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Whats up with swedish hockey?

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Old
11-09-2010, 03:18 AM
  #1
Coog
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Whats up with swedish hockey?

Is it just me or isnt it so that ”dirty play” just runs rampant this season? The shove in the back from Pikkarainen that sent Josh MacNevin in to the board, causin him to brake his leg, is just one of many incidents. And just the other day Janne Karlsson, coach of the second league team Växjö went ballistic at Jens Karlsson for a ugly cheap shot when he tried to take the head of an opponent with a hit in garbage time, trailing 4-1. What was it Janne called him? ”The most gutless player in swedish hockey”. Jens Karlsson only smirking, asking, ”Are you done now?”

There’s just no respect in swedish hockey these days. For my team Färjestad alone I can count four injuries caused by cheap shots. I say this, we wouldn’t have this situation if there was a Jody Shelley or Derek Boogard at the end of every bench and a five minute penalty for fighting.

The MacNevin incident just sickens me. He comes to Sweden to play hockey, hoping to do a good showing and maybe get a shot at the NHL. He ends upp with a broken leg and the whole season down the drain. I would really like to se someone make Pikkarainen eat hos own teeth.

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11-09-2010, 05:05 AM
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Get used to it

I hate to say it but I think this is a symptom of a larger problem with hockey in general nowadays.

IMO, the more you legislate on ice enforcement out of the game, the more you will have players running around cheapshotting everybody with little 'fear of reprisal' (aka "respect").

Hockey is in an identity crisis right now and losing ground fast to the "no fighting, no headshots, no intimidation" politically correct crowd led by Gary Bettman who only pay lip service to the traditions and history of the sport but have no idea of what is good for the sport long term.

They are turning hockey into a sport that only allows fast small goal scorers and are increasingly punishing, larger more physical players for using their god given physical talents. Look no further than the recent suspension (aka "$72,000 don't be too big and strong tax") on Joe Thornton for an example of the "New NHL".

I even see it at my kids 11 year old pee wee hockey games. My kid ( a very large, decently talented and much stronger player) is routinely penalized not so much for actual penalties, but because when he does decide to be physical, he is effective and it usually looks dramatic (i.e. Other kid falls down).
USA refs are now in the protection business for smaller players who, in the old days, probably would have picked a less dangerous sport.

All in the name of "letting the scoters score" to make the sport so much better, we are losing one of the natural laws of the game which is unless your opponents fear retaliation at some level, there will be an undercurrent of disrespect among players and an increasing number of cheapshot injuries that go unpunished. Sounds Neandrathalithic to many but it worked for many years before Gaey Bettmann came along.


Last edited by goodguy: 11-09-2010 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Spell check
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Old
11-09-2010, 06:42 AM
  #3
joe89
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Hockey is more competitive these days too, players are pushing the limits to keep their jobs and/or take another step in their careers. Yeah I don't like the current path we are walking in Sweden either, but at the same time I don't see it changing anytime soon. Fighting likely won't ever be a part of hockey here, c'mon you even need a special exempt to host professional boxing events and professional MMA-events aren't even allowed afaik.

I would love for it to change, that we would welcome fighting face to face with a 5 or 10 minute penalty and let the players handle cheapshots themselves, but I don't see it happening.

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11-09-2010, 08:18 AM
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Coog
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Hockey is more competitive these days too, players are pushing the limits to keep their jobs and/or take another step in their careers. Yeah I don't like the current path we are walking in Sweden either, but at the same time I don't see it changing anytime soon. Fighting likely won't ever be a part of hockey here, c'mon you even need a special exempt to host professional boxing events and professional MMA-events aren't even allowed afaik.

I would love for it to change, that we would welcome fighting face to face with a 5 or 10 minute penalty and let the players handle cheapshots themselves, but I don't see it happening.
Well I have a hard time seeing that as well, at least in the SEL but maybe that league will not be around for much longer if this new European League actually becomes a reallity. I don’t know this for a fact but I think Sweden has the most restrictive rules in the whole of Europe when it comes to fighting, and if we want to be a part of the new Euro League we will have to adjust to a new set of rules. I don’t know what the big wigs who are planing this league thinks but they have a real chance here, starting from scratch and dictate the ”identity” of European hockey. Just hope they dont take that responsibility lightly.

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Old
11-09-2010, 03:42 PM
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Don't see how to fix it. Add more protection probably won't do anything but allow players to play even harder and reckless than before. Add special rules and there will still be situations that happen in the heat of the moment or players that just don't care and do it anyway, but since headshots/hits from behind isn't legal, fewer players are actually prepared for it to happen to them anymore.

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11-10-2010, 07:50 AM
  #6
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Don't see how to fix it. Add more protection probably won't do anything but allow players to play even harder and reckless than before. Add special rules and there will still be situations that happen in the heat of the moment or players that just don't care and do it anyway, but since headshots/hits from behind isn't legal, fewer players are actually prepared for it to happen to them anymore.
Well, this is a solution. One that will never see the light of day though.

"I say this, we wouldn’t have this situation if there was a Jody Shelley or Derek Boogard at the end of every bench and a five minute penalty for fighting."

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Old
11-10-2010, 11:45 AM
  #7
Ola
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Would you care to explain what on earth you guys are talking about???

I mean, quite a lot of games have been played and you see situations like you don't see the situations you guys have talked about once in a while in the game hockey. Like -- wow -- a player hit another player late in a game. Larsson was cut by a visor in a weak fight. Lol

Like sure, Ekman caught a bad knee on knee for example for sure, and like if we had seen 10 of 'em I would understand where you are comming from...

In general, I would describe the hockeyseason so far to be uneventful, with little emotions, extremely little hitting et c et c et c. (as usual)

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11-18-2010, 05:45 PM
  #8
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I dont think that is dirty play. It is a combination of that they want to play tough, they dont know what they cant or can do becuse of the refs, alot of the players aint used to the new tough play and the ice is large.
The gamestyle that is currently being born in Elitserien is more suited for a smaller size on the rinks.

Mäntymaa wouldnt have had a concussion and Josh Macnevin wouldnt have have injured his leg if Elitserien would have had nhlsize on their rinks.

Its time to change. The ice is too big.

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Old
11-19-2010, 01:06 PM
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For whatever it is worth, I really think its a reflection of Swedish hockey having failed to progress over the years.

The game has gotten tighter and more physical for quite some time, but the Swedes keep playing puck possession hockey on the perimeter, and no, it's not only BÅG in Tre Kronor. It looks the same in the SEL in various degrees pretty much across the board.

It's time to drop the damn bandy and soccer culture. Checking and taking a check is a skill! However, most of the time when we discuss skill development, we refer to skating, stickhandling, passing and shooting, but true understanding of the game around the boards and the "dirty areas" is not focused on.

We see some late hits, this is true, and we also see poor heads up and readiness to take a hit. When looking at the SEL, its lack of physical play is disturbing. On the other hand, there is an abundance of dirty and cheap jack moves going on... and when listening to media and hockey experts talk, the cowardly jack moves are defended and celebrated as "it's a tough sport" vs. condemnding it and teach people to keep the elbows down and lead with a shoulder.

On the other hand, it also goes the other way. One of the most rampant examples of this is a hit that became big news because the D-man got injured. Someone in AIK finished a check on a Leksand defender (a Finnish guy nevertheless) a few years ago in Allsvenskan (I'll use this example to avoid any recent incidents that may still have people on edge). The AIK forward simply finished his check, as he is supposed to do, on the LIF D-man behind the net, and the defenseman, who really should have known that the hit was coming, decides to turn to the boards and reverse the play. As a result, a good, harmless check turned into a massacre with a bunch of blood, hoopla and an injured defenseman. It was completely uncalled for, but somehow 99% of all the Swedish hockey experts blamed the forechecking forward and not the defenseman.

Anyway, that was just one example, but I see this lack of basic fundementals in physical play shine through all the time in Swedish hockey. Fortunately, there are still very few accidents. The point is that we would need to coach and practice hitting and board play to keep up and stay and play safe in the mordern style of hockey. Hitting is a skill, and a poor skill level in that area usually means that we see compensation with stick work and/or crazy hits with all the injuries that come along with that.


Last edited by Ribban: 11-19-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
11-20-2010, 12:27 PM
  #10
KRM
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Anton Hedman deserves a long suspension...

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11-22-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRM View Post
Anton Hedman deserves a long suspension...
About 3 games would be appropriate. But considering how media has gone ape **** about his alleged recidivism the last couple days I wouldn't be surprised if that affects the lottery committee into giving him some humongous amount of games, just to "prove" something.

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11-22-2010, 04:03 PM
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About 3 games would be appropriate. But considering how media has gone ape **** about his alleged recidivism the last couple days I wouldn't be surprised if that affects the lottery committee into giving him some humongous amount of games, just to "prove" something.
He's been playing reckless without any regard to his peers saftey, and now also with intent to injure. He deserves much more then three games.

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11-22-2010, 05:00 PM
  #13
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Just saw it (thanks to HWC for the clip)

That was an brutal elbow by Hedman, i would say 5 games minimum.



Last edited by Lexus: 11-22-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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11-22-2010, 05:55 PM
  #14
SurMartin
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I'd say five games, neither more nor less.
He plays recklessly overall and that elbow was nasty, but you still can't suspend him for stuff he got freed of earlier..

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11-24-2010, 12:33 PM
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Ribban
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I'd say five games, neither more nor less.
He plays recklessly overall and that elbow was nasty, but you still can't suspend him for stuff he got freed of earlier..
Great point! Media and the experts are all over him for just that.

Personally, I like Hedman's intensity. The hit leaves a little something to be desired. However, from that the kids are mini-mites, we teach them that hockey is played 20x3 minutes, not 20x2 + 18. Play hard. Play with your head up. Have a bad game, do something to light a spark for next game, etc.

Hedman plays with his heart on his sleeve, and sometimes he messes up. It's not because he is crazy. It's because he is reckless due to having more will than he has skill in that area, and that's when bad things like this happens. Ad nauseum, the opponents feel entitled to not getting hit in the last minutes of the game and glide around on one skate, just because that's how they think it should be... I have a problem with that! Hit the snot out of people like that. The more the better!

I see where people are coming from, but those who argue for smaller rinks, more physical play, and a tighter game in general, should take a peek at:
1. If Hedman had better checking skills, would this happen?
2. If people were taught how to absorb checks and knew they are always subject to be in someone's crossheir, would this happen?
3. If people played every minute of every game with great intensity, would this happen?

I don't see for a second how Hedman is the only witch to be burned here.

...and Poork is running his mouth as usual.... Nothing but a double talking Pillsbury Boy. How about a bike ride and a viper to toughen people up and remove their sense of entitlement?!?! U might fare well from joining in on that picnic. I guess Poorky is too busy shooting Norrlands Guld commercials and writing about the problem with drinking in Swedish hockey.

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11-24-2010, 01:07 PM
  #16
bottomofthefoodchain
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Dirty elbow from Hedman, but no need to go ape **** over it like some of these so called experts.
Suspend him, next.

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11-24-2010, 02:23 PM
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SurMartin
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Quote:
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..I guess Poorky is too busy shooting Norrlands Guld commercials and writing about the problem with drinking in Swedish hockey.
Hey! don't disrespect Norrlands Guld, some of those guys are big fans of my team!

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Old
11-24-2010, 05:11 PM
  #18
joe89
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Hey! don't disrespect Norrlands Guld, some of those guys are big fans of my team!
And I'm a big fan of their beer

Anyways, a three game suspension was about right to me. I don't mind suspensions for these things, it's giving players extra games for fighting that pisses me off BIGTIME. What a sissy league. Did anyone see that lame excuse of a scrum after the elbow? Hedman can fight, please stand up for your team mates..

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