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Game 20: Vancouver Canucks vs Phoenix Coyotes (6pm, SPAC)

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Old
11-22-2010, 05:02 AM
  #501
The Optimist
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This team has Hawkphobia. They always get owned by them despite saying that they look forward to playing with the Hawks.
Some teams just don't match up well against other teams (take a look at our record vs. San Jose. The only difference is, we haven't had to face them twice in a row in the playoffs ...).

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11-22-2010, 08:39 AM
  #502
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The fourth line going into the season isn't the fourth line we have now, due to injuries to Bolduc and Desbiens. Bolduc saw one game, and Desbiens was hitting and fighting, isn't that what you want from a fourth line guy?
1. Bolduc is always injured. That's like relying on Salo to be healthy.

2. Desbiens was awful. The combination of Desbiens and Glass on the ice at the same time might have been the worst combination of players I've seen on the ice for the Canucks in... I can't even tell you. Donald Brashear would do more.

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11-22-2010, 08:44 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by WestCoastMetal View Post

Honestly, to me the only real difference between this game and any of the games on our winning streak was we didn't get a power play. The way we played shorthanded (very good) and 5-on-5 (erratic as hell, overall confused and disjointed looking) was exactly the same as it's been all season. More often than not though, we've been able to pull out wins with some timely power play goals. If we don't score on the power play this is the result.
I agree. The Canucks have looked like a disorganized, poorly coached team for most of the season. It's like they spent all this energy on finding a "new style" for Luongo and then forgot to fix the shoddy defense that led to so many of his problems last year.

Luongo has the same problem Kiprusoff has: a team that doesn't know how to play in front of him. The only difference is the Canucks have a much better team than the Flames, so at some point you'd think they might figure it out.

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11-22-2010, 10:53 AM
  #504
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A better effort than the previous night, although that should never be a tall order.

Again, IMO, two things need to happen to the top six: The Twins need to be told to simplify their game and get pucks to the net, and Raymond needs to be sat to allow his injury to heal. This is not the playoffs; he does not need to play through the pain.

Samuelsson looked completely awful as the Twins' wingman last night. Many a golden pass was flubbed in the slot or lost in his feet. If neither he or Burrows is working there, bring Tambellini back up. He didn't seem to have a problem burying some of their passes.

I actually thought the fourth line was pretty decent last night. Glass was hustling and Schaefer made some good plays at both ES and on the PK. He is light years ahead of Rypien as a player. If we could get a legitimate center for that line(and the mish mash of Bolduc, Bliznak, Perreault or Rypien are not it) that could actually be a decent unit.

But what really bugs me is a trend I've started to notice, which is that AV is getting bent over in the line matching game. I have lost count of how many times our fourth line has gotten caught out against the other team's top unit. Just what the hell do we think is going to happen when that occurs? And it goes for more than just that, too. Even with last change, AV seems unable to avoid the other team's top checking units when deploying the Twins.

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Old
11-22-2010, 11:23 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
These kinds of breakdowns are happening far too much during the last few weeks. The Canucks, coming out of their zone, have been making turnover after turnover. The first period against Ottawa is an indication of this. The team is far to spread out and far too individual and loose in its in its play. I know the Canucks are trying to spread things out but this is leading to huge gaps in their defensive coverage and in their support on offense. Most of the rushes are seem individual rushes where one player is trying to to do it by himself. Right now they need, and I don't care about any directive from management, to tighten up their play.

Yes, but with a caveat: You can tighten up your play without going into a defensive shell. The elite teams closely support the puck anyways. Vancouver does not. They need to get back to doing this immediately.


I can understand the reasoning behind spreading out the players. It forces opposing schemes to adjust in a drastic manner. Longer passes open holes in the defense. The long pass is riskier, but the pay-off is higher. Eventually, if the Canucks connect enough passes, the defense will give too much ground, allowing for better scoring opportunities. However, the flipside is what we saw in the Chicago game.


I would like the team to go to a hybrid approach. Have the back four support the puck closely, and then have the fifth blow the zone with speed (once he sees his teammates regain possession). He will allow for a stretch pass option. Normally, all he will really do is force the opposing D to back up - thereby making them vacate the point - making it easier for your teammates to skate it out of the zone. I've seen Detroit employ this strategy and I think it works well.

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11-22-2010, 11:28 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
A better effort than the previous night, although that should never be a tall order.

Again, IMO, two things need to happen to the top six: The Twins need to be told to simplify their game and get pucks to the net, and Raymond needs to be sat to allow his injury to heal. This is not the playoffs; he does not need to play through the pain.

Samuelsson looked completely awful as the Twins' wingman last night. Many a golden pass was flubbed in the slot or lost in his feet. If neither he or Burrows is working there, bring Tambellini back up. He didn't seem to have a problem burying some of their passes.

I actually thought the fourth line was pretty decent last night. Glass was hustling and Schaefer made some good plays at both ES and on the PK. He is light years ahead of Rypien as a player. If we could get a legitimate center for that line(and the mish mash of Bolduc, Bliznak, Perreault or Rypien are not it) that could actually be a decent unit.

But what really bugs me is a trend I've started to notice, which is that AV is getting bent over in the line matching game. I have lost count of how many times our fourth line has gotten caught out against the other team's top unit. Just what the hell do we think is going to happen when that occurs? And it goes for more than just that, too. Even with last change, AV seems unable to avoid the other team's top checking units when deploying the Twins.
This.^

But I'd like to add that when the Canucks are successful...and i mean for twenty/thirty games at a time...everyone is checking...all over the ice. Outside of Kesler and Hansen, I haven't seen much of that. What I have seen are forwards playing high, almost cherry picking to get offensive chances. It's the kind of hockey the Flames play for gawdsakes.

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11-22-2010, 11:37 AM
  #507
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Can't see us doing anything in the playoffs. All of our players that had "career" years last year have now come down to earth. Mason Raymond looks like a below average 3rd liner capable of 40 pts a year. Alex Burrows is nothing but a checking line winger. Then there is Luongo who has been awful. Mikael is a plug..

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11-22-2010, 11:40 AM
  #508
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This team is hitting pretty significant mental blocks in the first period this year. We seem to come out quite good in the first 10-15 minutes of the first period, but if we don't score a goal (and lets face it we've been struggling to score at even strength) then they seem to deflate, and then the other teams pops a lucky one and we're running around like chickens with our heads cut-off. Speaking of which, we've been having the worst f'ing puck-luck the last 3-4 games. Where the other teams point shot bounces off three shin-pads and ends up in our net, our shots wobble harmlessly into the corner or just miss the post. I'm thinking this part of the game will even out eventually.

Our main problem is that 4 of our 25-30 goal players last year (Henrik, Samuelsson, Raymond, Burrows) are all currently on pace for under 20 goals; the only guys in our top-six pulling their weight at this point are Daniel and Kesler in my opinion. The Sedins have looked below-average (possibly due to the fact Samuelsson and Burrows have sucked) and Kesler is dragging around a bunch of dead-weight most nights. Henrik has 24 points because Daniel has been pretty good in spurts.

I don't know how to solve this; it's our team make-up and we committed to a lot of these guys for at least the next 2-3 seasons (most of them are around longer) so we better hope they figure it out because we don't have a lot of options or any cap-space.

Alberts-Rome are now playing like Alberts-Rome; having these guys as a pair (let alone putting them out there with our sub-par 4th line) is pure idiocy in my opinion.

I don't know what to think about Luongo; he hasn't been terrible (outside the Hawks game), but he's quite obviously not the same goaltender anymore.

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Old
11-22-2010, 11:43 AM
  #509
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I had the game PVRed and just finished watching it. Not sure what all the crying in this thread is about because honestly I thought the Canucks played their best game since the win against Detroit.

We had by far the better chances, we just didn't finish that well and got not love from either the refs or the Hockey gods.

In every slump (and this indeed a slump) there is a point at which a team starts to play well but due to confidence or what ever still loses. This seemed to be one of those games and it's a good sign that the team is coming out of it.

-Particularly encouraging was the play of our 3 slumping top 6 forwards. Burrows, Raymond, and Sammy still aren't close to the level they were at last year however their collective game last night was perhaps the best of the year. Long way to go for those 3 but given their play to this point it's still a positive.

-Top2 lines both played very well and controlled play when they were on the ice. Loads of chances but no finish.

-Very nice bounce back game from Erhoff, he seems to look great when ever he is paired with Edler and terrible when ever he isn't.... Nice coaching on that one BTW..

-3rd line still wasn't great, Hansen in particular is struggling. That line really needs consistancy out of Hansen to counterbalance for Torres and his uhhhh, adventurous nature.

-The Rome Alberts paring was a disaster and has been for a while now. Andrew Alberts seems to have reverted back to his terrible play from last year which is really to bad. This team needs to get Ballard back in and playing well. Rome and Alberts seem to have gotten progressively worse since he was scratched.

-The 4th line may have been the group on for the game winner, but it was still a better showing from them. They actually spent time out of their zone and did have the second goal. The current set up brings very little in terms of grit and toughness but at least they can avoid being embarrassed territorially.


Last edited by Potatoe1: 11-22-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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Old
11-22-2010, 12:18 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
A better effort than the previous night, although that should never be a tall order.

Again, IMO, two things need to happen to the top six: The Twins need to be told to simplify their game and get pucks to the net, and Raymond needs to be sat to allow his injury to heal. This is not the playoffs; he does not need to play through the pain.

Samuelsson looked completely awful as the Twins' wingman last night. Many a golden pass was flubbed in the slot or lost in his feet. If neither he or Burrows is working there, bring Tambellini back up. He didn't seem to have a problem burying some of their passes.

I actually thought the fourth line was pretty decent last night. Glass was hustling and Schaefer made some good plays at both ES and on the PK. He is light years ahead of Rypien as a player. If we could get a legitimate center for that line(and the mish mash of Bolduc, Bliznak, Perreault or Rypien are not it) that could actually be a decent unit.But what really bugs me is a trend I've started to notice, which is that AV is getting bent over in the line matching game. I have lost count of how many times our fourth line has gotten caught out against the other team's top unit. Just what the hell do we think is going to happen when that occurs? And it goes for more than just that, too. Even with last change, AV seems unable to avoid the other team's top checking units when deploying the Twins.
Amen. Glass & Schaefer are 2/3 of a decent 4th line. Gillis must be waiting for Bolduc to come back from injury to see if he is the solution.

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11-22-2010, 01:44 PM
  #511
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First post in two games.

Generally speaking, this team is lost in front of its own net. The problems of the past have not been corrected yet. We are unable to handle big bodies in front of the net, be it Byfuglien, Ladd, Toews, or Taylor Pyatt.

We leave our goalie out to dry constantly. I've never seen a team so bad at helping the goalie out with rebounds. Dear Canucks, go watch a Montreal Canadiens game and watch how to collect a rebound and help a goalie out. We are so freaking bad in front of our net its embarrassing.

From the circles down we are incredibly weak and have been for the past 3 years. We wont win a cup when our defenders can get walked around and constantly beaten to rebounds.

But I don't want to hang the defence out to dry. The centermen on the team share a great responsibility in helping out down low. In the past 2 years, the C of the ice has neglected his responsibility down low in favour of trying to break out early. This has cost us dearly over the past 2 years. Our center's are brutal at helping out down low. They simply don't do it on a near regular enough basis.

The wingers- The break out has been awful. The top 6 wingers have been brutal at breaking the puck out, often missing easy pucks or not even close to be in a position to receive the puck and make a play.

I didn't hang anyone out to dry, because anyone thinking this is a 1 person issue is clearly out to lunch.

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11-22-2010, 02:04 PM
  #512
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But I don't want to hang the defence out to dry. The centermen on the team share a great responsibility in helping out down low. In the past 2 years, the C of the ice has neglected his responsibility down low in favour of trying to break out early. This has cost us dearly over the past 2 years. Our center's are brutal at helping out down low. They simply don't do it on a near regular enough basis.
Strangely, Wellwood was awesome supporting the D down low, but it probably really hurt his offence. I wonder how much of this is Vigneault/Gills wanting Henrik and Kesler playing more offensively, and how much it is just bad play by the centres.

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11-22-2010, 02:13 PM
  #513
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Strangely, Wellwood was awesome supporting the D down low, but it probably really hurt his offence. I wonder how much of this is Vigneault/Gills wanting Henrik and Kesler playing more offensively, and how much it is just bad play by the centres.
I was thinking the same thing - Wellwood was second to none at supporting the D and making himself an outlet for the breakout. He concentrated so much on being defensively responsible that it made his offensive game non-existent at times but there's no question they're missing his reliable, consistent presence down low in the defensive end.

IMO this is where Kesler has been cheating for the better part of the last 2 years. He's head and shoulders better defensively than his linemates but we're seeing more and more of Kesler shirking his defensive responsibilities to pick up the puck with speed heading out of his own end. Maybe the 2nd line needs to look at dialing back the offense a bit in favour of better coverage down low in the defensive zone. It may not have a positive effect on goal differential for that unit but it's probably something worth looking at.

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11-22-2010, 02:45 PM
  #514
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Can't see us doing anything in the playoffs. All of our players that had "career" years last year have now come down to earth. Mason Raymond looks like a below average 3rd liner capable of 40 pts a year. Alex Burrows is nothing but a checking line winger. Then there is Luongo who has been awful. Mikael is a plug..
1. Raymond is playing injured.

2. Only 142 forwards got 40 or more points last year. That would make a 40 point play an average 2nd liner player, not an average 3rd line player, IF he were to get 40 points.

3. Despite his injury, he's still on pace for 49 points. Only 98 players got 49 or more points last year, which would make him an exceptional second line player at those totals.

All in all, you seem to have a very skewed perspective of things.

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11-22-2010, 02:50 PM
  #515
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I stopped counting the number of times Henrik Sedin was floating on the blue line or above it while the team was trying to break out after the first period.

But yea, Wellwood, Kesler, the fourth line, anything but criticizing the Sedins.

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11-22-2010, 03:06 PM
  #516
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2. Only 142 forwards got 40 or more points last year. That would make a 40 point play an average 2nd liner player, not an average 3rd line player, IF he were to get 40 points.
Disagree. 40 points would be a little under 0.5 PPG. There were about 200 forwards who did that least year, putting such a performance firmly in the third-line tier.

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:14 PM
  #517
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Disagree. 40 points would be a little under 0.5 PPG. There were about 200 forwards who did that least year, putting such a performance firmly in the third-line tier.
He was correct, 142 players got 40 or more points last season. Assuming that there are 90 first line players, there's also 90 second line players.

If we're talking about the top 1st or 2nd liners, this kind of approach doesn't make much sense, but if we're talking about "average" 2nd liners then it does. I believe the original poster was saying something about "average" 3rd liners.

Looking at PPG and taking the exact number of players above .5PPG is absurd considering I already counted at least 15 guys that played less than 20 games and I've only gone through a few pages.

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11-22-2010, 04:07 PM
  #518
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I stopped counting the number of times Henrik Sedin was floating on the blue line or above it while the team was trying to break out after the first period.

But yea, Wellwood, Kesler, the fourth line, anything but criticizing the Sedins.
The Sedins are having a rough stretch but they're also carrying this team offensively with 2 right wingers that have been the biggest underachievers on the team this season - though Burrows for good reason.

It's the twins offensive contributions that have kept this team afloat through the quarter pole...

Even though you don't want to admit it you know what I'm saying is true - Kyle Wellwood's play down low and in his own zone supporting his dmen and being in position defensively at all times is exactly what you're saying the team is lacking right now.

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11-22-2010, 04:46 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Sedins are having a rough stretch but they're also carrying this team offensively with 2 right wingers that have been the biggest underachievers on the team this season - though Burrows for good reason.

It's the twins offensive contributions that have kept this team afloat through the quarter pole...

Even though you don't want to admit it you know what I'm saying is true - Kyle Wellwood's play down low and in his own zone supporting his dmen and being in position defensively at all times is exactly what you're saying the team is lacking right now.
During this mini slump, though, it's clear they need to pick it up. Henrik needs to shoot more and they have to stop looking for the fancy little plays and just take it to the net. Too often they gain entry into the zone and try their cheeky saucer passes and it just ends up deflected and turned over. They win their fair share of puck battles but they need to find a way to get to the front of the net instead of always playing behind it.

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11-22-2010, 04:59 PM
  #520
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During this mini slump, though, it's clear they need to pick it up. Henrik needs to shoot more and they have to stop looking for the fancy little plays and just take it to the net. Too often they gain entry into the zone and try their cheeky saucer passes and it just ends up deflected and turned over. They win their fair share of puck battles but they need to find a way to get to the front of the net instead of always playing behind it.
I agree they have struggled of late and I think it's a mistake for Henrik Sedin to revert back to his playmaking, 10 goal form where he's reluctant to shoot but they have always been known to cycle down low until their linemate can find open ice to get a good shot off and this season that isn't happening, at all. Samuelsson and Burrows in particular have been dreadful at finding seems in the opposition defense and aren't putting themselves in good shooting positions to accept those passes.

The Sedins are nearly doubling the next highest forward on the team in points and have really carried this team offensively since game 1. If they weren't putting points on the board like they have we would probably be chasing Calgary right now in the Western conference cellar - and that can't be overlooked. Look at what's happened since the twins have cooled off? Winless in 4...

At what point does Jeff Tambellini get his due? Why doesn't the coaching staff respect what he's done since training camp? Not only has he been noticeably better than Samuelsson and Burrows he would also push a top 9 forward down the depth chart which could help salvage the worst line in hockey right now. Something doesn't add up.

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11-22-2010, 05:01 PM
  #521
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Has there been an update on Luongo's injury status? That looked weird/awkward last night.

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11-22-2010, 05:04 PM
  #522
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I agree they have struggled of late and I think it's a mistake for Henrik Sedin to revert back to his playmaking, 10 goal form where he's reluctant to shoot but they have always been known to cycle down low until their linemate can find open ice to get a good shot off and this season that isn't happening, at all. Samuelsson and Burrows in particular have been dreadful at finding seems in the opposition defense and aren't putting themselves in good shooting positions to accept those passes.

The Sedins are nearly doubling the next highest forward on the team in points and have really carried this team offensively since game 1. If they weren't putting points on the board like they have we would probably be chasing Calgary right now in the Western conference cellar - and that can't be overlooked. Look at what's happened since the twins have cooled off? Winless in 4...

At what point does Jeff Tambellini get his due? Why doesn't the coaching staff respect what he's done since training camp? Not only has he been noticeably better than Samuelsson and Burrows he would also push a top 9 forward down the depth chart which could help salvage the worst line in hockey right now. Something doesn't add up.
Agreed. Sedins have carried the team offensively despite not playing to their potential. But has dried up and has led to losses. They need to simplify their game to get that started again. Agreed also on Tambellini. He needs to be called up.

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11-22-2010, 05:08 PM
  #523
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Has there been an update on Luongo's injury status? That looked weird/awkward last night.
All good, it seems:

Quote:
"His stick got caught under me and as I fell, my whole body weight fell on top of his blade and kind of gave me a charley horse," Luongo said of the Lepisto lunge. "I obviously tried to shake it off and loosen it up. It was a little bit painful, but I got through it. It was starting to tighten up, but then it loosened up a bit."
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Lu...517/story.html

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Old
11-22-2010, 05:51 PM
  #524
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I'm not sure how you could blame loungo for those goals last night...they were all second or deflected shots.

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11-22-2010, 05:54 PM
  #525
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The reason why the Canucks are doing bad is because Hank has the captaincy and he's Swedish which is synonymous for being a quiet leader like Naslund, ultimately leading us to failure.




Thank god that at the very least we haven't heard a bunch of crap spewed from the media and such about this losing streak being because of the quiet soft Euro captain.

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