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"Return of the Death Star" - 11.22.10 - Nashville at Columbus

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Old
11-22-2010, 08:56 PM
  #51
triggrman
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As much as I've blamed Trotz in the past he's not to blame for this, this is a talent issue...

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:09 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleangene View Post
Dear Shea Weber:

Can you please start aiming for Erat's leg again since you're not aiming for the net anymore, AND to have him on the LTDL.
Dear Preds Management:
New coach was brought in for columbus...notice where they are in the standings now??
Long term IR is only beneficial for teams needing to go over the cap to replace an injured player. It is absolutely meaningless for the Preds.

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:11 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleangene View Post
Dear Shea Weber:

Can you please start aiming for Erat's leg again since you're not aiming for the net anymore, AND to have him on the LTDL.
Dear Preds Management:
New coach was brought in for columbus...notice where they are in the standings now??
Do you see any forward in a Preds uni tonight that has half the talent of Rick Nash? Coaching change will not help the lack of talent.

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:17 PM
  #54
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
As much as I've blamed Trotz in the past he's not to blame for this, this is a talent issue...
Agreed. I might blog about it this week while I have regular access to the internet. I think this team was built as well as it could have been from the end of last season. Our depth is very good, but where we've lacked depth is where we've experienced injuries...

Rinne was the first to go down, thankfully Lindback picked up the slack with little letdown. Then Erat and Lombardi go down, effectively screwing up Wilson's mojo and Goc and a couple others step up. Then Goc goes down, then Suter goes down, then Legwand goes down.

Depth is great, but this team was built around several key pieces and unfortunately our depth has not been able to adapt and come through when tested thus far this season.

We are arguably one of the least overall top-end skilled teams in the league. That's not a problem when you play a 60 minute team game and keep running line after line of depth out there to wear teams down, but the bottom line is when our skill has been diminished due to injuries or ineffectiveness...no one has been able to rise up and take the reins of opportunity.

I'd likely look to call up Lundmark from Milwaukee and send down Wilson right now to build some confidence. Lundmark can play PP minutes and is better suited for a 3rd line role at ES. Jamie also has the versatility to play both C or W and has a bit of veteran savvy about him. Wilson is in a prolonged slump right now. He started by standing around and watching the play too much, then turned it into trying too hard, and is now back to standing around and watching. A couple weeks in Milwaukee might do him wonders right now...

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:19 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
As much as I've blamed Trotz in the past he's not to blame for this, this is a talent issue...
It's also a health issue. Lombardi, Legwand, and Suter all out ... Erat not playing well since coming back ...

Hard to judge collective talent when so much of it is in street clothes every night.

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:29 PM
  #56
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So, what needs to happen to fix this team? It's pretty darn obvious that we are getting lousy execution from everyone. When is Trotz going to get mad and rip these guys a new one? I'm TIRED of mediocre play and "just getting by". I want to see some real concrete improvements in the next 10 games. If we can't get out of this rut then Trotz and company should go. They aren't getting it done. And I don't want to hear excuses about we are missing this guy or that or worse we can't afford anything better. These guys can and have played better. I want to some accountablity. And I want Trotz to stop with the "well we played hard" crap. Try acknowledging that we suck and that it might possibly have something to do with him.

And the talent thing, well try blaming Poile for being unable to find any forward depth in the last 5 drafts for us. Santorelli had 2 goals the other night and we can't get squat out of our 4.5 million ballerina (Erat).

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:32 PM
  #57
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Nick Spaling had a team worst -9 Corsi rating tonight (ES Total Shots For - ES Total Shots Against = Corsi) tonight.

Playing on the fourth line at ES, might it be time to recall Steve Begin (who was 2nd among F's last season in PK TOI for Boston) from Milwaukee and swap the two out...

Spaling was playing on a line with Klasen and Thuresson prior to his recall. Begin has been playing there since Geoffrion was concussed. I think that and swapping Wilson for Lundmark might be enough of a kick in the pants right now...

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Old
11-22-2010, 09:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Years and years of high first round picks due to outright futility have had more to do with the turnarounds in Chicago, St. Louis, and Columbus than coaching changes.

If you want to go that route, we might as well start a total rebuild and tank the next two or three years...
If y'all want to go that route, all are welcome to follow a variant of my path here and hop on the Jackets bandwagon during the rebuild.

I don't recommend it, though. Very high-stress.

Honestly, I think the only thing lacking down there is talent on offense... and there's plenty of that currently getting up to speed and in the system. I don't see a need to panic or start firing people.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:00 PM
  #59
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So glad I picked that game to go to... we have to have the highest number of shots blocked in the league.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Why is Ward on the Powerplay???? Really, why is he in the NHL?

Same reason you're not! Hater! Ward's a hardworker everynight.

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Nick Spaling had a team worst -9 Corsi rating tonight (ES Total Shots For - ES Total Shots Against = Corsi) tonight.

Playing on the fourth line at ES, might it be time to recall Steve Begin (who was 2nd among F's last season in PK TOI for Boston) from Milwaukee and swap the two out...

Spaling was playing on a line with Klasen and Thuresson prior to his recall. Begin has been playing there since Geoffrion was concussed. I think that and swapping Wilson for Lundmark might be enough of a kick in the pants right now...
You say that Spaling had a team worst -9 tonight, then you talk about swapping Wilson with Lundmark...this makes no sense!
Wilson needs confidence, and tonight I think he showed alot more than he has in a while! Not sure of exact numbers, but I can recall 2 hits, 2 blocked shots and pretty sure the defence he hit middle of first, never came back....upper body injury. He also carried the puck with confidence more than the past 4 games.
Wilson needs confidence, and with Erat, Dumont, and other vets that are " shi*&^)tting the bed, but they have HUGE salaries yet still getting load of ice time.
Erat logged over 20 minutes tonight! That makes NO SENSE. Not sure what Trotz was hoping for, but obviously he did not get it!

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:30 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
You say that Spaling had a team worst -9 tonight, then you talk about swapping Wilson with Lundmark...this makes no sense!
Wilson needs confidence, and tonight I think he showed alot more than he has in a while! Not sure of exact numbers, but I can recall 2 hits, 2 blocked shots and pretty sure the defence he hit middle of first, never came back....upper body injury. He also carried the puck with confidence more than the past 4 games.
Wilson needs confidence, and with Erat, Dumont, and other vets that are " shi*&^)tting the bed, but they have HUGE salaries yet still getting load of ice time.
Erat logged over 20 minutes tonight! That makes NO SENSE. Not sure what Trotz was hoping for, but obviously he did not get it!
I specifically said Begin for Spaling, then I went on to say that Wilson's been struggling and is being bounced around a lot right now between center and wing, different linemates nightly, etc and his confidence is suffering because of that. Since Lundmark can play both center and wing too and has made a career of being a two-way offensive forward and Wilson is waiver exempt again this season, I said I thought it might be beneficial to send him down to gain confidence in the AHL for a couple weeks and then re-evaluate from there.

Wilson's been yo-yo'd this season due to the injuries suffered by the team thus far. He started the year with Erat and Lombardi on the second scoring line and almost immediately the two of them were out for an extended period and Wilson simply hasn't really fit in anywhere since. With the Goc and Legwand injuries Wilson has been moved back and forth from wing to center and back again. I just think his development would be better served spending a little time at one position in the AHL right now to better suit him to contribute later this season and into the future.

I know that's not necessarily going to be a popular decision, but I think it might be the best for all parties...

FWIW, I'll admit to not seeing the first 17:25 tonight. Wilson was credited with a hit, but no shots on goal. The reason he's on my mind tonight was his last shift where he centered a line with SK and Ward and the three of them failed to move their feet for the whole 40 seconds they were out there. Just stood around and watched. I was disgusted and so was Trotz. None of them saw the ice again...

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Old
11-22-2010, 10:44 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I specifically said Begin for Spaling, then I went on to say that Wilson's been struggling and is being bounced around a lot right now between center and wing, different linemates nightly, etc and his confidence is suffering because of that. Since Lundmark can play both center and wing too and has made a career of being a two-way offensive forward and Wilson is waiver exempt again this season, I said I thought it might be beneficial to send him down to gain confidence in the AHL for a couple weeks and then re-evaluate from there.

Wilson's been yo-yo'd this season due to the injuries suffered by the team thus far. He started the year with Erat and Lombardi on the second scoring line and almost immediately the two of them were out for an extended period and Wilson simply hasn't really fit in anywhere since. With the Goc and Legwand injuries Wilson has been moved back and forth from wing to center and back again. I just think his development would be better served spending a little time at one position in the AHL right now to better suit him to contribute later this season and into the future.

I know that's not necessarily going to be a popular decision, but I think it might be the best for all parties...

FWIW, I'll admit to not seeing the first 17:25 tonight. Wilson was credited with a hit, but no shots on goal. The reason he's on my mind tonight was his last shift where he centered a line with SK and Ward and the three of them failed to move their feet for the whole 40 seconds they were out there. Just stood around and watched. I was disgusted and so was Trotz. None of them saw the ice again...
Just re-read your post! I stand corrected! Wilson has been yo-yoed constantly this season from center to wing with defferent players every games. He and Goc, (before Goc got injured) had great chemistry. Why Trotz did not try that again when Goc came back? Who knows!
It must be difficult to watch vets (Erat especiall, but not the only one) making mistake, after mistake and continuing to get tons of ice time. So the others, Kostytsin, Wilson, Spaling worried to make any mistakes for fear of losing it.

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Old
11-23-2010, 01:15 AM
  #64
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Could tell right away this was not going to go our way. There was not enough consistent effort from anyone other than Pekka.

Too many guys just standing around watching Columbus skate right by them.

Sullivan not even credited with an attempted shot.

At least twice tonight Tom commented on the Preds lackadaisical line changes. And it finally burned them with a bench minor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Wilson ...... I just think his development would be better served spending a little time at one position in the AHL right now to better suit him to contribute later this season and into the future.

I know that's not necessarily going to be a popular decision, but I think it might be the best for all parties...
I've heard a few people say they feel the same way. I kind of do, too. He just looks like he's afraid to make a mistake and is too tentative sometimes and not trusting himself or his abilities.

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Old
11-23-2010, 02:10 AM
  #65
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Not to take anything away from the Preds underwhelming performance, but Columbus deserves credit for playing a great game. They just swept California and are red hot. If they keep playing like they are then I see them as a top 5 team in the west.

One thing that stood out to me this game was how much more physical they were than us. They pushed us around all night like we were kids. Reminded me how soft our forwards really are.

I really want to see what our team looks like fully healthy. I think our consistency issues stem from the injuries and lack of chemistry because of all the shuffling

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Old
11-23-2010, 02:30 AM
  #66
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other thoughts

SK74 has to be the weakest Pred we've ever had. That guy gets thrown off the puck and cant initiate any contact.


I dont mind losing, you are going to lose, but this was the worst way to lose, without a single ounce of passion. There wasnt one exciting shift from out team all night. No exciting break in on goal, no Tootoo hit, no team toughness, terrible PP, bad line changes, blah blah blah.


How many shots didnt even come within 5 feet of the goal on the PP? Whats wrong with Webers radar this year? He had a couple of great feeds right into his wheelhouse.

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Old
11-23-2010, 03:04 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Years and years of high first round picks due to outright futility have had more to do with the turnarounds in Chicago, St. Louis, and Columbus than coaching changes.

If you want to go that route, we might as well start a total rebuild and tank the next two or three years...
our team is virtually the exact same as that we put out last year (with the exception of moreau who has not even been playing) so to say that the coaching and system changes are not affecting the franchise would be super innacurate.

good game, i'm glad we didn't play miserably against you guys like we normally do.

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Old
11-23-2010, 07:04 AM
  #68
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Wow. We have a ton of depth then some say, well, the wrong guys have gotten hurt. If you have great depth, it shouldn't really matter who gets hurt. We don't have top end talent and we're using that as an excuse? When have we had top end talent? We got 100 points with no top end talent last year.

We've had some bumps and bruises to key players this year, sure, but has anyone stepped up in their absence? That's what happens when guys go down, others step up to fill the void. Imagine where we'd be if O'Reilly was a bust this year?

The power play is still a wreck. We can't keep the puck in the zone long enough to do anything with it. The other thing is, guys were just standing around yet again making it easy to defend. Without motion or good puck movement, the PP is very easy to defend.

When was the last time anyone remembers a good hard check? Tootoo? Weber? Smithson? None of these guys are using their size or checking ability. Wilson is turning into Arnott version 2. Softer than Franson at this point. O'Brien, for a big kid, doesn't use his body either. All these guys seem to be easing up on checks or not following thru. How many times did Wilson have a guy lined up last night and nothing, no contact? For a kid who we thought was going to be a power forward in this league, he's a long way off. Then again, playing 4th line minutes is going to help.

Nothing was really working last night yet the lines stayed the same. On nights when things are clicking, lines are changed around.

While some say there is a talent void, I see the same things going on with this team that I've continually seen in years past. The lack of a PP is blatantly obvious and anyone who says it's players is off. The roster has changed over way too many times for it to still be the players. Maybe it is the players and Poile can't seem to put a team together that actually knows what to do with a man advantage.

Trotz talks about accountability and that he would take over the PP duties this year. Where is any sort of accountability for the lack of PP from Trotz? Many times last night the man advantage could've gotten us back in the game, yet, it never got set up or any real chances.

Columbus played a very tight game against us last night but the PP has been a major sore spot for me for quite a while. SLake, did you ever ask Trotz why he has left handed shots on the left face off dot and right handed shots on the right face off dot? I can understand movement and guys ending up there from time to time but when I see this on a regular basis it makes me really question the strategy of our coaches because guys aren't going to go there unless they are coached to go there on a regular basis. Same thing with our point men. The right and left handed shots need to be swapped to the opposite sides of regular strength play to have the one timer in play. Do they not practice this?

While I know we lack elite talent up front, this team is still the same team that got over 100 points last year. Drafting Wilson 7th overall and then playing him 4th line minutes is ridiculous. How can a 4th line player get PP time too? The logic makes no sense to me but let's keep playing Smithson big minutes and see how that turns out.

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Old
11-23-2010, 07:37 AM
  #69
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Anyone else remember when the Preds were considered a gritty and hard-working team?

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Old
11-23-2010, 07:43 AM
  #70
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Anyone else remember when the Preds were considered a gritty and hard-working team?
I remember one line working hard last night. O'Reilly, Hornqvist and Sully. Other than that, no. Sad that our smallest line is out there hustling and playing the body to some extent while guys with size don't use it. Love it.

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Old
11-23-2010, 07:45 AM
  #71
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Wanttoknow0798 View Post
Same reason you're not! Hater! Ward's a hardworker everynight.
Works hard at what? Turning the puck over?

Ward and Smithson are great 4th line wingers.

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11-23-2010, 09:01 AM
  #72
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Looking at the toi reports, please tell me it's wrong in that Joel Ward and Smithson got more pp time than GOC and SK...

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11-23-2010, 09:34 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Looking at the toi reports, please tell me it's wrong in that Joel Ward and Smithson got more pp time than GOC and SK...
well duh, it is obvious that trotz is turning to our elite scorers to jump start the power play. Smithson is, afterall, our hottest goal scorer right now.

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Old
11-23-2010, 09:36 AM
  #74
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Looking at the toi reports, please tell me it's wrong in that Joel Ward and Smithson got more pp time than GOC and SK...
Yes, it is very wrong indeed.

Oh, my bad, you weren't asking if it was wrong that Ward and Smithson get put in offensive situations by Trotz, you were asking if the stat sheets were wrong. How stupid of me.


Last edited by Preds Partisan: 11-23-2010 at 09:52 AM.
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Old
11-23-2010, 10:06 AM
  #75
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While we're all venting, I should add, now that I'm done with my mocking sarcasm of Trotz, that this was a painful reminder of the fundamental flaw in Trotz's style of coaching reflected in the PP time for Hands of Stone I (Ward) and Hands of Stone II (Smithson). Whereas in the MTL game I mentioned that Trotz went counter to his typical approach and kept offensive pressure and more offensively gifted players (at least as far as the Preds roster goes) on the ice, he's fallen back into that same old rut with trying to squeeze water from a rock. They've been rewarded with one (1) goal in two games. It makes you wonder if Trotz knows that even if the object of the game is to score more than your opponents do, that you still HAVE TO SCORE to achieve that objective.

Talent or health issues aside, whether it's road games or home games, there's still not an excuse for not giving your team the best possible opportunity to win....

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