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Old
11-26-2010, 01:52 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
What is up with everybody telling me that I'm an idiot who eats anything that's fed to him?!?

Where did I say that I beleived that Desjardins was any good??

I just said that everybody has their opinion and their prejudice, that everybody overhypes prospects.

I don't give a **** about Cedrick Desjardins. I just hate people going on here like they are better than everybody else because they are not French inbreds.
Just want to start by apologizing for doing that but if you re-read your first post it does make you out to be like that. After reading your response I realize it was just a subject you're very opinionated about and that you actually had some valid points. But upon reading the first post there you do have to admit it does come off sounding like one of these pro-RDS people who eat up everything RDS says.

I was disappointed we traded Desjardins too so don't get me wrong, but I think the point the other posters are trying to make is if you look at Price he has the pedigree and NHL stats/games to back up the fact that he's hyped. Desjardins though he had some good seasons in the AHL has done nothing to justify the hyping RDS gives him. If his name was say Bruce Kostitspoulos do you really believe RDS would have hyped him the same, would have thought he was as good as they said he was?

Don't get me wrong Cedric appeared to be playing very well that isn't what is in question here. What I mean though is that he wouldn't have gotten the hyping and attention he got if he wasn't a Francophone player. I'm not saying it's unfair for them to give more attention to Francophone players, they're a french television network it only makes sense. It doesn't mean they have to over-hype them and over-value them just because they're French though. They could be honest about the situation like they are with most other players.

I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and say English sports media doesn't sometimes do the same thing with "good o'l Canadian boys" but I don't think it's right from either side of the table really. Difference is and the point I think a lot of posters are trying to make though is that the players hyped up mainly by the Anglo fans on here are: Subban, Price, Plekanec, people who have proved something at the NHL level or people who have practically never faulted at any stages of recent development (Subban). Desjardin is no Price, Halak, Plekanec, guys who proved themselves at the NHL level. I'm not saying Desjardins won't bounce back or that he'll never be an NHL goalie either, just calling it how I see it. I've seen the TSN guys hype up a lot of players that were busts too, never said it was right for either side to overhype/play up home town favorites over other players. (Not that I disagree about how some posters are dumb and will say "HAHA CEDRIC IS **** SEE" as they hype up other busts who are Anglo etc)

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
More like Tampa's goaltending was a joke. I'm sure their defense wasn't the best, but the list of goaltenders was almost laughable. Smith came in and turned the tables until his concussion but that's as good as it got.

Desjardins could have been a good, solid, cheap backup for us. Hell, with the amount of games Alex Auld has played Desjardins could have done the same. Not saying Auld isn't the better signing, but next year Desjardins would have been better for the $500K he would have cost.

If Ramo ever comes back over its because we offer him ridiculous money. That's it. He's going to get upwards of $1.5M minimum, untaxed, in the KHL. Even if he gets $1M untaxed, it's better than coming to North America, playing 15 games, and making about $700,000. And if Ramo does good, which I'd assume would be the only reason we want him here, he's going to be making upwards of $3M in the KHL. Yeah, I'm sure he's going to want to come over for a severe cut in pay, less games, less fame, and a lot further from home than he is now. Even if he wants to play in the NHL, he's not stupid. No one is going to to trade the possibility of $3M for $700K (after taxes) and no playing time.

And I'm sure Desjardins talent had nothing to do with being on winning teams after every level, with the exception of the AHL where his team still did pretty good. Nah it's all the team when Desjardins plays. I get it.

For our situation? Desjardins > Ramo.
Overall goalie comparison between the two? I'm still undecided, but with the above fact, I'm ready to go with Desjardins > Ramo again.
Desjardins was one of the reasons the Bulldogs lost in the playoffs last year, he struggled when he had to fill in for Sanford once he got hurt... the guy is 25 and hasn't even been a starter in the AHL for a full year yet you somehow thing he's ready to be an NHL backup?

Auld has intangibles that make him a very good back-up for Price, he's a good teammate who knows his role and won't complain and he's been a back-up goalie for a while now so he's comfortable coming in for a game after missing a month. If we had Price playing the same way this year and Desjardins came in and had 1 good game like Auld did the media would be cursing Martin for not playing the french speaking goalie more.

I actually agree with you now it must'vee been Tampa Bay's goaltending that killed them and not their D:

Mezjaros - Eminger
Krajicek - Murphy
Malik - Ranger

Ramo had an elite defense in front of him, clearly was all his fault and the other goalies in Tampa Bay.

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Old
11-26-2010, 01:55 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
The tax rate is 13%
That's a little more normal. I thought I remember reading somewhere here that was in the 20's.

Actually, I found an article on habsworld, where I may have read it.

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If one were to look at the main reason behind the Canadiens inability to sign marquee free agents, it would definitely revolve around the tax situation in the province of Quebec. There is nowhere else where the Canadiens suffer such a profound competitive disadvantage. When a player chooses to play for the Canadiens, he also chooses to have the highest amount of taxes subtracted from his pay. With a combined 48% tax rate (federal and provincial), Montreal is the city with the highest taxes in the entire NHL.

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11-26-2010, 02:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
I actually agree with you now it must'vee been Tampa Bay's goaltending that killed them and not their D:

Mezjaros - Eminger
Krajicek - Murphy
Malik - Ranger

Ramo had an elite defense in front of him, clearly was all his fault and the other goalies in Tampa Bay.
I'm going to assume that's sarcams

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:04 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Where did I say that? Seriously?

Some people obviously defended Price more than Halak because he's a good Canadian boy. Don Cherry is constantly defending cheap shot artists because they are good Canadian boys.

I'm not saying that RDS is right to have a favourable opinion of French players. I'm just pointing out that EVERYBODY has their prejudice, nobody is a perfectly rational being that can judge talent based on talent alone. Especially not posters on these boards who overreact whenever somebody says "Alex Picard is good".
You know this board. You should know that there's a lot of crap being written here. A lot of bias and ignorant posts/posters.
RDS is a news station, not a poster on HF. Sure, you can expect a little bias as it is the local station and the love for the Habs is simply insane in this city. But when speaking of a prospect, RDS usually are completely clueless. Ever watched their draft show???..It's pathetic, they shouldn't even do one.
Also, they allow articles like Bertrand Raymond's, claiming there's some type of conspiracy with Gauthier simply not liking Quebecois which is the reason why he lives in Vermont!....
When you let such crap be published on your site, then it's not surprising to see other people react the way they are.

RDS is feeding this French vs English crap debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
More like Tampa's goaltending was a joke. I'm sure their defense wasn't the best, but the list of goaltenders was almost laughable. Smith came in and turned the tables until his concussion but that's as good as it got.

Desjardins could have been a good, solid, cheap backup for us. Hell, with the amount of games Alex Auld has played Desjardins could have done the same. Not saying Auld isn't the better signing, but next year Desjardins would have been better for the $500K he would have cost.

If Ramo ever comes back over its because we offer him ridiculous money. That's it. He's going to get upwards of $1.5M minimum, untaxed, in the KHL. Even if he gets $1M untaxed, it's better than coming to North America, playing 15 games, and making about $700,000. And if Ramo does good, which I'd assume would be the only reason we want him here, he's going to be making upwards of $3M in the KHL. Yeah, I'm sure he's going to want to come over for a severe cut in pay, less games, less fame, and a lot further from home than he is now. Even if he wants to play in the NHL, he's not stupid. No one is going to to trade the possibility of $3M for $700K (after taxes) and no playing time.

And I'm sure Desjardins talent had nothing to do with being on winning teams after every level, with the exception of the AHL where his team still did pretty good. Nah it's all the team when Desjardins plays. I get it.

For our situation? Desjardins > Ramo.
Overall goalie comparison between the two? I'm still undecided, but with the above fact, I'm ready to go with Desjardins > Ramo again.
Ramo played on teams that ended last and before last. I don't care how poor the goalkeeping was, if those teams weren't so bad they wouldn't have finished so low in the standings. Not to mention, it was a complete zoo in TB. Even when Smith got injured, he had a losing record.

Ramo...or Desjardins...seriously, it's a toss up. Flip a coin.
This year, Ramo is playing well in KHL, Good. Cedrik is struggling a bit in the AHL, not good for him. What does this mean for their respective future??..Who knows..
Personally, I don't think either one will have much of a NHL career. If they do, they will be late bloomers. I wouldn't bet on that though.

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:07 PM
  #81
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People are homers.

And honestly who care about Desjardins or Ramo, that was a minor trade I dont understand what's the need to talk about that today.

We don't need any of these guys

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11-26-2010, 02:14 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Desjardins was one of the reasons the Bulldogs lost in the playoffs last year, he struggled when he had to fill in for Sanford once he got hurt... the guy is 25 and hasn't even been a starter in the AHL for a full year yet you somehow thing he's ready to be an NHL backup?

Auld has intangibles that make him a very good back-up for Price, he's a good teammate who knows his role and won't complain and he's been a back-up goalie for a while now so he's comfortable coming in for a game after missing a month. If we had Price playing the same way this year and Desjardins came in and had 1 good game like Auld did the media would be cursing Martin for not playing the french speaking goalie more.

I actually agree with you now it must'vee been Tampa Bay's goaltending that killed them and not their D:

Mezjaros - Eminger
Krajicek - Murphy
Malik - Ranger

Ramo had an elite defense in front of him, clearly was all his fault and the other goalies in Tampa Bay.
Yeah, I'm sure you have to have a lot of talent to be doing what Auld is right now.

I never said anywhere that Desjardins is better than Ramo. I do, however, think he's better for our situation. If Price is going to play the majority of the games then a cheap backup like Desjardins next year ($500K) would help. To get a guy like Ramo over here, I'm almost positive we'd have to off no less than $1.5M-$2M which just isn't feasible for a backup goalie.

And sure, you can bash the defense. I never said they were good so don't try to put words in my mouth there. I simply stated that that their goaltending was horrendous too.

Hornqvist? Seriously? Ramo looked like crap in the games I watched (which I admit, probably wasn't many). Marc Denis?

Smith started to turn the tables when he came aboard.

In Ramo's second season, (which is the one you've taken the defense from), Mike Smith posted; 2.62 GAA, .916 SV%.

In Ramo's rookie year, he had a better defense with Kuba & Boyle also in the mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ramo played on teams that ended last and before last. I don't care how poor the goalkeeping was, if those teams weren't so bad they wouldn't have finished so low in the standings. Not to mention, it was a complete zoo in TB. Even when Smith got injured, he had a losing record.

Ramo...or Desjardins...seriously, it's a toss up. Flip a coin.
This year, Ramo is playing well in KHL, Good. Cedrik is struggling a bit in the AHL, not good for him. What does this mean for their respective future??..Who knows..
Personally, I don't think either one will have much of a NHL career. If they do, they will be late bloomers. I wouldn't bet on that though.
Dude, I agree. I know the Tampa teams weren't good. I'm not even saying Ramo is bad goalie because obviously he had potential.

I do however, think Desjardins was a better fit for this team. Salary wise. It'd have been nice to a goalie making $500K to backup Price. $500K is quite a bit of $$$ when it comes to the Trade Deadline (even though we almost never do anything, lol).

And like I said, I don't see Ramo coming back unless we off him a high amount of money.

So at the end of the day, I just felt that Desjardins would have fit our situation a lot better than Ramo. If Price falls apart, then we'd obviously be having a different conversation. And both goalies would be a huge risk. However, I don't see that happening now so Desjardins wins for me.

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:18 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you have to have a lot of talent to be doing what Auld is right now.

I never said anywhere that Desjardins is better than Ramo. I do, however, think he's better for our situation. If Price is going to play the majority of the games then a cheap backup like Desjardins next year ($500K) would help. To get a guy like Ramo over here, I'm almost positive we'd have to off no less than $1.5M-$2M which just isn't feasible for a backup goalie.

And sure, you can bash the defense. I never said they were good so don't try to put words in my mouth there. I simply stated that that their goaltending was horrendous too.

Hornqvist? Seriously? Ramo looked like crap. Marc Denis?

Smith started to turn the tables when he came aboard.

In Ramo's second season, (which is the one you've taken the defense from), Mike Smith posted; 2.62 GAA, .916 SV%.

In Ramo's rookie year, he had a better defense with Kuba & Boyle also in the mix.
Desjardins is not an NHL calibre goalie so any idea that has him as our #2 is a bad one. Right now he is TB's #4 goalie and their goaltending is less than envious.

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you have to have a lot of talent to be doing what Auld is right now.

I never said anywhere that Desjardins is better than Ramo. I do, however, think he's better for our situation. If Price is going to play the majority of the games then a cheap backup like Desjardins next year ($500K) would help. To get a guy like Ramo over here, I'm almost positive we'd have to off no less than $1.5M-$2M which just isn't feasible for a backup goalie.
I think the key is they wanted a veteran who was used to not playing, and then playing well when asked. They also wanted a guy who would be a veteran mentor to Price, not someone who has any illusions about stealing his job.

Desjardins, if he were in Montreal, would be working his ass off to take that job from him. He would have little to no helpful advice for Price. He would also be completely unused to sitting for long stretches.

Given what Biron got in NY though, I do think we overpaid a bit for Auld. Especially in this soft goalie market. But such is life and it's working, so not much to complain about here.

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Desjardins is not an NHL calibre goalie so any idea that has him as our #2 is a bad one. Right now he is TB's #4 goalie and their goaltending is less than envious.
Anyone can be an NHL caliber goalie with the way Price is playing.

The thing is, I don't think Price is playing THAT much better than last year. He was good last year except that he'd always let in the heartbreaking goal (tying goal, go ahead goal, etc). This year, he's shut those right out and look whats happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
I think the key is they wanted a veteran who was used to not playing, and then playing well when asked. They also wanted a guy who would be a veteran mentor to Price, not someone who has any illusions about stealing his job.

Desjardins, if he were in Montreal, would be working his ass off to take that job from him. He would have little to no helpful advice for Price. He would also be completely unused to sitting for long stretches.

Given what Biron got in NY though, I do think we overpaid a bit for Auld. Especially in this soft goalie market. But such is life and it's working, so not much to complain about here.
I know they wanted a veteran. Thats why when I was talking about it, I was stating next year. I wanted the veteran back-up after Halak was dealt.

I would have had no problem with a tandem of Desjardins + Sanford in the AHL again. Mayer probably couldn't have been hurt with another ECHL season.

With the way Price is playing now and is the undipusted #1, maybe a young kid coming and working his ass off next year would have been a good thing. Maybe not though, it's hard to tell.

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:22 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Anyone can be an NHL caliber goalie with the way Price is playing.
...and if Price gets hurt?

Auld has started and done a decent job in the NHL before.

If Price misses two weeks, it's not ideal, but I am confident the team could do OK for a short stretch with Auld.

If we really had kept Desjardins and not signed Auld... It would be Sanford backing up Price. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why we didn't just do that. But whatever.

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11-26-2010, 02:26 PM
  #87
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The AHL features players like Jaromir Jagr, Alexander Radulov and Alexei Morozov. Gotcha.
Who? The AHL has Desharnais. If you read RDS.ca, you would know that he is the best hockey player right now. Including the NHL.

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11-26-2010, 02:27 PM
  #88
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...and if Price gets hurt?

Auld has started and done a decent job in the NHL before.

If Price misses two weeks, it's not ideal, but I am confident the team could do OK for a short stretch with Auld.

If we really had kept Desjardins and not signed Auld... It would be Sanford backing up Price. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why we didn't just do that. But whatever.
I never said this season, I said next year. We could of monitored Desjardins for another year for before doing anything.

If Desjardins did asked to be traded then yeah, of course, it was the right move.

We obviously also have Sanford in the AHL who has done an adequate job in the NHL when covering for injuries like Luongo.

I'm not sure what the goaltending situation is like overseas, but I'm sure theres some decent guy over there too.

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11-26-2010, 02:31 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Also a league where Pierre Dagenais was one of the top goal scorers. Yes, I know Dagenais isn't there this year but he was a goal scorer there last year.

And wow, Ramo had a good stretch of games. That looks good, sure. But with so few games, he could easily fall easily.

Maybe he's just a better goalie overseas. Not including this years stats (as they haven't been updated on TSN);

Ramo;
NHL - .895, 3.35, 48 GP
AHL - .897, 3.38, 77 GP
KHL - .913, 2.11, 44 GP

Yup, he sure looks great in North America!
To be fair, the Norfolk Admirals were one of the worst teams in the league and the Springfield Falcons were the 2nd worst team in the league when he played for them.

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11-26-2010, 02:40 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Dude, I agree. I know the Tampa teams weren't good. I'm not even saying Ramo is bad goalie because obviously he had potential.

I do however, think Desjardins was a better fit for this team. Salary wise. It'd have been nice to a goalie making $500K to backup Price. $500K is quite a bit of $$$ when it comes to the Trade Deadline (even though we almost never do anything, lol).

And like I said, I don't see Ramo coming back unless we off him a high amount of money.

So at the end of the day, I just felt that Desjardins would have fit our situation a lot better than Ramo. If Price falls apart, then we'd obviously be having a different conversation. And both goalies would be a huge risk. However, I don't see that happening now so Desjardins wins for me.
I think management had the obvious idea of having a veteran back up Price, and rightfully so. I think that's part of the reason why they did move Desjardins, also because they saw much better keepers in Delmas and Mayer.
At the end of the day, we can't keep every single player. There's no way Desjardins was ready to back up Price this year, so really, moving him became a necessity.
In return, we get a player that doesn't take a roster spot over our youngsters in the AHL, can develop on his own in the KHL and if he becomes promising, we will have the option of bringing him over.

This deal made a lot of sense really. I understand that Desjardins could be a back up and we'd save 500K (I'm seriously not concerned about that money saved come deadline), but essentially, that's not what he wants and I don't see how his presence would help Price, in any way. Whereas having a veteran like Auld, that knows his role and embraces it, certainly won't serve as any type of distraction and given his experience, will come as a help.

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11-26-2010, 03:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I never said this season, I said next year. We could of monitored Desjardins for another year for before doing anything.

If Desjardins did asked to be traded then yeah, of course, it was the right move.

We obviously also have Sanford in the AHL who has done an adequate job in the NHL when covering for injuries like Luongo.

I'm not sure what the goaltending situation is like overseas, but I'm sure theres some decent guy over there too.
Misunderstood, my bad.

Thought you meant this season.

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11-26-2010, 04:40 PM
  #92
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In the end, some people on this board have the hardest of time having as their favorite team, a team located in Montreal. The language debate will ALWAYS be there. Especially in a time when even if it was not the goal, an eradication of tons of french speaking players "seemed" to have taken place. In this market, if you "attack" (note the "" 'cause it's not as hard as it sounds to be...) the language, be sure to have a great and almost perfect team.

All those moves were before the season started. It was done especially in a mood that nobody knew how Price would react and that the success of that team was directly linked to how he would be playing. It was then easier to attack the organization for their lack of french language speaking players. Now, we're winning.....you don't hear a whole lot of mentions about the language. Everybody true to themselves, will still believe it.....but talking about it would be dumb. Yet.....I also believe we hear and talk about this team being bigger.....maybe just as much as being more "french". And I'm pretty sure that big doesn't necessarily means french either...

In the end, the Desjardins "saga" came at the end of a pretty "bad" summer for everybody would have liked to see more locals. Add the "Halak" story and everything took some kind of proportion. That's Montreal for you. It is about time people start to live with this. If not, well you might just do what you hate to see other people doing....complain and whine.....And another thing....it's about time people stop with "he's good because he's french" stupidity.....getting pretty old and stupid. Some french speaking players also happen to be pretty good hockey players.

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11-26-2010, 05:12 PM
  #93
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All I can say is I was right about Sébastien Bisaillon.

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11-26-2010, 05:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Just want to start by apologizing for doing that but if you re-read your first post it does make you out to be like that. After reading your response I realize it was just a subject you're very opinionated about and that you actually had some valid points. But upon reading the first post there you do have to admit it does come off sounding like one of these pro-RDS people who eat up everything RDS says.

I was disappointed we traded Desjardins too so don't get me wrong, but I think the point the other posters are trying to make is if you look at Price he has the pedigree and NHL stats/games to back up the fact that he's hyped. Desjardins though he had some good seasons in the AHL has done nothing to justify the hyping RDS gives him. If his name was say Bruce Kostitspoulos do you really believe RDS would have hyped him the same, would have thought he was as good as they said he was?

Don't get me wrong Cedric appeared to be playing very well that isn't what is in question here. What I mean though is that he wouldn't have gotten the hyping and attention he got if he wasn't a Francophone player. I'm not saying it's unfair for them to give more attention to Francophone players, they're a french television network it only makes sense. It doesn't mean they have to over-hype them and over-value them just because they're French though. They could be honest about the situation like they are with most other players.

I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and say English sports media doesn't sometimes do the same thing with "good o'l Canadian boys" but I don't think it's right from either side of the table really. Difference is and the point I think a lot of posters are trying to make though is that the players hyped up mainly by the Anglo fans on here are: Subban, Price, Plekanec, people who have proved something at the NHL level or people who have practically never faulted at any stages of recent development (Subban). Desjardin is no Price, Halak, Plekanec, guys who proved themselves at the NHL level. I'm not saying Desjardins won't bounce back or that he'll never be an NHL goalie either, just calling it how I see it. I've seen the TSN guys hype up a lot of players that were busts too, never said it was right for either side to overhype/play up home town favorites over other players. (Not that I disagree about how some posters are dumb and will say "HAHA CEDRIC IS **** SEE" as they hype up other busts who are Anglo etc)
To be fair, a name like "Bruce Kostitspoulos" would hype itself.

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Old
11-27-2010, 07:40 AM
  #95
Prudentius
 
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post


The tax rate is 13%
That is the global tax when you pay for stuff. The income tax is much, much higher then that. For hockey players, it's at least triple that.

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11-27-2010, 08:10 AM
  #96
macavoy
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
i honestly dont know what the point of your post is. But if you're trying to use that reply to suggest that im insecure about Price or something of that manner, a) its not funny and b) you could not be more wrong. And if you're not suggsting that, well then your post went completley over my head.

Here was the point of my FYP. You totally mistook what the poster you quoted was saying out of context because of your love of Price and the need to defend him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
What the ****?!

Have you even read my post?!

Where do I compare Desjardins with Price?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
What is up with everybody telling me that I'm an idiot who eats anything that's fed to him?!?

Where did I say that I beleived that Desjardins was any good??
If you took the time to read what he wrote instead of jumping in to give your Price love, you would have gotten the point of the person's post, instead you just went on your own tangent, which I was pointing out, which the poster obviously flew off the handle about.

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Old
11-27-2010, 10:29 AM
  #97
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prudentius View Post
That is the global tax when you pay for stuff. The income tax is much, much higher then that. For hockey players, it's at least triple that.
In '01 Russia went to the flat tax of 13% for individuals, Non-resident Russians are taxed at a Federal Income Tax Rate of 30% but I don't know how hard it is to become a resident.

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11-27-2010, 12:11 PM
  #98
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dunno but rammo makes me think of rambo..

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:38 PM
  #99
jacklours
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You guys have your taxes all messed up. 13% (officialy 12,875%) is sale tax. Which you pay on everything you purchase.

Nhl players probably pay about 50% income tax. So they are left with 50% salary and everytime they spend a buck they give an extra 13% to the governments. Meaning they get taxed over 60%.

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