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Brad Richards/Mike Ribeiro Are They Options?

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Old
11-21-2010, 06:45 PM
  #76
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Grachev and a 1st?
did u forget about that little thing called a salary cap.

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11-21-2010, 07:30 PM
  #77
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That all works yea but why in the world would Dallas trade Richards for frolov and girlroy(assuming they keep up pace) its not like Dallas has to trade Richards.
They wouldn't. Those guys would be in simply to make the cap work for us this year. The real assets would be picks/prospects. Something like 1st, forward prospect, D prospect + Frolov and Gilroy.

This is assuming Dallas decides at some point that they can't re-sign him and want to get future value back.

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11-21-2010, 07:54 PM
  #78
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I've never understood the attachment to Roszival. He's finally playing decent hockey since 2008 true, but he's never played a full season of good, acceptable hockey. He's always hurt. He's paid too much. Sure he looks good now, but a guy like him is very replaceable. There are way more Roszivals out there than Richards(es). If Roszival is the lynchpin for this trade, you make that move every day and twice on Sunday.

I do accept the fact, however, that moving Roszival for Richards is fixing one hole by creating another. But it is still progress.

Still, I'd much rather sit tight and grow the team. Let Roszival and Drury's contracts expire with the CBA. See what the new climate is before we make another huge money committment. I know alot of guys are banking on another amnesty buyout with Redden, but you could see the complete opposite and the NHL could change the rules so that every NHL one way contract counts towards the cap, the cap gets lowered and there's no amnesty buyouts. You just don't know.

I just like the timing right now. Our team is building towards something. We have enough space to keep our core. More space will get opened when we should be in contention. We got into trouble when we thought the team was something special and we started adding pieces too soon. Shanny, Cullen, Drury, Gomez, Redden... they were all signed with the belief that we were on the verge of deep playoff runs. Don't make the same mistake again.

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11-21-2010, 07:54 PM
  #79
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Rangerboy has gone over the details many times in several threads.

Dubinsky, Callahan, and Anisimov are due raises this summer. They are priority #1.

Drury and his 7+ mil cap hit and full no movement clause are still on the books next season.

Rozsival's 5+ mil cap hit is still on the books next season. And while he may be movable, the question has been raised, who replaces his minutes? And no one has supplied a viable answer. Sauer? Possibly.

Redden's cap hit returns in the summer before they can legally send him back to the AHL (training camp) and clear his cap hit. They can only legally be over the cap by so much in the summer.

Buying out Drury would be a mistake, instead of only being on the hook for one more season, we would be on the hook for two.

If Richards became a UFA in the summer of 2012, none of this would be an issue. But unfortunately, it is an issue.

I LOVE Richards as a hockey player, always have. He's a real heck of a hockey player. And would be ideal. But its not happening, for the simple reason that its nearly impossible to make it work.

Look at the Devils. They're married to Kovalchuk now, for over a decade to come. And they can't currently ice a full solid roster because of it.

We can't afford to be in that situation.

For the first time in a long time we have a leg up on the Devils.

As much as I would LOVE Richards in a Rangers uniform, its just not financially feasible.

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11-21-2010, 08:00 PM
  #80
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if we could pay a rental price for him (prospal, frolov, midlevel prospect and a 2nd), id be all for it.

don't think that'll get it done.

don't really wanna move roszival and don't think dallas would want him anyway

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11-21-2010, 08:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
if we could pay a rental price for him (prospal, frolov, midlevel prospect and a 2nd), id be all for it.

don't think that'll get it done.

don't really wanna move roszival and don't think dallas would want him anyway
Why trade Prospal, the guy is making practically pennies. When he is in the lineup he brings a lot to the table. He produced last year for us until he got hurt. If he can return healthy I think he'd do the same again. And lets not forget the guy plays with a ton of emotion and passion for the game. That is something to be valued when you're contending for a playoff spot and in the playoffs itself.

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11-21-2010, 11:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangerboy has gone over the details many times in several threads.

Dubinsky, Callahan, and Anisimov are due raises this summer. They are priority #1.

Drury and his 7+ mil cap hit and full no movement clause are still on the books next season.

Rozsival's 5+ mil cap hit is still on the books next season. And while he may be movable, the question has been raised, who replaces his minutes? And no one has supplied a viable answer. Sauer? Possibly.

Redden's cap hit returns in the summer before they can legally send him back to the AHL (training camp) and clear his cap hit. They can only legally be over the cap by so much in the summer.

Buying out Drury would be a mistake, instead of only being on the hook for one more season, we would be on the hook for two.

If Richards became a UFA in the summer of 2012, none of this would be an issue. But unfortunately, it is an issue.

I LOVE Richards as a hockey player, always have. He's a real heck of a hockey player. And would be ideal. But its not happening, for the simple reason that its nearly impossible to make it work.

Look at the Devils. They're married to Kovalchuk now, for over a decade to come. And they can't currently ice a full solid roster because of it.

We can't afford to be in that situation.

For the first time in a long time we have a leg up on the Devils.

As much as I would LOVE Richards in a Rangers uniform, its just not financially feasible.
I know it may not be the most popular idea but what about re-signing Eminger or another stop-gap for 1 season for far less than 5 million?

Staal-Eminger/Sauer
MDZ-Girardi
Valentenko/McDonagh-Eminger/Sauer

I actually like Eminger's game so far and he is very capable of playing a lot of minutes. The great thing would be that Sauer will most likely be capable of playing 18-20 minutes most likely so he will take the PK, where he can concentrate on defense and Eminger will take the PP. Splitting the responsibilities.

I could live with that defense or one like it if it meant having an offense like this:

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
MZA-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Boyle/Drury
Prust-Boyle/Drury-Boogaard

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Old
11-21-2010, 11:29 PM
  #83
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Do want Ribeiro. He'll take less to acquire than Richards methinks.

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11-22-2010, 04:59 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Ribeiro? **** that. We don't need to trade for a good option. We need a great option. It's Richards or nothing.

Richards for Rozsival, 2011 1st, Todd White (cap hit purposes), and a good prospect like McDonagh or Grachev (personally, I'd suggest McIlrath but I know that won't happen).

Losing Rozsival hurts our defense, but I think it's plain ludicrous to suggest that the negative of losing Rozsival outweighs the positive of gaining Richards. Rozsival is a slightly above average second pairing defenseman. Richards is one of the top 5-10 playmakers in the game in a league where offense is king.

Or just deal Rozsival after this season and sign Richards as a free agent. Obviously that would be preferable, but I don't mind giving up a good prospect and a first to get him if it ensures he will re-sign and not hit the free agent market. Give him a month plus a playoff run to settle with the room and the players and get uses to the MSG luxuries, and he won't want to leave.
Not sure what you're talking about. He's top pairing on close to every team in the league. Maybe you're confusing top pairing with elite? But for simplicity's sake, there are 30 teams, so top pairing would be the best 60 d-men in the league. Looking at Rozsival's combined stats among active d-man since the lockout, his numbers are top 40 in the league in almost every available stat. 6th in GP, 33rd in pts, 20th in plus/minus, 26th in ppg, 6th in shg, 17th in shot%, and 10th in minutes played. You seriously see that as an above average second pair d-man?


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Old
11-22-2010, 05:05 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I've never understood the attachment to Roszival. He's finally playing decent hockey since 2008 true, but he's never played a full season of good, acceptable hockey. He's always hurt. He's paid too much. Sure he looks good now, but a guy like him is very replaceable. There are way more Roszivals out there than Richards(es). If Roszival is the lynchpin for this trade, you make that move every day and twice on Sunday.
Stuff like this blows my mind. Since he came to the NYR, only 5 d-men in the league have played more games. Games played since the lockout by d-men:

Bouwmeester - 410
Phaneuf - 404
Keith - 404
Hannan - 404
Hamhuis - 403
Rozsival - 400

He may play a lot hurt, which is a testament to his commitment. But few d-men in the league miss less time than this guy. 5 to be exact.

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11-22-2010, 06:07 AM
  #86
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Creating strawman arguments, I see. 1). I discussed the possibilty of acquiring Richards for THIS season, and admitted not being sure of how the Rangers would be able to re-sign him. 2). I did not "defend" the Debbies re-signing Kovalcuk. Rather, I pointed out that the Debbies did spend money on D. I also pointed out that comparing the Rangers trading for Richards. Was not comparable to the Debbies trading for Kovalchuk. If anything, the Iginla rumors were a more apt comparison.
Strawman arguments?

Kovalchuk sunk that franchise. They gave up 4 assets to acquire him. Gave him 15/$100 million to retain him. Had the first contract rejected for circumvention and were punished for that. Lost a 3rd in 2011 and will lose a future #1. The Devils had to play with fewer than 18 skaters because of the Kovalchuk contract. Pierre LeBrun reported last week about the Devil players looking over their shoulders and being concerned about their future due to the Devils cap problems created by the Kovalchuk contract. They spent the money on D before Kovalchuk signed. Created the cap mess. Couldn't move their other parts. Too many NTC's. Age on their players. 35 plus contracts.

You can't just blame the coach for their struggles. The team is a mess thanks to the Kovakchuk contract. They were a good team without him.

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11-22-2010, 06:29 AM
  #87
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Stuff like this blows my mind. Since he came to the NYR, only 5 d-men in the league have played more games. Games played since the lockout by d-men:

Bouwmeester - 410
Phaneuf - 404
Keith - 404
Hannan - 404
Hamhuis - 403
Rozsival - 400

He may play a lot hurt, which is a testament to his commitment. But few d-men in the league miss less time than this guy. 5 to be exact.
And he is probably the only guy on that list to play in every season. It's inflated because he has been in the league since you started your count and alot of the guys trailing him haven't. And it's not just about missing games, it's about not being 100% or 80%. It's about his injuries hampering his game. It's not a myth. Roszival gets hurt. Your argument is incredibly flawed.

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11-22-2010, 07:06 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Strawman arguments?

Kovalchuk sunk that franchise. They gave up 4 assets to acquire him. Gave him 15/$100 million to retain him. Had the first contract rejected for circumvention and were punished for that. Lost a 3rd in 2011 and will lose a future #1. The Devils had to play with fewer than 18 skaters because of the Kovalchuk contract. Pierre LeBrun reported last week about the Devil players looking over their shoulders and being concerned about their future due to the Devils cap problems created by the Kovalchuk contract. They spent the money on D before Kovalchuk signed. Created the cap mess. Couldn't move their other parts. Too many NTC's. Age on their players. 35 plus contracts.



You can't just blame the coach for their struggles. The team is a mess thanks to the Kovakchuk contract. They were a good team without him.
And, again, you keep broadening the argument. Again, I never defended the Debbies signing Kovalchuk. All I disputed was that it did not keep the Debbies from addressing the issues on defense. Again, whether or not they made the correct choices was not what I argued. The Kovalchuk signing caused other problems, but, those weren't the issues that were being discussed. And, the Debbies' problem run deeper than just the Kovalchuk signing. Start with the inability to draft and develop quality young D-men, and then throw in the prior poor signings of players like Elias, who's not worth his contract and Zubrus...plenty of cap-choking contracts. Brodeur has been awful in the playoffs. I never thought Kovalchuk was a good fit for the Debbies last year. And, I am not disputing anything you just posted. But, again, none of that was what was being debated.

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11-22-2010, 07:06 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Strawman arguments?

Kovalchuk sunk that franchise. They gave up 4 assets to acquire him. Gave him 15/$100 million to retain him. Had the first contract rejected for circumvention and were punished for that. Lost a 3rd in 2011 and will lose a future #1. The Devils had to play with fewer than 18 skaters because of the Kovalchuk contract. Pierre LeBrun reported last week about the Devil players looking over their shoulders and being concerned about their future due to the Devils cap problems created by the Kovalchuk contract. They spent the money on D before Kovalchuk signed. Created the cap mess. Couldn't move their other parts. Too many NTC's. Age on their players. 35 plus contracts.



You can't just blame the coach for their struggles. The team is a mess thanks to the Kovakchuk contract. They were a good team without him.
And, again, you keep broadening the argument. I never defended the Debbies signing Kovalchuk. All I disputed was that it did not keep the Debbies from addressing the issues on defense. Again, whether or not they made the correct choices was not what I argued. The Kovalchuk signing caused other problems, but, those weren't the issues that were being discussed. And, the Debbies' problem run deeper than just the Kovalchuk signing. Start with the inability to draft and develop quality young D-men, and then throw in the prior poor signings of players like Elias, who's not worth his contract and Zubrus...plenty of cap-choking contracts. Brodeur has been awful in the playoffs. I never thought Kovalchuk was a good fit for the Debbies last year. And, I am not disputing anything you just posted. But, again, none of that was what was being debated.

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11-22-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
And he is probably the only guy on that list to play in every season. It's inflated because he has been in the league since you started your count and alot of the guys trailing him haven't. And it's not just about missing games, it's about not being 100% or 80%. It's about his injuries hampering his game. It's not a myth. Roszival gets hurt. Your argument is incredibly flawed.
Are you high? Or are you suggesting Bouwmeester magically played 410 games in 4 seasons? 244 players in the league have played all five seasons from 05-06 to 09-10, and only 17 of them have played more games than Rozsival. Guys play hurt in hockey. If Rozsival is getting hurt, he is playing through it and is not missing too many games.


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11-22-2010, 07:45 AM
  #91
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I don't mind Ribiero but I don't see how it works at all given the cap

Truth is Drury needs to come off the books. Only other way to do this is moving Rozsival but then that hurts the D

Conceivably they could deal a 2nd for a rental Dman at the deadline and then package Rozsival, Gilroy, Grachev , Christensen and more to try and get Richards

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11-22-2010, 09:39 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangerboy has gone over the details many times in several threads.

Dubinsky, Callahan, and Anisimov are due raises this summer. They are priority #1.

Drury and his 7+ mil cap hit and full no movement clause are still on the books next season.


Buying out Drury would be a mistake, instead of only being on the hook for one more season, we would be on the hook for two.
I don't like the idea of buying out Drury either. But...I do think he's tradeable, even with the NMV clause. Drury is a very classy guy. If the organization went to him and said "we have a chance of moving you this year" I really don't think he is going to make too much of a fuss about it. He knows the cap implementations next year, and just like you and Rangerboy pointed out signing the trio of Dubi/Ani/Cally is priority #. So not only do we all know this, so does everyone in that lockerroom, especially the Captain. I don't think Drury is the type of guy that would veto a trade if Sather finds a partner. NY owes Chris nothing. They gave him the biggest contract of his life, and if he had the chance to give back by allowing a trade to a different team, I truly don't think it's in his charachter to say no.

Of course the real problem is Chris Drury enormous salary. I thought I remember seeing that he is only on the books for 5Mil next year? While I understand the cap hit remains the same, the dollar amount wouldn't. That in itself should be somewhat more appealing. Also, there is a wealth...a wealth of prospects in the system that Glen has to offer in a deal. Drury plus mid level prospect might be more appealing to another GM than just Chris Drury.

I think GM favors can come in big for Glen this year. In order to keep the youth IMO the new priority number 1 is what to do with Drury and the 7 million dollars?

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11-22-2010, 11:05 AM
  #93
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"Unstable ownership in Dallas will factor into Brad Richards availability. Tough to make the $ work, but NYR most likely target. less than 10 seconds ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®"

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11-22-2010, 11:33 AM
  #94
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Brad Richards on #leafs: "When the time comes, if that's an option, Toronto's always a No. 1 destination ... but we're not close to that."

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11-22-2010, 11:45 AM
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Toronto doesn't have the assets to get richards

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11-22-2010, 11:47 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangerboy has gone over the details many times in several threads.

Dubinsky, Callahan, and Anisimov are due raises this summer. They are priority #1.

Drury and his 7+ mil cap hit and full no movement clause are still on the books next season.
None of this would stand in the way of acquiring Richards.

Quote:
Rozsival's 5+ mil cap hit is still on the books next season. And while he may be movable, the question has been raised, who replaces his minutes? And no one has supplied a viable answer. Sauer? Possibly.
What do you mean? Of course an answer has been supplied. The answer is "who cares?" The answer is that this shouldn't even be a consideration in this discussion. You can replace him with Dale ****ing Purinton, and it's still a win if you're getting Brad Richards. If you put Brad Richards on this team and replace Rozsival with a traffic cone, you've improved this team. Yes, your defense will suffer for a season. Your offense, and overall control over hockey games, however, goes way up.

And for the record, if he stays healthy, Michael Sauer would absolutely be able to take his place. Mark my words, if he doesn't get injured, Michael Sauer will be one of the league's most criminally underrated defensemen. He already does more things better than Rozsival does, albeit during a much smaller sample size.

Quote:
Redden's cap hit returns in the summer before they can legally send him back to the AHL (training camp) and clear his cap hit. They can only legally be over the cap by so much in the summer.

Buying out Drury would be a mistake, instead of only being on the hook for one more season, we would be on the hook for two.

If Richards became a UFA in the summer of 2012, none of this would be an issue. But unfortunately, it is an issue.

I LOVE Richards as a hockey player, always have. He's a real heck of a hockey player. And would be ideal. But its not happening, for the simple reason that its nearly impossible to make it work.
Trading Rozsival makes it more than possible.

Quote:
Look at the Devils. They're married to Kovalchuk now, for over a decade to come. And they can't currently ice a full solid roster because of it.
Yes, they're married to Kovalchuk for over a decade and they can't ice a full roster THIS season. Not next season. Not for the rest of the decade. THIS season, when they weren't going to be a contender anyway without a puck-moving defenseman, a new coach, a ton of injuries, and an old Fatso. Kovalchuk was signed for the post-Brodeur/Elias/Rolston/Langenbrunner/Arnott/White/Salvador era. All of those players will be gone over the next 1/2/3 seasons. Kovalchuk will still be in his prime, Parise will be entering his prime, Zajac will be entering his prime, and they'll have tons of cap space to surround those guys with other players. Judging the 15-year Kovalchuk contract after 3 MONTHS is ridiculous, makes no sense, and is totally being fueled by blind homerism. The Devils signed Kovalchuk because they knew they were going to have to rebuild in a few years, but who knows what will be available then? Kovalchuk and Richards type players don't become free agents very often.

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Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
Not sure what you're talking about. He's top pairing on close to every team in the league. Maybe you're confusing top pairing with elite? But for simplicity's sake, there are 30 teams, so top pairing would be the best 60 d-men in the league. Looking at Rozsival's combined stats among active d-man since the lockout, his numbers are top 40 in the league in almost every available stat. 6th in GP, 33rd in pts, 20th in plus/minus, 26th in ppg, 6th in shg, 17th in shot%, and 10th in minutes played. You seriously see that as an above average second pair d-man?
When you play enough, you're going to get stats, but stats are not everything, and I don't know how anyone can watch him play and compare him with other top-pairing defensemen around the league. He's a solid defender who contributes virtually nothing offensively. His two most defining characteristics are that he refuses to utilize his one standout offensive ability, his shot, and that he's prone to sometimes making the worst possible mistakes at the worst possible time (though to his credit, that happens less often than it used to). He just doesn't impact games the way the league's best defensemen do. He plays that much because no one else on the team can...yet. In a season, that won't be the case anymore.

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11-22-2010, 12:06 PM
  #97
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And for the record, if he stays healthy, Michael Sauer would absolutely be able to take his place. Mark my words, if he doesn't get injured, Michael Sauer will be one of the league's most criminally underrated defensemen. He already does more things better than Rozsival does, albeit during a much smaller sample size.


At this point, thats a big if.

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11-22-2010, 12:10 PM
  #98
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by wyshynski
Brad Richards on #leafs: "When the time comes, if that's an option, Toronto's always a No. 1 destination ... but we're not close to that."
I bet Leafs fans are high-fiveing in the streets after reading that. It's all but a certainty now.

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11-22-2010, 12:27 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Kovalchuk sunk that franchise.
That's it folks. 2 months have passed, but it's clear as day. They might as well close up shop now.

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They gave up 4 assets to acquire him.
Only one, MAYBE two, were of any significance.

Quote:
Gave him 15/$100 million to retain him.
And the problem is? You get a 40-50 goal scorer for a bargain cap hit and then when he's old and they don't want him anymore, he'll just go to Russia. Big deal.

Quote:
Had the first contract rejected for circumvention and were punished for that. Lost a 3rd in 2011 and will lose a future #1.
So that's the Devils and Kovalchuk's fault, not the NHL for being ********** that punish teams for not breaking any rules?

Quote:
The Devils had to play with fewer than 18 skaters because of the Kovalchuk contract. Pierre LeBrun reported last week about the Devil players looking over their shoulders and being concerned about their future due to the Devils cap problems created by the Kovalchuk contract.
So what? What does ANY of this mean? Most of those players had no future with this team anyway.

The Devils cap problems were created by signing Brian Rolston to a horrible contract before they ever even acquired Kovalchuk, by paying a combined 5.9 million per season to two bottom-pairing defensemen (Salvador and White). Paying 1.5 mill to a backup isn't exactly a great move, either. Even the Patrik Elias deal was questionable at the time it was signed because he's already on a bit of a decline, and not really worth 6 million dollars.

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They spent the money on D before Kovalchuk signed. Created the cap mess. Couldn't move their other parts. Too many NTC's. Age on their players. 35 plus contracts.
You just made my point for me and totally rendered everything you said irrelevant. Their problems started before Kovalchuk entered into the equation.

Quote:
You can't just blame the coach for their struggles. The team is a mess thanks to the Kovakchuk contract. They were a good team without him.
No, they were an aging team on the downslope who lost their only puckmoving defenseman before they signed anyone. If they weren't so attached to Brodeur and Elias, they would have gotten rid of them already and started rebuilding. At best, they were going to be a playoff team this season. They were in no position to compete with WSH, PHI, PIT, or BOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Dreger Twitter:

"Unstable ownership in Dallas will factor into Brad Richards availability. Tough to make the $ work, but NYR most likely target. less than 10 seconds ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®"
Of course, they're the most likely target. There has never been a more perfect fit for a big free agent to be. Everything about a Richards-NYR marriage makes sense. It's a perfect situation for him, and he's EXACTLY what this team needs.

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Old
11-22-2010, 12:51 PM
  #100
wolfgaze
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I know it may not be the most popular idea but what about re-signing Eminger or another stop-gap for 1 season for far less than 5 million?

Staal-Eminger/Sauer
MDZ-Girardi
Valentenko/McDonagh-Eminger/Sauer

I actually like Eminger's game so far and he is very capable of playing a lot of minutes. The great thing would be that Sauer will most likely be capable of playing 18-20 minutes most likely so he will take the PK, where he can concentrate on defense and Eminger will take the PP. Splitting the responsibilities.

I could live with that defense or one like it if it meant having an offense like this:
If Steve Eminger is a permanent fixture on one of our top 2 defensive pairings for an entire season, lord help us all!

That will not fly....

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