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Old
11-26-2010, 09:02 AM
  #26
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lol nice title

this place & the french commenteriat went NUTS when a freaking french-canadian AHL goalie was traded

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11-26-2010, 09:04 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Personally I never lost much sleep over it but for those who did, here's a reality check:

Cedrik Desjardins in the AHL


6-4-1 2.60 .898

Kari Rammo in the KHL

14-4-2 1,91 .926
I'm still laughing about one of the Montreal Media morons saying taht they traded him because they were afraid he'd take Price's job.

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Originally Posted by RNiner View Post
With Carey as our #1 for the next 50224570487 years, who cares about any goalie prospect? They have minimal trade value because everyone has a few (see Halak, Jaro) and finding a backup goalie is probably the easiest thing to find in professional sports.

I wish Ramo and Cedric the best, but neither has any relevance at all.
Ramo could be our Mike Smith, play here and do well then we can trade him somewhere for Brad Richard-esque return

Seriously, even if goalie is an area of strength you want depth as much as possible and a plan B or C in case Price turns into Dipietro(injuries) or something happens and he wants out.

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Originally Posted by Habstastic View Post
I don't think Ramo will come to NA to become a backup goalie for Price - especially considering the amount of games the Habs are starting Price.
If he was Russian I could see that, but I'm sure he wants to be an NHL #1 and for taht he'd have to come back over.

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Old
11-26-2010, 09:13 AM
  #28
uiCk
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funniest prospects in years: Desharnais and Desjardins; undrafted but expected to become valuable NHL players for some reason

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Old
11-26-2010, 09:29 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
funniest prospects in years: Desharnais and Desjardins; undrafted but expected to become valuable NHL players for some reason
french speaking players have more potential than everyone else in the eyes of the french media you should know this already.

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Old
11-26-2010, 09:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Also a league where Pierre Dagenais was one of the top goal scorers. Yes, I know Dagenais isn't there this year but he was a goal scorer there last year.
Pierre Dagenais : 54 GP, 9 G, 11 A

Best goal scorer in KHL in 09-10 : Marcel Hossa (!) with 35 goals.

Yeah, one of the top goal scorers...

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Old
11-26-2010, 09:52 AM
  #31
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Not to hijack the thread but Ryan McDonagh & Pavel Valentenko arent doing anything either:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/csl.php?tid=6055

oh and Chris Higgins:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62984

Seems like the majorityof players we've traded lately dont pan out to well.

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Old
11-26-2010, 09:55 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MrExpos View Post
Pierre Dagenais : 54 GP, 9 G, 11 A

Best goal scorer in KHL in 09-10 : Marcel Hossa (!) with 35 goals.

Yeah, one of the top goal scorers...
Again though how is the number of goals that occur relevant really when the comparison is 3rd versus 34th. Yeah the stats in GAA and SV% will be different but still being 3rd in a league that allows less goals to happen >>>>> being 34th in a league that allows many more. It's common sense as we are in fact comparing a league that has superior talent or if you're a real homer at the very least equal.

Who cares what their GAA and SV% comparisons are, one is at the top of his league and the other isn't, that to me is telling enough regardless of which league scores more goals etc.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:04 AM
  #33
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It was always a marginal goalie prospect for a marginal goalie prospect.

I enjoyed all the angst it created though.

Good to see Ramo playing well.

Sad to see Desjardins not playing well, he always seemed like a good guy. He was hurt in camp though, so it takes goalies a while to get together after that.

Still thought it was a good trade though.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:09 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
It was always a marginal goalie prospect for a marginal goalie prospect.

I enjoyed all the angst it created though.

Good to see Ramo playing well.

Sad to see Desjardins not playing well, he always seemed like a good guy. He was hurt in camp though, so it takes goalies a while to get together after that.

Still thought it was a good trade though.
Ramo has a lot more upside than Desjardins. Remains to be seen if he can put it all together and develop into an average or better starter like a Vokoun or Quick. I don't see Desjardins with that upside, he's a Legacy type who might get a few looks when injuries hit or spend a year or two as a back up. Ultimately he'll end up in Europe somewhere.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:10 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Again though how is the number of goals that occur relevant really when the comparison is 3rd versus 34th. Yeah the stats in GAA and SV% will be different but still being 3rd in a league that allows less goals to happen >>>>> being 34th in a league that allows many more. It's common sense as we are in fact comparing a league that has superior talent or if you're a real homer at the very least equal.

Who cares what their GAA and SV% comparisons are, one is at the top of his league and the other isn't, that to me is telling enough regardless of which league scores more goals etc.
Desjardins is crap at pro level. The only reason this guy made it is because the Habs always sign random junior goalie from the Q, just like they did with Peter Delmas this summer. I was just bringing up that Dagenais wasn't one of the top goal scorers in the KHL like the other poster was saying.

I like this trade. Just like another poster said, I think Ramo has sleeper potential and the fact that he doesn't have a contract for this year is a good thing for the club. With Bobrovsky's season in Philly, who was good in the KHL in the last 2 seasons, NHL teams in need of a goalie may look at someone like Ramo as a low risk/high reward type of player to patch their problem in net.

Anyway, this trade is just asset management by both club who got what they needed by helping each other.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:12 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Ramo has a lot more upside than Desjardins. Remains to be seen if he can put it all together and develop into an average or better starter like a Vokoun or Quick. I don't see Desjardins with that upside, he's a Legacy type who might get a few looks when injuries hit or spend a year or two as a back up. Ultimately he'll end up in Europe somewhere.
In true Habs fashion, I think you're overestimating one and under estimating the other.

Desjardins has shown enough to be a marginal NHL prospect. He looks like he could develop into an NHL backup, and then with luck, any backup can find their groove.

Ramo looks about the same.

I prefer Ramo, to be honest. He's younger and was unfairly judged when brought along way too fast by Tampa, but I don't think the trade was anything but fair.

Fact is, Tampa needed a live body to shore up their depth this year. Montreal needed to shed one.

That's all this trade was about.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:15 AM
  #37
Pierre Dagenais
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Also a league where Pierre Dagenais was one of the top goal scorers. Yes, I know Dagenais isn't there this year but he was a goal scorer there last year.

And wow, Ramo had a good stretch of games. That looks good, sure. But with so few games, he could easily fall easily.

Maybe he's just a better goalie overseas. Not including this years stats (as they haven't been updated on TSN);

Ramo;
NHL - .895, 3.35, 48 GP
AHL - .897, 3.38, 77 GP
KHL - .913, 2.11, 44 GP

Yup, he sure looks great in North America!

For comparison, Desjardins;
AHL - .917, 2.34, 92 GP
ECHL - .923, 2.33, 67 GP
Pierre Dagenais wasn't a top scorer in the KHL. He had 14 goals and 9 goals in two seasons.

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Old
11-26-2010, 10:25 AM
  #38
Lucius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Also a league where Pierre Dagenais was one of the top goal scorers. Yes, I know Dagenais isn't there this year but he was a goal scorer there last year.

And wow, Ramo had a good stretch of games. That looks good, sure. But with so few games, he could easily fall easily.

Maybe he's just a better goalie overseas. Not including this years stats (as they haven't been updated on TSN);

Ramo;
NHL - .895, 3.35, 48 GP
AHL - .897, 3.38, 77 GP
KHL - .913, 2.11, 44 GP

Yup, he sure looks great in North America!

For comparison, Desjardins;
AHL - .917, 2.34, 92 GP
ECHL - .923, 2.33, 67 GP
It's a very different league, but generally regarded by everyone on the planet as the best league outside the NHL.

If you disagree, that's your right, but you're basically arguing that the ocean isn't real as far as I'm concerned.

It's an absurd argument.

Also: To Post above me. What's with the forum title. Gordie Howe is very much alive.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:02 AM
  #39
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Ramo's stats don't matter...

The guy will stay in Russia next season. Especially if Price is in goal for 70 games and win some silver trophies. Ramo won't come over to play 15 games a year.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:07 AM
  #40
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Always been an intriguing trade, I hoped Desjardins might become something, but then Ramo played very well against us.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:07 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Ramo's stats don't matter...

The guy will stay in Russia next season. Especially if Price is in goal for 70 games and win some silver trophies. Ramo won't come over to play 15 games a year.
Apparently you're friends with him?

I wish people would stop stating their opinions on what someone was thinking as pure fact.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:12 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Apparently you're friends with him?

I wish people would stop stating their opinions on what someone was thinking as pure fact.
This board is made to express speculations and discuss. No one of us is linked closely to any pro organizations.

But, put yourself in Ramo's shoes. Would you sign with the Habs if you knew that you will back up the best NHL goalie who's gonna play 90% of the games ? While you are still young and the kingpin in goal on your KHL team ?

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:17 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
This board is made to express speculations and discuss. No one of us is linked closely to any pro organizations.

But, put yourself in Ramo's shoes. Would you sign with the Habs if you knew that you will back up the best NHL goalie who's gonna play 90% of the games ? While you are still young and the kingpin in goal on your KHL team ?
I know, and your point isn't invalid. But global statements of made up facts are not helpful to a discussion. I'm probably just being cranky. Pet peeve! =)

Anyway, to your point, I think he would if his goal is to play in the NHL. Three things: One is that Price might play 70 games with Auld, but would he with Ramo? Clearly Ramo would aim to play more. Two, let me introduce you to Jaroslav Halak. Anything is possible. I doubt he is the kind of prospect that ever steals Price's job, but there are loads of backups who do extremely well each year and steal jobs (Rask stole the Vezina trophy winner's last year, then the "washed up" Thomas stole it back this year). You're not a hockey player unless you think that can be you. The third is injuries.

It all depends on Ramo's desire to be in the NHL. He has only this year left on his contract, and if the Habs let Auld walk, I am sure he'd consider signing as our backup. He is Finish remember, I doubt his dream was to conquer Russian hockey.

In fact, I would suspect his real dream is to play at the Olympics. If I were him and thought I had a chance, the next step after a good KHL season is to get back in the NHL. Even if Montreal ultimately is just a stepping stone (one good season as a backup, then moved to a team that puts him in a 1A/1B situation) for him, it's still his only plausible route to that team.

The bigger question is whether Montreal would commit to him as a backup on a one way deal? If he keeps performing like this, I suspect the answer is yes.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:36 AM
  #44
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How's Robert Mayer doing this year? As far as the Dogs are concerned, a Desjardins-Sanford tandem would be better. Also Desjardins was showing some signs of improvement as the years pass by. We can say that he lost his spot in the playoffs last year....still ended up with 1 more game played than Sanford who ends up being 6 years older than Desjardins. But it all goes back to if we will ever see Ramo. And it's also about Mayer being a true question mark. The depth, AS OF NOW, would be better served with Desjardins. We will see about the future.

But I would also wait before serving us some stats. I do remember not so long ago how Halak was finally a terrible goalie.....until the last 2 games when strangely we don't hear it anymore. Yes, Cédric doesn't have the start he should have. Ramo is doing well. So far, so good. But it doesn't mean a whole lot as far as what the future holds.

Potentially? A great deal for us.

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Old
11-26-2010, 11:43 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How's Robert Mayer doing this year? As far as the Dogs are concerned, a Desjardins-Sanford tandem would be better. Also Desjardins was showing some signs of improvement as the years pass by. We can say that he lost his spot in the playoffs last year....still ended up with 1 more game played than Sanford who ends up being 6 years older than Desjardins. But it all goes back to if we will ever see Ramo. And it's also about Mayer being a true question mark. The depth, AS OF NOW, would be better served with Desjardins. We will see about the future.

But I would also wait before serving us some stats. I do remember not so long ago how Halak was finally a terrible goalie.....until the last 2 games when strangely we don't hear it anymore. Yes, Cédric doesn't have the start he should have. Ramo is doing well. So far, so good. But it doesn't mean a whole lot as far as what the future holds.
Actually you do raise one interesting point.

Mayer has really not been good on paper at least in Hamilton, whereas Delmas was pretty good in his limited time. They seem to be having issues finding Delmas a place to play (he got sent from Hamilton to the CHL, and no, not that one).

In two games, Delmas had 1.92 / .933... Mayer is 3.23 / .872 in 9 games.

Too soon to flip them, but while both were free agent signings, Delmas was once a highly regarded prospect and high draft pick that got derailed by injuries.

I might look at completely flipping them if Delmas picks up his game in the CHL and Mayer continues to struggle.

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Old
11-26-2010, 12:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
funniest prospects in years: Desharnais and Desjardins; undrafted but expected to become valuable NHL players for some reason
Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
french speaking players have more potential than everyone else in the eyes of the french media you should know this already.
Disgraceful post is disgraceful.

Desharnais was 5th in points (78, franchise record) in the AHL last year and is 6th this year. He set a franchise record for points in post-season (23). Was also a top-5 in points in his last two seasons in the QMJHL. Can his play translate into NHL success, that still remain to be seen but it's nothing to laugh at. Do you think being 5'7" has something to do with not being drafted? And since MTL smurf contingent is already fulfilled, I can't see him getting a chance in MTL. Maybe TBL would be interested?

Desjardais was one of the better goalie in the AHL (GAA 2.00, 1st) last year, setting a few Bulldogs records along the way (29 Wins, 6 SO - tied w/ Halak). More importantly, in every league he's played in (QMJHL, ECHL, AHL), he has progressed from one year to another. Is there anything wrong with hoping he could play in the NHL, even as a backup? I mean it's not like the Mike McKenna, Mike Brodeur, or Dany Sabourin are world aparts from him and they've all played in the NHL. Again, I think his opportunities will be better away from MTL.

The simple fact that there are plenty of stats and facts to defend those two players should tell you something, if it doesn't then I can't help you.

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11-26-2010, 12:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Disgraceful post is disgraceful.

Desharnais was 5th in points (78, franchise record) in the AHL last year and is 6th this year. He set a franchise record for points in post-season (23). Was also a top-5 in points in his last two seasons in the QMJHL. Can his play translate into NHL success, that still remain to be seen but it's nothing to laugh at. Do you think being 5'7" has something to do with not being drafted? And since MTL smurf contingent is already fulfilled, I can't see him getting a chance in MTL. Maybe TBL would be interested?

Desjardais was one of the better goalie in the AHL (GAA 2.00, 1st) last year, setting a few Bulldogs records along the way (29 Wins, 6 SO - tied w/ Halak). More importantly, in every league he's played in (QMJHL, ECHL, AHL), he has progressed from one year to another. Is there anything wrong with hoping he could play in the NHL, even as a backup? I mean it's not like the Mike McKenna, Mike Brodeur, or Dany Sabourin are world aparts from him and they've all played in the NHL. Again, I think his opportunities will be better away from MTL.

The simple fact that there are plenty of stats and facts to defend those two players should tell you something, if it doesn't then I can't help you.
Don't try to argue with these two. They are the two most anti-Francophones on this Habs board. I am always wandering why they pick Les Canadiens de Montréal as their favourite team... There is 29 other teams outside Quebec to choose from.

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Old
11-26-2010, 12:15 PM
  #48
uiCk
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Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Disgraceful post is disgraceful.

Desharnais was 5th in points (78, franchise record) in the AHL last year and is 6th this year. He set a franchise record for points in post-season (23). Was also a top-5 in points in his last two seasons in the QMJHL. Can his play translate into NHL success, that still remain to be seen but it's nothing to laugh at. Do you think being 5'7" has something to do with not being drafted? And since MTL smurf contingent is already fulfilled, I can't see him getting a chance in MTL. Maybe TBL would be interested?

Desjardais was one of the better goalie in the AHL (GAA 2.00, 1st) last year, setting a few Bulldogs records along the way (29 Wins, 6 SO - tied w/ Halak). More importantly, in every league he's played in (QMJHL, ECHL, AHL), he has progressed from one year to another. Is there anything wrong with hoping he could play in the NHL, even as a backup? I mean it's not like the Mike McKenna, Mike Brodeur, or Dany Sabourin are world aparts from him and they've all played in the NHL. Again, I think his opportunities will be better away from MTL.

The simple fact that there are plenty of stats and facts to defend those two players should tell you something, if it doesn't then I can't help you.
disgracefull because two undrafted, close to nil NHL games, are being called over hyped? i can go on and defend Corey Locke too, whoopdewoop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Don't try to argue with these two. They are the two most anti-Francophones on this Habs board. I am always wandering why they pick Les Canadiens de Montréal as their favourite team... There is 29 other teams outside Quebec to choose from.
1st, franco comment was not made by me.
2nd, not my fault if that is the reality, franco players will get more exposure here, thus leading to overhyped players; still overhyped at the end of the day.
3d Stop being so defenisve, this was not meant as a personal attack; learn to keep your emotions in check.


Last edited by uiCk: 11-26-2010 at 12:21 PM.
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Old
11-26-2010, 12:21 PM
  #49
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I love this board.

They keep *****ing about the French media, how they seem to have an affinity with Francophone players and how irrational their coverage is. Also, whenever someone dares question Jesus Price, you get hit with "Haters gonna hate".

But then, they make threads like this one to say "Cedrick Desjardins was overrated, he's clearly a bad hockey player, the only reason people talked about him is because he's French".

Now, I'm not saying that he maybe wasn't a bit overhyped, but the same can be said about every prospect we have.

Except that when you say "J.T. Wyman is a great defensive specialist", or "Ryan Russell is a good energy guy", or "Ben Maxwell is a great all around player", or "Alexander Avtsin will compete for a spot on the Habs this year", or "Andreas Engvist could become a great checking player", or "Ryan O'Byrne is a great physical defenseman", or "Kyle Chipchura is a great defensive prospect", or "Janne Lahti will play with Koivu", or "Alexander Perezhogin is better than Ovechkin", then that's okay.

But if you dare say that "David Desharnais is a great offensive player", that he should be the first callup, than you'd like to see him in the NHL, even if he has the stats to back it up, then you're just being a French loving frog.

You people do know that Cedrick Desjardins had great stats for the past two seasons in Hamilton, right? And that it could seem questionable to trade him for a guy who was horrible in the NHL and AHL, who's now in Russia and who doesn't seem to want to come back to North America?

But no, giving any credit to a French speaking player is obviously overhyping him because of his language, since none of our other prospects ever get overrated.

People overrate prospects ALL the time. It has nothing to do with being French, English, Russian, whatever. Most prospects NEVER pan out, but a lot of people still believed in them at one point, still thought that they had something to offer.

The only point of this thread is to say "HA-HA French media, told you so!", which really is a lot more "Hater gonna Hate" than anything else. I could make countless threads about "HA-HA told you x player won't pan out", so what?? Does that make me better? Does it make me a bigger man?

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Old
11-26-2010, 12:26 PM
  #50
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Apparently you're friends with him?

I wish people would stop stating their opinions on what someone was thinking as pure fact.
He's right. Ramo stated he wants to play if he comes back over.

At first, I thought Ramo was Riku Helenius

I did a lot of that, I thought Boyd was Prust.

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