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Old
11-26-2010, 12:42 PM
  #51
saints96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
I love this board.

They keep *****ing about the French media, how they seem to have an affinity with Francophone players and how irrational their coverage is. Also, whenever someone dares question Jesus Price, you get hit with "Haters gonna hate".

But then, they make threads like this one to say "Cedrick Desjardins was overrated, he's clearly a bad hockey player, the only reason people talked about him is because he's French".
Now, I'm not saying that he maybe wasn't a bit overhyped, but the same can be said about every prospect we have.

Except that when you say "J.T. Wyman is a great defensive specialist", or "Ryan Russell is a good energy guy", or "Ben Maxwell is a great all around player", or "Alexander Avtsin will compete for a spot on the Habs this year", or "Andreas Engvist could become a great checking player", or "Ryan O'Byrne is a great physical defenseman", or "Kyle Chipchura is a great defensive prospect", or "Janne Lahti will play with Koivu", or "Alexander Perezhogin is better than Ovechkin", then that's okay.

But if you dare say that "David Desharnais is a great offensive player", that he should be the first callup, than you'd like to see him in the NHL, even if he has the stats to back it up, then you're just being a French loving frog.

You people do know that Cedrick Desjardins had great stats for the past two seasons in Hamilton, right? And that it could seem questionable to trade him for a guy who was horrible in the NHL and AHL, who's now in Russia and who doesn't seem to want to come back to North America?

But no, giving any credit to a French speaking player is obviously overhyping him because of his language, since none of our other prospects ever get overrated.

People overrate prospects ALL the time. It has nothing to do with being French, English, Russian, whatever. Most prospects NEVER pan out, but a lot of people still believed in them at one point, still thought that they had something to offer.

The only point of this thread is to say "HA-HA French media, told you so!", which really is a lot more "Hater gonna Hate" than anything else. I could make countless threads about "HA-HA told you x player won't pan out", so what?? Does that make me better? Does it make me a bigger man?

You really wanna compare C.Desjardins talent and upside with Prices, you really wanna go there?? And if you are gonna sit there and honestly tell me that you think the french media wudda made the same big deal about trading Desjardins if he wasnt a french canadian, then you're either full of **** or very naive.

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11-26-2010, 12:49 PM
  #52
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I only wish we had kept Ced for Hamilton but like someone posted above, why would Ramo come over here to back Carey up for a few games a season.

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11-26-2010, 01:02 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
You really wanna compare C.Desjardins talent and upside with Prices, you really wanna go there??
lol if I could do a FYP it would look like this


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricefanboy
Oh noes someone compared my saviour and hero Carey Price to Desjardins. How dare you!



Don't worry Carey, I'm coming to rescue your reputation because I'm so insecure I can't let your play on the ice speak for itself
sorry I couldn't resist


Last edited by macavoy: 11-26-2010 at 01:03 PM. Reason: if you took the time to read his post, you'd realize he wasn't comparing him to Price
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Old
11-26-2010, 01:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
lol @ getting yanked immediately after

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:05 PM
  #55
saints96
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
lol if I could do a FYP it would look like this




sorry I couldn't resist
FYP?

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11-26-2010, 01:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
FYP?
On most internet forums, FYP is Fixed Your Post, where you go and change a word or two of the person's quote to make it funny / mean something else, usually the opposite.

But its against the forum rules here to do so, so I had to totally change it.

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
I love this board.

They keep *****ing about the French media, how they seem to have an affinity with Francophone players and how irrational their coverage is. Also, whenever someone dares question Jesus Price, you get hit with "Haters gonna hate".

But then, they make threads like this one to say "Cedrick Desjardins was overrated, he's clearly a bad hockey player, the only reason people talked about him is because he's French".

Now, I'm not saying that he maybe wasn't a bit overhyped, but the same can be said about every prospect we have.

Except that when you say "J.T. Wyman is a great defensive specialist", or "Ryan Russell is a good energy guy", or "Ben Maxwell is a great all around player", or "Alexander Avtsin will compete for a spot on the Habs this year", or "Andreas Engvist could become a great checking player", or "Ryan O'Byrne is a great physical defenseman", or "Kyle Chipchura is a great defensive prospect", or "Janne Lahti will play with Koivu", or "Alexander Perezhogin is better than Ovechkin", then that's okay.

But if you dare say that "David Desharnais is a great offensive player", that he should be the first callup, than you'd like to see him in the NHL, even if he has the stats to back it up, then you're just being a French loving frog.

You people do know that Cedrick Desjardins had great stats for the past two seasons in Hamilton, right? And that it could seem questionable to trade him for a guy who was horrible in the NHL and AHL, who's now in Russia and who doesn't seem to want to come back to North America?

But no, giving any credit to a French speaking player is obviously overhyping him because of his language, since none of our other prospects ever get overrated.

People overrate prospects ALL the time. It has nothing to do with being French, English, Russian, whatever. Most prospects NEVER pan out, but a lot of people still believed in them at one point, still thought that they had something to offer.

The only point of this thread is to say "HA-HA French media, told you so!", which really is a lot more "Hater gonna Hate" than anything else. I could make countless threads about "HA-HA told you x player won't pan out", so what?? Does that make me better? Does it make me a bigger man?
Doesn't the ridiculousness of your post ironically just prove everything they've been saying right all along? No offense but clearly haters gonna hate.

A guy named "La Grosse Tendresse" defending the French media? The irony here is that you make yourself out to be one of those people that's brainwashed by the likes of RDS etc. I'm not saying a French player can't be hyped but what does Price have to do with any of this? Are you a pro-Lats Price-hater who likes a player more and thinks they're better because they're French? I mean come on, you basically are saying it's alright to think one player is going to be better than another cause of the language they speak then if you're saying it isn't okay for people to poke fun at how RDS always overhypes French players.

I'm really not trying to be mean but you must live in some kind of bubble if you actually don't believe RDS overvalues Francophone players over non-francophone players. I'm not saying they don't have a right to be excited about a player because he's French, everyone wants their home town boys to play their best and wishes them all the best. But when you're constantly over-hyping players of the same culture and not over-hyping players of any other background then yeah it is stupid and it deserves to be made fun of.

I can't say I blame posters on here for calling them out on their stupidity. I don't really see why you defend their stupidity. I think the English media is stupid too and I bash them all the time, it's just not often that it happens with something related to the habs/sports because I watch RDS for hockey. You can find numerous threads where I bash English media outlets though. If media people act like a bunch of baffoons I don't see why you should be defending them. If they would actually take the time to hype up other players rather than just assuming every Franco player is the next Mario Lemieux maybe I'd take them a little more seriously.

PS: The Minnesota forums called, they want their #1 fan back.

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11-26-2010, 01:11 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
On most internet forums, FYP is Fixed Your Post, where you go and change a word or two of the person's quote to make it funny / mean something else, usually the opposite.

But its against the forum rules here to do so, so I had to totally change it.
i honestly dont know what the point of your post is. But if you're trying to use that reply to suggest that im insecure about Price or something of that manner, a) its not funny and b) you could not be more wrong. And if you're not suggsting that, well then your post went completley over my head.

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11-26-2010, 01:17 PM
  #59
La Grosse Tendresse
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post


You really wanna compare C.Desjardins talent and upside with Prices, you really wanna go there?? And if you are gonna sit there and honestly tell me that you think the french media wudda made the same big deal about trading Desjardins if he wasnt a french canadian, then you're either full of **** or very naive.
What the ****?!

Have you even read my post?!

Where do I compare Desjardins with Price?!

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11-26-2010, 01:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
What the ****?!

Have you even read my post?!

Where do I compare Desjardins with Price?!
Sorry wrong choice of words on my part. You cannot compare the hype people have on Price and the hype the french media has on Desjardins. Price is a first rounder, IS playing in the NHl and has been for 3-4 years now and has performed really well thus far and he has way more talent(obviously). Desjardins is only hyped by rds/ckac/ so on and so forth because he is french canadian. He has nowhere near the amount of talent as these forms of media suggest. And people like you, believe this because it is force fed to you, day in and day out, when in fact it is simply not true. Thats the Price/Desjardins comparison i wanted to make.

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11-26-2010, 01:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
The irony here is that you make yourself out to be one of those people that's brainwashed by the likes of RDS etc. I'm not saying a French player can't be hyped but what does Price have to do with any of this? Are you a pro-Lats Price-hater who likes a player more and thinks they're better because they're French? I mean come on, you basically are saying it's alright to think one player is going to be better than another cause of the language they speak then if you're saying it isn't okay for people to poke fun at how RDS always overhypes French players.
Where did I say that? Seriously?

Some people obviously defended Price more than Halak because he's a good Canadian boy. Don Cherry is constantly defending cheap shot artists because they are good Canadian boys.

I'm not saying that RDS is right to have a favourable opinion of French players. I'm just pointing out that EVERYBODY has their prejudice, nobody is a perfectly rational being that can judge talent based on talent alone. Especially not posters on these boards who overreact whenever somebody says "Alex Picard is good".

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11-26-2010, 01:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
Sorry wrong choice of words on my part. You cannot compare the hype people have on Price and the hype the french media has on Desjardins. Price is a first rounder, IS playing in the NHl and has been for 3-4 years now and has performed really well thus far and he has way more talent(obviously). Desjardins is only hyped by rds/ckac/ so on and so forth because he is french canadian. He has nowhere near the amount of talent as these forms of media suggest. And people like you, believe this because it is force fed to you, day in and day out, when in fact it is simply not true. Thats the Price/Desjardins comparison i wanted to make.
What is up with everybody telling me that I'm an idiot who eats anything that's fed to him?!?

Where did I say that I beleived that Desjardins was any good??

I just said that everybody has their opinion and their prejudice, that everybody overhypes prospects.

I don't give a **** about Cedrick Desjardins. I just hate people going on here like they are better than everybody else because they are not French inbreds.

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:26 PM
  #63
saints96
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Where did I say that? Seriously?

Some people obviously defended Price more than Halak because he's a good Canadian boy. Don Cherry is constantly defending cheap shot artists because they are good Canadian boys.

I'm not saying that RDS is right to have a favourable opinion of French players. I'm just pointing out that EVERYBODY has their prejudice, nobody is a perfectly rational being that can judge talent based on talent alone. Especially not posters on these boards who overreact whenever somebody says "Alex Picard is good".
he is a good. A solid 5-6th defenseman. But he is not overhyped, Desjardins is. Christ when he was traded rds and they're legion made it seem like we traded Patty Roy.

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11-26-2010, 01:29 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
disgracefull because two undrafted, close to nil NHL games, are being called over hyped? i can go on and defend Corey Locke too, whoopdewoop.
Corey Locke was drafted.

Your post is disgraceful because after reading it, one cannot have but less respect for you, as a person. Why would you attack two players that have performed well for the Bulldogs and have done nothing to warrant your prejudiced comment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
funniest prospects in years: Desharnais and Desjardins; undrafted but expected to become valuable NHL players for some reason
"funniest prospects in years"

What does the word funniest have to do with prospects? Did you lack the right word to describe them?

"Desharnais and Desjardins"

What does Desharnais have to do with this thread?

"undrafted but expected to become valuable NHL players for some reason"

What's your point? That undrafted players cannot become valuable NHL players? If that's your argument, it's thin, paper thin.

""

Are you laughing at your immaturity?

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:31 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by MrExpos View Post
Pierre Dagenais : 54 GP, 9 G, 11 A

Best goal scorer in KHL in 09-10 : Marcel Hossa (!) with 35 goals.

Yeah, one of the top goal scorers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Pierre Dagenais wasn't a top scorer in the KHL. He had 14 goals and 9 goals in two seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
9 goals = one of the top goal scorers in the league?
Obviously, I meant the year before then. I couldn't remember if he spent one or two years there.

The year before he lead his team in GPG (goals per game) with 14 in 40. So as far as I'm concerned, my point stands.

Thanks.

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Also a league where Pierre Dagenais was one of the top goal scorers. Yes, I know Dagenais isn't there this year but he was a goal scorer there last year.
9 goals = one of the top goal scorers in the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post

And wow, Ramo had a good stretch of games. That looks good, sure. But with so few games, he could easily fall easily.

Maybe he's just a better goalie overseas. Not including this years stats (as they haven't been updated on TSN);

Ramo;
NHL - .895, 3.35, 48 GP
AHL - .897, 3.38, 77 GP
KHL - .913, 2.11, 44 GP

Yup, he sure looks great in North America!

For comparison, Desjardins;
AHL - .917, 2.34, 92 GP
ECHL - .923, 2.33, 67 GP
Desjardins hasn't been the starter for a full year in the AHL... the guy played on a very good Hamilton team last year and was on a championship team in the ECHL so obviously his stats will look good.

Tampa Bay's defense was an absolute joke while Ramo was up in the NHL so obviously his stats aren't going to look good... also the guy was only 21/22 when he was playing up in the NHL. Ramo is 2 years younger and already has close to 50 games in the NHL, good chance Desjardins won't even play 50 games in the NHL in his career.

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:38 PM
  #67
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I only wish we had kept Ced for Hamilton but like someone posted above, why would Ramo come over here to back Carey up for a few games a season.
Because he wants to be an NHL goalie not a KHL one. I'm sure if they bring him over he'll play more than Auld has so far.

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11-26-2010, 01:41 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Desjardins hasn't been the starter for a full year in the AHL... the guy played on a very good Hamilton team last year and was on a championship team in the ECHL so obviously his stats will look good.

Tampa Bay's defense was an absolute joke while Ramo was up in the NHL so obviously his stats aren't going to look good... also the guy was only 21/22 when he was playing up in the NHL. Ramo is 2 years younger and already has close to 50 games in the NHL, good chance Desjardins won't even play 50 games in the NHL in his career.
More like Tampa's goaltending was a joke. I'm sure their defense wasn't the best, but the list of goaltenders was almost laughable. Smith came in and turned the tables until his concussion but that's as good as it got.

Desjardins could have been a good, solid, cheap backup for us. Hell, with the amount of games Alex Auld has played Desjardins could have done the same. Not saying Auld isn't the better signing, but next year Desjardins would have been better for the $500K he would have cost.

If Ramo ever comes back over its because we offer him ridiculous money. That's it. He's going to get upwards of $1.5M minimum, untaxed, in the KHL. Even if he gets $1M untaxed, it's better than coming to North America, playing 15 games, and making about $700,000. And if Ramo does good, which I'd assume would be the only reason we want him here, he's going to be making upwards of $3M in the KHL. Yeah, I'm sure he's going to want to come over for a severe cut in pay, less games, less fame, and a lot further from home than he is now. Even if he wants to play in the NHL, he's not stupid. No one is going to to trade the possibility of $3M for $700K (after taxes) and no playing time.

And I'm sure Desjardins talent had nothing to do with being on winning teams after every level, with the exception of the AHL where his team still did pretty good. Nah it's all the team when Desjardins plays. I get it.

For our situation? Desjardins > Ramo.
Overall goalie comparison between the two? I'm still undecided, but with the above fact, I'm ready to go with Desjardins > Ramo again.

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11-26-2010, 01:42 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Where did I say that? Seriously?

Some people obviously defended Price more than Halak because he's a good Canadian boy. Don Cherry is constantly defending cheap shot artists because they are good Canadian boys.

I'm not saying that RDS is right to have a favourable opinion of French players. I'm just pointing out that EVERYBODY has their prejudice, nobody is a perfectly rational being that can judge talent based on talent alone. Especially not posters on these boards who overreact whenever somebody says "Alex Picard is good".
Then if that's the case I see your point and will just leave it at that. I'll even raise you an agreement on the Picard comment Just to me your original post came off sounding a bit... homer to say the least. I don't really care if a player is French or English if I think they play well or I like something about their game I may over-value/project them, that isn't to say I'm doing it because I favor them for where they live/etc but more-so because possibly there's something about their game I specifically like.

People need to stop basing their judgment of players on stuff like where a player is from, the color of his skin or the language that he speaks. I now know that this is in part what you're trying to say but at the same time you're saying there's a double standard here. While I agree somewhat I don't totally agree. Look how many people bash the Price "fanboys" just because they like Price. Same can be said for the number of people who rag on a Picard in a pro-Picard thread. Many Pro-Price threads were locked/deleted and/or ruined by people bashing Price and his fans.

So while I agree that sometimes the double standard is there on HF there's idiots on every side of the equation you can imagine and plenty to go around. To be honest it isn't a question of French vs English I'd be more-so willing to argue it's a question of smart people vs stupid people.

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11-26-2010, 01:42 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
9 goals = one of the top goal scorers in the league?



Desjardins hasn't been the starter for a full year in the AHL... the guy played on a very good Hamilton team last year and was on a championship team in the ECHL so obviously his stats will look good.Tampa Bay's defense was an absolute joke while Ramo was up in the NHL so obviously his stats aren't going to look good... also the guy was only 21/22 when he was playing up in the NHL. Ramo is 2 years younger and already has close to 50 games in the NHL, good chance Desjardins won't even play 50 games in the NHL in his career.
people who only look at stats wouldnt understand a hockey concept such as this. And im not implying that you dont natey

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11-26-2010, 01:45 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Obviously, I meant the year before then. I couldn't remember if he spent one or two years there.

The year before he lead his team in GPG (goals per game) with 14 in 40. So as far as I'm concerned, my point stands.
No... no he didn't.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...050362009.html

Kvasha had a better GPG with 18 in 52.

Just admit you were wrong in trying to defend the AHL over the KHL and leave it be.

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11-26-2010, 01:46 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
If Ramo ever comes back over its because we offer him ridiculous money. That's it. He's going to get upwards of $1.5M minimum, untaxed, in the KHL. Even if he gets $1M untaxed, it's better than coming to North America, playing 15 games, and making about $700,000. And if Ramo does good, which I'd assume would be the only reason we want him here, he's going to be making upwards of $3M in the KHL. Yeah, I'm sure he's going to want to come over for a severe cut in pay, less games, less fame, and a lot further from home than he is now. Even if he wants to play in the NHL, he's not stupid. No one is going to to trade the possibility of $3M for $700K (after taxes) and no playing time.
Ramo will have to pay taxes, the rate is low but it's not untaxed.

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11-26-2010, 01:47 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
No... no he didn't.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...050362009.html

Kvasha had a better GPG with 18 in 52.

Just admit you were wrong in trying to defend the AHL over the KHL and leave it be.
Umm, do the math.

Dagenais. 0.35 GPG.
Kvasha. 0.346 GPG.

Can't wait for the defending on this.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Ramo will have to pay taxes, the rate is low but it's not untaxed.
I didn't know that. I just remember all the discussions saying it was untaxed and since I don't know Russian tax fees, I just assumed. Thanks you!

Isn't Montreal something ridiculous like 22%? I think I remember reading that somewhere. Ouch.

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11-26-2010, 01:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How's Robert Mayer doing this year? As far as the Dogs are concerned, a Desjardins-Sanford tandem would be better. Also Desjardins was showing some signs of improvement as the years pass by. We can say that he lost his spot in the playoffs last year....still ended up with 1 more game played than Sanford who ends up being 6 years older than Desjardins. But it all goes back to if we will ever see Ramo. And it's also about Mayer being a true question mark. The depth, AS OF NOW, would be better served with Desjardins. We will see about the future.

But I would also wait before serving us some stats. I do remember not so long ago how Halak was finally a terrible goalie.....until the last 2 games when strangely we don't hear it anymore. Yes, Cédric doesn't have the start he should have. Ramo is doing well. So far, so good. But it doesn't mean a whole lot as far as what the future holds.

Potentially? A great deal for us.
Mayer has struggled, he has shown some quick feet but has been prone to letting in one or more softies a game.

As for last year, Desjardins got more starts because Sanford had a couple injuries, missed time for an illness and was given leave when his son was born. Desjardins was shaky in the playoffs, so when Sanford returned from injury, he took the starters job back. Imo Sanford was the best goalie in the AHL last year and likely again this year.

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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I didn't know that. I just remember all the discussions saying it was untaxed and since I don't know Russian tax fees, I just assumed. Thanks you! .
The tax rate is 13%

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11-26-2010, 01:52 PM
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As for the debate at hand, Desjardins and Desharnais are good AHL players and will both get a shot at the NHL.

There's nothing wrong with people wanting to see them get a shot, even if their bias is toward French speaking players. RDS knows they have to support their viewer base and talking up a French speaking player for a role on the Canadiens does that.

Yes, it was ridiculous that people were acting as if Desjardins had a shot at fighting Price for a spot on the team. Especially since it was clear that with Price now the number one, the team would go with a veteran back-up, like they should have back in 2008 (when Halak should have went to Atlanta in the Hossa trade).

But that doesn't mean Desjardins is a bad player, or that Ramo is either. Goalies are now a dime a dozen in pro hockey. It honestly doesn't matter if Ramo is in the KHL either. With Bobrovsky looking at being a Calder candidate, grabbing high performance goalies in the KHL just got more lucrative. Ramo's trade value is going up if he never specifically goes to Montreal for a number one spot. Desjardins doesn't have that value.

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