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Lets talk Goaltending or the "would you ever trade Hank" thread?

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:17 PM
  #51
offdacrossbar
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Compared to how many miraculous saves he has given us, its small potatoes.

And again, if he's playing like this in Mrach/April its a problem. Right now, its a blip on a slow news day.
ugh. that buffalo game last april 6th comes to mind... i was there in person to watch that hank stinker.

right now he seems to have lost some focus but its nov and were in pretty good shape overall considering. i will say this, hes showing alot more emotion this year. more negative body language when he gives up a goal he thinks he should have stopped. im not crazy about all the visible signs of unhappiness. he needs to get back to being the cool, unflappable customer were used to.

unless you can make the team better, you should never make a blockbuster trade. it would be impossible to get back enough to pull this off.

ill take my chances with henrik in net everytime, especially when we are rid of the drury and rozy contracts in the near future.

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11-22-2010, 03:18 PM
  #52
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for the record im not advocating trading henrik.

just curious as to people thoughts about that possability.

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11-22-2010, 03:36 PM
  #53
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Without Henrik, where would we be? Our defense and offense are average,really- the one thing we have going for us is Hank. Sure, he's had a less than stellar start, but I think trading him in his prime does more bad than good unless we're getting an elite talent in return.

The Capitals winning the SC in the last few years is much more likely with Hank in net. I don't think you can just trade one of the top 5 goaltending talents in the league.

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11-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Without Henrik, where would we be? Our defense and offense are average,really- the one thing we have going for us is Hank. Sure, he's had a less than stellar start, but I think trading him in his prime does more bad than good unless we're getting an elite talent in return.

The Capitals winning the SC in the last few years is much more likely with Hank in net. I don't think you can just trade one of the top 5 goaltending talents in the league.

1) You're right that by and large, both the offense and the defense is pedestrian. But that's part of the problem with the way this team is constructed. They're neither offensive focused nor defensive-minded.

2) The reason you would consider trading Lundqvist is so you make your offense or defense not pedestrian.

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11-22-2010, 03:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) You're right that by and large, both the offense and the defense is pedestrian. But that's part of the problem with the way this team is constructed. They're neither offensive focused nor defensive-minded.

2) The reason you would consider trading Lundqvist is so you make your offense or defense not pedestrian.

But what would that do for us? Make us regular season heroes like the Capitals? If our team can play the game like we've seen now, with a goalie of Hanks caliber standing on his head much more likely than someone like Niemi, a deep playoff run is very possible for the Rangers.

I'd be more open to the idea (but still say a resounding no) if trading Henrik brings us any closer to winning the cup. IMO, it does the opposite. Just because this last SC saw the mediocre goaltenders battle doesn't mean that's the formula for a winning team. The Dev's, although with solid defense backing him up, mostly relied on Brodeur being elite.

I'd be ecstatic if we were as good as the Capitals, but look what ignoring goaltending has done for them. Building this team around Hank is essential IMO, and the addition of a legitimate number 1 d-man to pair with Staal or the addition of someone like Richards without gutting our team bumps up our skating game enough that we're contenders, imo, with Hank as the rock in net.

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11-22-2010, 04:01 PM
  #56
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No. I would not. I think the case against trading him has been sufficiently stated by a number of people.

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11-22-2010, 04:01 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
But what would that do for us? Make us regular season heroes like the Capitals? If our team can play the game like we've seen now, with a goalie of Hanks caliber standing on his head much more likely than someone like Niemi, a deep playoff run is very possible for the Rangers.

I'd be more open to the idea (but still say a resounding no) if trading Henrik brings us any closer to winning the cup. IMO, it does the opposite. Just because this last SC saw the mediocre goaltenders battle doesn't mean that's the formula for a winning team. The Dev's, although with solid defense backing him up, mostly relied on Brodeur being elite.

I'd be ecstatic if we were as good as the Capitals, but look what ignoring goaltending has done for them. Building this team around Hank is essential IMO, and the addition of a legitimate number 1 d-man to pair with Staal or the addition of someone like Richards without gutting our team bumps up our skating game enough that we're contenders, imo, with Hank as the rock in net.
The Capitals are a hot goalie away from winning a Cup. Now does that mean an elite goalie? I don't know.

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11-22-2010, 04:04 PM
  #58
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Trade Hank? Yeah, great idea guys. LOL

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11-22-2010, 04:05 PM
  #59
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Trade Hank? Yeah, great idea guys. LOL
Read the thread. Nobody is advocating trading him.

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11-22-2010, 04:08 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The Capitals are a hot goalie away from winning a Cup. Now does that mean an elite goalie? I don't know.
I think so. Their defense is not good enough to do to a goaltender what the Philly and Hawks defense did to Leighton and Niemi. Even then, Leighton and Niemi looked downright bad at times even with that elite defense. Whichever team has Henrik playing at 100% during last SCF wins the cup. A REAL hot goaltender in the playoffs was Halak, who has shown that he is capable of being a rock solid starter in this league, so I don't even think hecould really be classified as hot as much as a GOOD goaltender. I don't think anyone the Caps have played with in net yet are able to do that.

I'll take it a step further- I think we'd be able to beat the Capitals because of Henrik.Of course, it's just a difference of opinions which is totally cool, but I think Hank is an absolutely integral part of this team now and into the future.

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11-22-2010, 04:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The Capitals are a hot goalie away from winning a Cup. Now does that mean an elite goalie? I don't know.
This is the most important distinction in my mind.

Look at the list of goaltenders that have won a cup since the lockout - not a perennial top 5 NHL goaltender in the bunch.

Do you need an elite goalie these days? Or do you just need a goalie to play elite for 6-8 weeks throughout the playoffs?

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11-22-2010, 04:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is the most important distinction in my mind.

Look at the list of goaltenders that have won a cup since the lockout - not a perennial top 5 NHL goaltender in the bunch.

Do you need an elite goalie these days? Or do you just need a goalie to play elite for 6-8 weeks throughout the playoffs?
But why take the gamble of having your goaltender over achieve, when you can know your goaltender is already at the level necessary for a cup winning goalie?

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11-22-2010, 04:18 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
But why take the gamble of having your goaltender over achieve, when you can know your goaltender is already at the level necessary for a cup winning goalie?
Because a hot goalie can beat an elite goalie.

Niemi beat Nabokov and Luongo. Leighton beat Thomas

That said, it's not a choice of an elite goalie vs. a good goalie It's an elite goalie vs. a good goalie and improved other areas.

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11-22-2010, 04:19 PM
  #64
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But why take the gamble of having your goaltender over achieve, when you can know your goaltender is already at the level necessary for a cup winning goalie?
The gamble might be worth it if Henrik's salary can be better attributed elsewhere to build a cup winner.

Not saying thats really the case with this team, but its certainly worth a second look.

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11-22-2010, 04:28 PM
  #65
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im not so sure hank could lead us to a cup this year even if he was scalding hot heading into the playoffs.

we still lack both depth and high end talent. we are a team of plumbers and that wont get it done even with a "stand on his head" henrik.

im honestly leaning towards a team full of talent with a middling goaltender over what we currently have now. does that mean i would trade hank ? prolly not unless the return was of equal or better value.

this is a tough one.

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11-22-2010, 04:36 PM
  #66
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Well if we sign Richards our top line becomes one of the most dangerous in the league, IMO.

With a sniper of Gaborik's quality, and a top playmaker like Richards, our top line is VERY good. Right now our team has shown it has decent secondary scoring, so I think Richards makes our offense potent.

On the other hand, if we can get an elite number 1 d-man, that makes our defense much deeper too. However, and this is where I think we disconnect, with Henrik in net we don't NEED an absolutely stacked defense like Philly. Give me Marc Staal- UFA number 1 d-man as the first pair and X-Girardi on the second, and Hank can handle what our defense can't. On the offense side, with Hank keeping goals out of the net, having a first line with Richards and Gabs and leaving the secondary scoring we've seen the same makes us a great team.

I definitely understand where you guys are coming from, but that's the way I think we should go about building the team from here on out.

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11-22-2010, 04:37 PM
  #67
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No love for the Lehner/Karlsson senario on pg2 ?

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11-22-2010, 04:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, so ive committed blasphemy with this thread bit once you get over the initial knee jerk reaction, the question remains.

would you ?

imagine the package we could get in return ? #1 pick (s) and/or a bonafide stud scorer(s). would that package be enough to warrant that move right now?

chad johnson-2010-11 Regular Season Hartford Wolf Pack 16 42 933 393 2.70 0.903 10 0 1 2 6 0.667 0 0

and scott stajcer-2010-11 Regular Season Owen Sound Attack 14 38 782 347 2.91 0.901 10 3 0 0 1 1

and to a lesser extent cam talbot all seem to have talent but are they future #1's ?

could biron carry the load in a rebuilding year or even 2 years until one of the kids is ready ?

could we win without henrik lundqvist ?

discuss.
While if the return was right it would have to be considered, I just couldn't do it.

I'd be sick to my stomache everytime our replacement got bombed, not to mention I'd want to cry everytime he came back and beat us.

Once our defense matures (which my hope includes the acquisition if Chris Philips) and we get a little more scoring we could really be a cup contender. I know I'm a constant pessimist because I can't stand Tortorella, but I really believe with what we already have in our young players, paired with gaborik and Hank, were almost there.

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11-22-2010, 04:55 PM
  #69
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Read the thread. Nobody is advocating trading him.

I've read the thread.

Even the idea is ludicrous. We have an elite goaltender...you build from there...you don't deal him.

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11-22-2010, 04:58 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
I've read the thread.

Even the idea is ludicrous. We have an elite goaltender...you build from there...you don't deal him.
If you read the thread, you'd see there are arguments why you have to at least consider it.

Last year there were two pedestrian goalies in the finals.

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11-22-2010, 05:08 PM
  #71
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No way do I trade Lundqvist. Just like people may have the impression that Iginla has and always will be a Flame, I cannot for the life of me see this guy play for any other team...With Biron here I feel it is all the more reason to not deal Lundqvist. We know what kind of a goaltender "Hank" is. Whenever he has been off of his game it's due to mental fatigue. I was wrong (imo) about Chad Johnson. I don't believe he's a suitable back up. Now we have one in Biron. And I think he loves it here (especially having the opportunity to work with B.A.).

Contrary to what many might think. I believe goal tending is as important now, than it has ever been. I don't know the stats off hand (they beat L.A., Vancouver, and Washington recently) But I'll bet Buffalo has been playing much better hockey and will be putting up more "W's" now that Miller has returned.
And there's no way Montreal eliminates the Pens + Caps without Halak.
If Philly and/or Washington do not win a Cup this year or the year after, I think those team's will be forced (out of frustration) to make a deal for a top notch goal tender.

Not to mention, I think (already) you can make the argument that Lundqvist is the best goal tender this franchise has ever seen. Richter and Giacomin had much better offensive teams (and cup contending team's) with all of the hall of fame players (and banner raising guys) they've had the chance to play with every year. But I think the Rangers have plenty of youth within the organization who are playing well, and will only get better each and every year.

So no, I wouldn't trade Lundqvist (unless the deal includes a variety choice of one particular super star player from a few teams out there. But to these team's I can guarantee they say no primarily because it would make absolutely no sense).

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11-22-2010, 05:13 PM
  #72
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No way do I trade Lundqvist. Just like people may have the impression that Iginla has and always will be a Flame, I cannot for the life of me see this guy play for any other team...With Biron here I feel it is all the more reason to not deal Lundqvist. We know what kind of a goaltender "Hank" is. Whenever he has been off of his game it's due to mental fatigue. I was wrong (imo) about Chad Johnson. I don't believe he's a suitable back up. Now we have one in Biron. And I think he loves it here (especially having the opportunity to work with B.A.).

Contrary to what many might think. I believe goal tending is as important now, than it has ever been. I don't know the stats off hand (they beat L.A., Vancouver, and Washington recently) But I'll bet Buffalo has been playing much better hockey and will be putting up more "W's" now that Miller has returned.
And there's no way Montreal eliminates the Pens + Caps without Halak.
If Philly and/or Washington do not win a Cup this year or the year after, I think those team's will be forced (out of frustration) to make a deal for a top notch goal tender.

Not to mention, I think (already) you can make the argument that Lundqvist is the best goal tender this franchise has ever seen. Richter and Giacomin had much better offensive teams (and cup contending team's) with all of the hall of fame players (and banner raising guys) they've had the chance to play with every year. But I think the Rangers have plenty of youth within the organization who are playing well, and will only get better each and every year.

So no, I wouldn't trade Lundqvist (unless the deal includes a variety choice of one particular super star player from a few teams out there. But to these team's I can guarantee they say no primarily because it would make absolutely no sense).
Halak is a good example of what I've been mentioning in this thread. Halak got hot. Damn hot. At the right time. But Halak could have been had for a 2nd round pick in the middle of last season.

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11-22-2010, 05:18 PM
  #73
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I believe I made a post in the "lundqvist is the best" thread saying there would be a thread about trading him after he has a couple crappy games. Here it is. Sad how predictable it is.

If the people on this board managed the NHL there would be some incredible turnover on teams rosters. I don't think a player would stay on a team for more then a month

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11-22-2010, 05:19 PM
  #74
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If you read the thread, you'd see there are arguments why you have to at least consider it.

Last year there were two pedestrian goalies in the finals.
...with a very non-pedestrian defense.

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11-22-2010, 05:21 PM
  #75
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...with a very non-pedestrian defense.
Again, thats the point, the money went to upgrade other areas.

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