HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Zherdev for a Sunday afternoon

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-21-2010, 10:34 PM
  #51
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
We are not losing games because of Zherdev. We lose games because we take too many lazy penalties and our D looked like a bunch of clowns for te last few games. So we do not need to trade him right now.

But yes, Zherdev is Zherdev. Nothing will change him, Homer knew what he was getting.
I have to agree with this. I don't think Homer got him in the hopes he'd suddenly play like Gagne. He got him because he's good for a few fancy goals. While it's fun to make fun of the Zherdev Ballet On Ice whenever it fails, it's succeeded in drawing quite a few penalties...not that it matters with this PP at times.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 10:42 PM
  #52
Larry44
10 - 88
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,303
vCash: 500
Keep Zherdev and keep working on him and his game. He is proving that he has the kind of gamebreaking skills that can make a huge difference in a tight playoff game. When we've put out Carter/Giroux and Briere's line, then comes Richards and Z and it will payoff in the long run.

Let's face it, if we get significant injuries again down the stretch, it's nice to have a guy who can play with the best players in the world down your lineup.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 10:47 PM
  #53
Flyerfan808
Registered User
 
Flyerfan808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
Enigmatic.

How many times did we hear this word when we signed him, even from our 'good friends' on the Rangers board.

I was skeptical when we signed him also. I didn't necessarily agree that he would be a 55pt guy. I thought he would end up in Lavi's doghouse, which is exactly where he is now.

I saw some things in the early parts of the season that were very disconcerting. Some bad turnovers in the neutral zone and offensive zone. I thought at times he is trying to be too pretty when really he should have just dumped it down and gone off for a line change. I see him skating hard, I see him trying to be physical. I honestly believe that he has good intentions but sometimes he just doesn't know where or what he should be doing especially when he doesn't have the puck.

I say all these things, and then he'll have a shift where he is flying on the ice, makes a nifty little pass to break into the offensive zone and performs sick dangles undressing defensemen and goalies.

Enigmatic.

Flyerfan808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 10:50 PM
  #54
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I really don'tunderstand the Zherdev hate. I've seriously gotten tired of it. He's been fine since the benching. No one gets on Briere for not being as strong defensively as offensively
Sure we have. The reason a lot of people didn't want him at centre was due to his lousy defensive play. However, compared to Zherdev he's a defensive god. Also, his play on the PP is phenomenal and he is very competitive. I don't get that impression from Zherdev at all.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 11:13 PM
  #55
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I really don'tunderstand the Zherdev hate. I've seriously gotten tired of it. He's been fine since the benching. No one gets on Briere for not being as strong defensively as offensively
Sarcasm?

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 11:48 PM
  #56
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sarcasm?
Somewhat. I don't think Zherdev has played as badly as people say.

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2010, 11:53 PM
  #57
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Somewhat. I don't think Zherdev has played as badly as people say.
I mean... Briere gets shredded for his defense. By yours truly amongst many others. Has ever since he got here.

Zherdev's defense isn't as notable because he plays wing, but he isn't particularly committed to playing that side of the puck.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 12:18 AM
  #58
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I mean... Briere gets shredded for his defense. By yours truly amongst many others. Has ever since he got here.

Zherdev's defense isn't as notable because he plays wing, but he isn't particularly committed to playing that side of the puck.
I know Briere gets torn apart. My point is that he gets a bit of a pass because he also contributes a lot offensively. Zherdev is a strong offensive player, I mean he's got 7 goals in limited games with even more limited ice time. I just don't know what he has to do?

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:27 AM
  #59
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I she punishing him or is it the result of a deep forward crop. There are only so many spots open.

Last night JVR and Nodl were playing really well. I don't think Zherdev played poorly but those two just played better. If you don't have defined role on this team (Shelly, Betts) then you better be playing your Agame and hope that the other 9 forwards aren't playing better then you.
This is a valid point, you have Giroux and Briere as creative puck handlers, Zherdev is great with the puck but at times he attempts to do too much. As much as it seems attractive to have eight 20 goal scorers on the team it is not always necessary to have guys who are offensive minded on the roster, especially with a defense first type coach. At some point there is a point of having too much talent and not enough minutes. I would not be surprised if Zherdev again spoke up about his minutes and Laviolette wants nothing to do with it, just use guys who know their roles and will play how he wants them to.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:18 AM
  #60
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Whoa guy. Zherdev is not even close to essential to this team. He's filler.

And just to be clear i kind of like him. I think he can take on a bigger role but even then he wouldn't be anything to lose sleep over if he left.
Here is why you're wrong:

He is filler. but to win the Cup you need both core players and filler.. not just one but both.

EXAMPLE: Versteeg and Bufflin were considered filler on Hawks. They had to let em go for cap reasons, they kept Kane-Toews and Sharp-Hossa. Those are their offensive core. BUT THEY WONT WIN the CUP this year, cuz altho you can dismiss Versteeg as filler, that filler was essential to winning the Cup last year. That 'filler' turned Chicago from a team with two powerful offensive lines and two powerful defense pairings..... to an unbeatable three powerful forward lines plus the mentioned two super defense pairings.

Zherdev is filler but is essential filler. He allows Philly to be like Hawks last year.. he provides the ability to have three strong forward lines.

DONT underestimate his importance. He is not a prototypical Philly player, he is defensively suspect, but yet .. he is needed to win a Cup.

Philly will be a great team even without him, but their chances of CUP go up with him around. Philly already made it to the Finals last year... just making it there again this year is not enough...' yawn... been there, done that'. This year they wanna win it all, and I think Z could be the difference tween just making it to the Finals versus getting there and winning it all.

I'm very very worried that Philly coach will demoralize him and thereby prevent him from doing what he can do. That could cost a Cup.

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:24 AM
  #61
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
As much as it seems attractive to have eight 20 goal scorers on the team it is not always necessary to have guys who are offensive minded on the roster, especially with a defense first type coach. At some point there is a point of having too much talent and not enough minutes. .
Agree .. not good enough if they have eight 20 goal scorers in the regular season, yet half of those eight disappear in the POs.

But eight forwards firing on all cylinders during the POs??? That's key. Some teams can contain two strong forward lines with two sytrong defense pairings. No one can contain three.

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 01:28 PM
  #62
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Agree .. not good enough if they have eight 20 goal scorers in the regular season, yet half of those eight disappear in the POs.

But eight forwards firing on all cylinders during the POs??? That's key. Some teams can contain two strong forward lines with two sytrong defense pairings. No one can contain three.
One question I have about the lineup is will the guys who will score during the regular season show up in the playoffs? Zherdev is the typical stats guy, looks great with his 20 goals, some highlite reel moves, but come crunch time he does not show up because he cannot play in that type of game.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 01:43 PM
  #63
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
The real question is this:

Is Zherdev the first player to be benched while also on Yahoo's Hot List?

Screenshot_109.jpg

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 02:27 PM
  #64
CTU2fan
Registered User
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I know Briere gets torn apart. My point is that he gets a bit of a pass because he also contributes a lot offensively. Zherdev is a strong offensive player, I mean he's got 7 goals in limited games with even more limited ice time. I just don't know what he has to do?
I think the difference is perception (and I'm one of the guys who hammers Briere for his D). When you watch Briere it's pretty clear he's lousy defensively, but it's also pretty clear that effort isn't his problem. When you watch Zherdev defensively he appears to not particularly care. And that goes right along with the reputation he came with. That's why he gets killed while Briere and others don't.

To be fair I think he's been better of late, and looks more like a guy who just isn't very good defensively as opposed to a guy who's lazy on that side of the puck.

CTU2fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 03:52 PM
  #65
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
One question I have about the lineup is will the guys who will score during the regular season show up in the playoffs? Zherdev is the typical stats guy, looks great with his 20 goals, some highlite reel moves, but come crunch time he does not show up because he cannot play in that type of game.
Very very good question.

I think he is not normally a PO type guy, but he will be useful because of the depth he is surrounded by.

He will not lead the team or carry anyone on his shoulders in the POs. But he'll probably kick in a few key goals.

Here's an example:

In the early 90s Oilers won a Cup by beating Boston Bruins. One of the keys was the Oil had more forward depth.

One forward they had was a lazy floater type with some offensive talent. He scored a key goal in the 5th overtime against the Bruins, to win a very key game.

And why did he score? Cuz he was benched thru most of the game (cuz his coach was disgusted by his lack of effort earlier), and so he was fresh in the 5th OT while everyone else was exhausted.

I am speaking, of course, of Petr Klima. (look it up, youngsters)

Point being, guys like Klima and Zherdev, when surrounded by other better talent, are needed to vault a team over the top when everyone else has run out of gas.

I could see a few PO games being won by Z in this way. Philly has plenty of forwards and Z is only paid 2 mil, so having him nailed to the bench, playing the PP and some key situations, and being fresher and rested whenever he is out .... can easily be a turning point.

If a guy is paid 4-5 mil and sits on the bench, you gnash ur teeth in rage .... and all other players get mad and demoralized by the unfairness of it all.

But 2 mil? Pffft, 4th line forwards and 6th dmen get paid that these days. Who cares if he sits and plays lesser minutes?

Most teams couldnt afford to have a guy like that. Philly can, so please take full advantage.

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 05:14 PM
  #66
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I think the difference is perception (and I'm one of the guys who hammers Briere for his D). When you watch Briere it's pretty clear he's lousy defensively, but it's also pretty clear that effort isn't his problem. When you watch Zherdev defensively he appears to not particularly care. And that goes right along with the reputation he came with. That's why he gets killed while Briere and others don't.

To be fair I think he's been better of late, and looks more like a guy who just isn't very good defensively as opposed to a guy who's lazy on that side of the puck.
No, effort is a significant problem with Briere's defensive game. He just doesn't particularly care for doing the dirty work.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 06:13 PM
  #67
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Here is why you're wrong:

He is filler. but to win the Cup you need both core players and filler.. not just one but both.

EXAMPLE: Versteeg and Bufflin were considered filler on Hawks. They had to let em go for cap reasons, they kept Kane-Toews and Sharp-Hossa. Those are their offensive core. BUT THEY WONT WIN the CUP this year, cuz altho you can dismiss Versteeg as filler, that filler was essential to winning the Cup last year. That 'filler' turned Chicago from a team with two powerful offensive lines and two powerful defense pairings..... to an unbeatable three powerful forward lines plus the mentioned two super defense pairings.

Zherdev is filler but is essential filler. He allows Philly to be like Hawks last year.. he provides the ability to have three strong forward lines.

DONT underestimate his importance. He is not a prototypical Philly player, he is defensively suspect, but yet .. he is needed to win a Cup.

Philly will be a great team even without him, but their chances of CUP go up with him around. Philly already made it to the Finals last year... just making it there again this year is not enough...' yawn... been there, done that'. This year they wanna win it all, and I think Z could be the difference tween just making it to the Finals versus getting there and winning it all.

I'm very very worried that Philly coach will demoralize him and thereby prevent him from doing what he can do. That could cost a Cup.
Wow.

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 06:15 PM
  #68
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, effort is a significant problem with Briere's defensive game. He just doesn't particularly care for doing the dirty work.
Yeah Id say Zherdev tries harder on D than Briere. All Briere does is slash people or crosscheck them

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 06:55 PM
  #69
TheDrizzle81
Registered User
 
TheDrizzle81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marlton NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,358
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TheDrizzle81
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Wow.
You said it all sir

TheDrizzle81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:13 PM
  #70
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
What did everyone think of Z tonight? It's really tough to gauge him playing on a line with Betts and Shelley, but I didn't think he looked too bad.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:17 PM
  #71
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
What did everyone think of Z tonight? It's really tough to gauge him playing on a line with Betts and Shelley, but I didn't think he looked too bad.
I agree. I love Powe, but his time in the top 9 should be over.

We could bench Shelley to get Wellwood in as an extra body, but where the hell does he play?

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Nodl
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Powe - Giroux - Zherdev
Betts - Carter - Wellwood

I double dare Lavi to try to roll four scoring lines.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:24 PM
  #72
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 13,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I agree. I love Powe, but his time in the top 9 should be over.

We could bench Shelley to get Wellwood in as an extra body, but where the hell does he play?

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Nodl
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Powe - Giroux - Zherdev
Betts - Carter - Wellwood

I double dare Lavi to try to roll four scoring lines.
I like how you think

I double dog dare Lavi to do it

Flyerfan4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2010, 12:07 AM
  #73
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,761
vCash: 500
I can see Zherdev being traded mid season. He isnt going to take 4th line minutes + always being scratched lightly. I can see a team trading a pick for him. Like a 4th

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2010, 12:47 AM
  #74
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 13,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I can see Zherdev being traded mid season. He isnt going to take 4th line minutes + always being scratched lightly. I can see a team trading a pick for him. Like a 4th

the sad part is if we trade him i BET he goes on to be the player we'd wish we had later..


Flyerfan4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2010, 02:18 AM
  #75
PhilaFlyers
Registered User
 
PhilaFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,298
vCash: 500
He's been a lot better lately

PhilaFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.