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Old
11-21-2010, 10:50 PM
  #26
uiCk
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one thinking exactly the same.
Eller is as good (as invisible) as Maxwell.
yea, good old conspiracies. just like price is still here because he was drafted 5th overall, right?

its called player development, and Eller, unlike DD, actually has a high exploitable ceiling, and his defensive skills are above par, same goes with his physical play.

Some players are worth developing, some not so much.

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Old
11-21-2010, 11:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
Of course Pyatt is faster, it's his strongest point and it's why he's so great on the PK. Don't discredit DD's speed though because it's one of the big reasons he's managed a pro career at all. The difference between them is that Desharnais is really crafty offensively. He has a great hockey IQ and he'll set up plays and crash the net.

You make it seem as if I was bashing Pyatt but I wasn't, I like him as a player but at this point why would it hurt to get DD in to try a few games in his place? He could fill in for him on the PK (he plays PK with the dogs) and contribute much more offensively. We're not talking about benching first line players, there's no harm in switchin' around guys who are going to play under 10 minutes a game.
Someone else said this, but I'll repeat it. Pyatt is one of the top 2 penalty killers on the best PK in the league. You casually suggest that a guy in his 4th year in the minors and who plays some PK down there can simply step in to the big leagues and replace our specialist, not because our top gun is injured, but just "to get the minor leaguer in for a few games".

That's as weird as saying that Steven Stamkos could be replaced on the PP by Aaron Palushaj since Palushaj plays PP in the AHL, the same role that Stamkos has in the NHL. What could it hurt to have Palushaj get in a few games?

And before you object to the comparison, let me remind you that the PK is JUST AS IMPORTANT as the PP. That's a logical truth, two sides of the same coin.

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Old
11-22-2010, 12:22 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
Of course Pyatt is faster, it's his strongest point and it's why he's so great on the PK. Don't discredit DD's speed though because it's one of the big reasons he's managed a pro career at all. The difference between them is that Desharnais is really crafty offensively. He has a great hockey IQ and he'll set up plays and crash the net.

You make it seem as if I was bashing Pyatt but I wasn't, I like him as a player but at this point why would it hurt to get DD in to try a few games in his place? He could fill in for him on the PK (he plays PK with the dogs) and contribute much more offensively. We're not talking about benching first line players, there's no harm in switchin' around guys who are going to play under 10 minutes a game.
DD is knocked off the puck like a child playing against men at the AHL level, I just cant see him surviving in the NHL at all, he isnt explosive enough on skates or powerful enough to compensate for his lack of size either..

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Old
11-22-2010, 02:20 AM
  #29
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I think the best bet for Desharnais would be similar to Tom Pyatt. 4th line specialist who gets massive PP minutes. I think he could really produce there because of his amazing vision. Keep his ES minutes lower and you might have something great.

I still have high hopes for Desharnais, don't get me wrong. But I'd be happy even if we tried that for a few games in place of Gomez (on the PP, not the lineup).

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Old
11-22-2010, 02:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
And get scored on on the PK, while putting up the same amount of goals as now? Seems like a good move.
more like use someone else who plays just as good on PK (lapierre?) and score more goals.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 11-22-2010 at 02:37 AM.
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Old
11-22-2010, 05:29 AM
  #31
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Everyone calling for callups that require us to sit a veteran need to understand it isn't going to happen. Guys like Desharnais, Weber, Maxwell, MaxPac, Palushaj, etc. at this point, for THIS YEAR, are just injury depth. None of them will be called up before our playoff push and make an impact like PK did. If they get called up, its because one of our top 16 NHL forwards got hurt. Which can certainly happen (will probably happen, at some point) and when it does we can debate which AHL'er deserves the shot first.

Until then, we'll just have to settle for winning games at both levels.

Edit: and even then, if the injury is really serious, given that we are very much a contender, PG might just make a trade to replace the injured guy.

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Old
11-22-2010, 05:32 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
more like use someone else who plays just as good on PK (lapierre?) and score more goals.
Lapierre is not just as good on the PK as Pyatt.

There definitely seems to be a fallacy around here that any player, if they've played some PK minutes in their careers, can step in and be an excellent PK'er. Guys like Pyatt and Halpern get NO LOVE, NO RESPECT. Its just as much a talent as being a good shooter, or good passer, etc. Pyatt has earned his PK minutes, is the top PK'er on the top PK in the NHL. Would you replace the best shooter on the team with Lapierre, who could 'play just as good as a shooter'?

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Old
11-22-2010, 06:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
more like use someone else who plays just as good on PK (lapierre?) and score more goals.
I think that if Lapierre is as good as Pyatt on the PK, he would play. Yet Martin prefers to play Moen, Gionta, Gomez, Plekanec, Halpern, and even Eller sometimes over Lapierre.

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:53 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by HabsoluteFate View Post
Eller can go back down to the minors...the only reason he's still here is because he was supposed to be the main piece for Halak.

i would like to see Desharnais on the 2nd line. I heard not long ago that montreal has a few players that next year if brought down to the minors can be taken off waivers...i don't want to lose him that way without a real chance first

they are going to screw up Eller's career the way he's handled...but hey its not like we've never seen this before. If his upside is that much then learn from keeping Pk Subban in the minors and have him play and get his confidence back.

i still cant believe some people thought Eller would end up with more points than Subban and be a candidate for rookie of the year...i didn't see it but then again i didnt see him being as bad as he's been offensively....going down to the minors is not a bad long term plan
You do realize if Eller was in Hamilton all season he'd likely easily have equivalent or more points than Desharnais right now right? Eller is NHL ready, no amount of sending him to the AHL is going to make him more ready. Playing him in a top 6 role or even top 9 with decent ice time will make him more ready.

Desharnais isn't close to as ready as Eller is and he's also lacking the size, this is something crucial for a player who is borderline ready. At the end of the day Eller is much bigger and put up Desharnais like numbers in the AHL with basically nobody to play with but himself. Desharnais is on a solid Bulldogs roster with tons of talent across the board, he better be playing well is all I can say. Put Desharnais in Ellers position in the AHL last year and I have my doubts he puts up good numbers.

I'm not trying to say Desharnais is a talentless hack, far from it, he's actually a solid player who imo will be a top 9 player in the NHL, maybe due to his lack of size a 3rd liner rather than 2nd line. But to say send Eller down to bring up this guy is just plain laughable. Take away one of our needs (size) and replace it with something we already have (small skilled forward) and on top of that one that isn't even as close to NHL ready as the guy already addressing a need.

Plus considering who Eller has played with in his limited ice time he's looked good and he's looked better and better as time has gone on. JM is a defense first kind of guy. This is why you don't see a lot of Eller in top 6 roles or being given a lot of minutes, this is why he has a short leash as well. Anyone whose saying he isn't being developed properly needs to take a long hard look at how Tomas Plekanec and several other players have been developed. He isn't being ruined by JM, they're just working on other aspects of his game right now.

Desharnais has all the tools but unless he's going to grow 5 inches and put on some weight to boot, there isn't much of his game they can realistically work on right now outside of giving him a top 6 role on the team. If they do that who doesn't play then?

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:57 AM
  #35
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Desharnais is an AHL start and will have a very succesful and long career in that league. He will never play in the NHL.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
And get scored on on the PK, while putting up the same amount of goals as now? Seems like a good move.
Pyatt is not the reason for our PK success, not even close. We have at least 5 guys on this team who can do as good a job as Pyatt can on the PK. He's our worst board player and that can be costly against the Flyers. I'm not saying we should call up DD, just saying that Pyatt is replaceable.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:52 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Pyatt is not the reason for our PK success, not even close. We have at least 5 guys on this team who can do as good a job as Pyatt can on the PK. He's our worst board player and that can be costly against the Flyers. I'm not saying we should call up DD, just saying that Pyatt is replaceable.
That having been said someone else would need to pick up the slack if Pyatt were to not play. Obviously if it ain't broke don't fix it. The one night we scratched Pyatt also turned out to be our worst game on the PK. Now I'm not a stats guy and personally I don't believe stats paint a one hundred percent accurate picture. In this case though I will say at least the stats are leaning towards him being important. Plus if putting someone else in either means our PK becomes worse or that somebody else has to pick up the slack on our PK, that's the last thing our team wants/needs.

Pyatt is severely underrated anyways though. He isn't a top 9 player but he's a great 4th liner with a huge PK upside. He's the kind of player you try to retain at a cheap price for a couple years not ostracize from the team by benching him in place of an AHLer who likely can't do better.

And I don't believe Desharnais would be putting up the points he is in the AHL on the 4th line, if Eller can't who has much more size I highly doubt Desharnais can. He would need to be in our top 6 to even be effective and with that said how does it in anyway help our team or effect Pyatt if we do that? If anything it would have to be Eller who sits which at this point would just be plain ********.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Pyatt is not the reason for our PK success, not even close. We have at least 5 guys on this team who can do as good a job as Pyatt can on the PK. He's our worst board player and that can be costly against the Flyers. I'm not saying we should call up DD, just saying that Pyatt is replaceable.
I agree with this.

I think he's a solid PKer but he's by no means the reason why our PK has been successful. He's not a top-3 PK guy in the league because he's not big enough. He's quick and he works hard but he's not a PK superstar.

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Old
11-22-2010, 11:08 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
Desharnais is an AHL start and will have a very succesful and long career in that league. He will never play in the NHL.
Are you an expert. ?

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11-22-2010, 11:30 AM
  #40
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Are you an expert. ?
No. The experts are the ones who refuse to call up Desharnais. I am willing to bet that they have their reasons.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:21 PM
  #41
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gahh... so tired of hearing about that guy. he's a midget... he wont grow any more... just leave it.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:25 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
It's difficult to tell what games you watch.

Desharnais will ABSOLUTELY NOT bring the same defensive game as Pyatt. Pyatt was a TWO-time WJC champion, while Desharnais went undrafted. Not many players play on Team Canada at 18, usually just the top draft choices. But Pyatt was so strong defensively that he made the squad and did very well, too.

If you think Desharnais is SO FAST, then Pyatt is lightning. Desharnais' big problem is PRECISELY that he is NOT fast enough to make up for his incredible lack of size.

Will Desharnais be able to bring NHL level offence? I doubt it, but here I could be wrong. He might be another Grabovski, a player who can play 2nd line center on a WEAK team.

Not only do I prefer Pyatt to Desharnais (by a mile), but I'm not sure Desharnais can even generate more offence than Boyd or Darche at the NHL level.
+1.

Hell, I wish upon a star that Desharnais is the second coming of Lafleur, but NONE of the signs have pointed to that.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:39 PM
  #43
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I think we definately have room for a player who can score goals. If there isn't room then a team would make some. I'm just not sure DD is the player to call up. Max Pac has been lighting it up and if the position and physical player we actually need in our line up. We can easily put him on Gomez's line to round off the top 6.

Cammy Plx Gio
Kosty Gomez Max
or
Cammy Plx Max
Kosty Gomez Gio
Darche Halpern Pouliot
Moen Eller Pyatt

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Old
11-23-2010, 04:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
No. The experts are the ones who refuse to call up Desharnais. I am willing to bet that they have their reasons.
The same experts that thought Mark Streit, Guillaume Latendresse, Jaroslav Halak, Mike Ribeiro and Matt D'Agostini weren't good enough for them? I get your point, but let's not act like the organization have never made a judgment mistake in the past... it's far from the truth.

I also understand players left for other reasons, like lack of work ethic, but point is still.

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Old
11-23-2010, 04:42 PM
  #45
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Le Baron just said on '' le 4 a 7'' that Desharnais is better then Eller atm and that it's not even close. I guess it has to be true.

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Old
11-23-2010, 05:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
The same experts that thought Mark Streit, Guillaume Latendresse, Jaroslav Halak, Mike Ribeiro and Matt D'Agostini weren't good enough for them? I get your point, but let's not act like the organization have never made a judgment mistake in the past... it's far from the truth.

I also understand players left for other reasons, like lack of work ethic, but point is still.
experts also left Briere on waivers

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Old
11-23-2010, 05:56 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
The same experts that thought Mark Streit, Guillaume Latendresse, Jaroslav Halak, Mike Ribeiro and Matt D'Agostini weren't good enough for them? I get your point, but let's not act like the organization have never made a judgment mistake in the past... it's far from the truth.

I also understand players left for other reasons, like lack of work ethic, but point is still.
Worst argument ever involving those players. Ribeiro wasnt mature at that age and was a locker room cancer, probly even Koivu asked the direction to trade him.

Latendresse wasnt developping into a good player because of Mismanagement and He was treated like a superstar by the media, which turned is mind into a ''I'm so good I need to play in the first 2 lines to be good'' instead of working is way into those lines.

Matt D'agostini wasnt doing nothing here, and he's been given is chance, not because he's doing good in st-louis that we made a judgement mistake, the kid just didnt had confidence anymore here and the change of scenery helped him a lot.

AND the case of Jaro Halak. If we signed Halak, we had to let go either Price or Plekanec. If you ask me, I take Price and Plekanec ANY DAY of the week beside Halak. He was good for us, time to move on.

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Old
11-23-2010, 06:29 PM
  #48
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Antichambre propaganda doing its job.

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Old
11-23-2010, 07:55 PM
  #49
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I think the Habs should call him up because he can really make something out of nothing.
let him be the mascot

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11-23-2010, 07:59 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by suezane carpenter View Post
I think the Habs should call him up because he can really make something out of nothing.
Yes add one more little one to the mix...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
The same experts that thought Mark Streit, Guillaume Latendresse, Jaroslav Halak, Mike Ribeiro and Matt D'Agostini weren't good enough for them? I get your point, but let's not act like the organization have never made a judgment mistake in the past... it's far from the truth.

I also understand players left for other reasons, like lack of work ethic, but point is still.
The team has never been better since they left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
I like what Pyatt brings to the team, he hustles and he's solid defensively, but I think that Desharnais could bring the same defensive game as Pyatt and he would be strong offensively too.

Even when he had a poor game today vs. the Marlies he still stood out as a player who's much faster and more dedicated to every play than everyone else on the ice.
But Pyatt as a one way, does he?

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