan
Avery-Drury-Prust


That lineup would have been okey by me. Thats a lineup that you contend with. Thats a lineup that could, a la Tortorella style, keep going for 82 games and a full PO run.

Now, that won't happend. And as to the lines, we can't beat the Caps or Pens by getting a better 1st line. But could they match a lineup like that? Three very good lines -- like Philly have for example.

I've mentioned Lecavalier in the past, not that he will happened either, but
Drury-Lecav-MZA
Grachev-Step-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Cally
Avery-Boyle-Prust
would also give us that depth and firepower.

Who else can we get?

And we don't need to get anyone now, or even next year. There is no extreme hurry. But if we ever want to contend -- we need to another pice that can carry a heavy load.

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11-22-2010, 07:13 AM
  #96
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FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.250m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brooks Laich ($3.750m) / Artem Anisimov ($2.500m) / Scottie Upshall ($2.800m)
Chris Kreider ($0.900m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.200m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Ian White ($3.000m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,825,000; BONUSES: $637,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,212,500

This is what I'd like to see. Trade Rosi at the draft for picks/prospects. Sign White/Upshall/Laich to shorter term deals.

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11-22-2010, 07:13 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I know people will go all "1st" / "2nd" / "3rd" line on me now, but this is how I envision that you build a contender with the team we have.

1st line X-X-X
2nd line Grachev-Stephan-Gaborik
3rd line Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
4th line X-X-X
MDZ-X
Staal-Rozi
Sauer-Girardi

Forwards:
-I think we lack a (first) line. A line that can lead. Come PO time, come not one or two rounds, but maybe three rounds into a SC race -- we need mojo on the lineup.

People talk about how Kova wouldn't have been a good signing et c. I dissagree. Imagine this lineup next year for example -- anyone don't think it would be pretty decent?

Kova-Boyle-MZA
Grachev-Stephan-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Callahan
Avery-Drury-Prust


That lineup would have been okey by me. Thats a lineup that you contend with. Thats a lineup that could, a la Tortorella style, keep going for 82 games and a full PO run.

Now, that won't happend. And as to the lines, we can't beat the Caps or Pens by getting a better 1st line. But could they match a lineup like that? Three very good lines -- like Philly have for example.

I've mentioned Lecavalier in the past, not that he will happened either, but
Drury-Lecav-MZA
Grachev-Step-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Cally
Avery-Boyle-Prust
would also give us that depth and firepower.

Who else can we get?

And we don't need to get anyone now, or even next year. There is no extreme hurry. But if we ever want to contend -- we need to another pice that can carry a heavy load.
Any contract given to Richards will be better than Lecavalier's current deal.

Quote:
Richards will be 31. 6-7 years. You really think it's smart to dish out that term for a 31 year old player?
I'm honestly not sure.

As I said, I certainly kick the tires.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:02 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
So it took him two years to be comfortable in Dallas. There won't be a similar adjustment period in NY. Will he go into another funk?
2007-08: 12 games with the Stars, 11 points following the trade from Tampa Bay in the middle of the season. 15 points in 18 playoff games.

2008-09: 48 points in injury-shortened 56 game season.

2009-10: 91 points in 80 games.

2010-11: 24 points in 18 games.

What funk, exactly, do you see here?

Quote:
Richards will be 31. 6-7 years. You really think it's smart to dish out that term for a 31 year old player?
Richards is a player who relies on his brains and his puckhandling skills. Is he particulary strong? No. Is he particularly fast? No. Playmaking centers can sustain their level of play for a lot longer than grinders, power forwards, or speedsters. There is no reason to believe that Richards can't be an elite, PPG player until the age of 35 or 36. Will he decline after that? Sure. Will he be overpaid? Sure. He'll still be a solid player who will impact games offensively. If you manage your team correctly, you can have one or two overpaid guys for a few years. The problem is when you have 3 or 4, and you have them for 4 or 5 years.

Daniel Alfreddson is 37 years old. Is he washed up?

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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Richards is not a Ranger.

Rangers talk about home grown players and pride in the sweater for a reason.
What pride is that? 1 championship in the last 70 years? The neverending line of overpaid role players that our young players broke into the league with? Or the fact that none of our vaunted youth is anywhere near as good as Richards is?

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11-22-2010, 03:35 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
2007-08: 12 games with the Stars, 11 points following the trade from Tampa Bay in the middle of the season. 15 points in 18 playoff games.

2008-09: 48 points in injury-shortened 56 game season.

2009-10: 91 points in 80 games.

2010-11: 24 points in 18 games.

What funk, exactly, do you see here?
I have to admit that I have some honest concern about Richards.

Richards is clutch and I would of course love to have him.

You know, at the same time, when you see Dallas play -- do they look better when Richards hit the ice? Do they own the play?

I've many times seen Dallas play, and Tampa too, and you don't even notice him for 60 minutes.

Richards is doing the right things all the time. He is clutch. He have a very good shot. His confidence is extremely good right now. But you know, he aint that talented.

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11-22-2010, 05:01 PM
  #100
Screw You Rick Nash
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Instead of buying out Drury's contract, why don't we trade him to a team like Atlanta or another one of those salary floor teams so they can buy him out? I know Drury has a no trade clause, but the Rangers can tell him that we are going to buy out his contract unless he gets traded.

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