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Why are worse this year then last year

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Old
11-30-2010, 12:33 AM
  #26
Sidney the Kidney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Well, the question isn't "what's wrong with the roster"... The roster last year was pretty bad too, but it's certainly a valid point-of-view to say that the team is worse due to key injuries.

Again, I think trying to mark a difference between this year and last is splitting hairs. Both squads are/were simply bad. We're talking a few games here and there being the difference, if any, by the end of the year.
Granted, but my interpretation of the post I quoted was he inferred that if it weren't for the injuries, the roster assembled would indeed be much improved over last season's and thus, it would be doing a lot better than it is. If that wasn't the poster's meaning, then I retract my question to him.

Thus, my skepticism-laced question stands. He can't seriously believe that the only reason there has been no improvement -- or in this case, regression -- is due to the injuries the club has sustained. Even without the injuries, the club still wouldn't have seen the kind of improvement in the standings that some seem to expect there to have been due to a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with Streit and Okposo's injuries.

I think you'd agree (and certainly, you said pretty much as much in your second paragraph) that, give or take a couple of wins here and there, overall this year's club just wasn't improved enough during the off-season to see any significant improvement over last year's. So suggesting that injuries are the main (or only) cause for this lack of significant improvement is understating all the other issues.

Edit: Gah. I hate when I'm not clear about what I'm trying to say. Basically, his response to the OP's question of "why are we worse than last year?" was that injuries are the cause, an inference that without those injuries, the Isles would be a much better club. I just think that's completely glossing over the other real issues that also are contributing to why there is no improvement in the team.


Last edited by Sidney the Kidney: 11-30-2010 at 12:46 AM.
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Old
11-30-2010, 02:02 AM
  #27
OlTimeHockey
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The players
The system
The goaltending
The defense
The line combos
The stability
The GM
The coaches
The owner.

But we have a new spa in the lockerroom.....Blue Jackets don't have that, nor do the Flyers. Hoo rah.


We needed better players in key roles and far better coaching of fundamental hockey and no rushing prospects....well, we lack leadership, the kids are overwhelmed and our gameplan was picked apart and exploited for a while now. Wanger either ordered the Bionic bust to start or not.....we just decided to play him into shape over playing our team into the postseason too many nights.

And let's not forget the season really went into the toilet when Howie was caught being frustrated on air like any true Islander fan was at that juncture. No recovering from a pom-pom lacking in the broadcast booth.

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11-30-2010, 02:46 AM
  #28
Bert Marshall days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
The players
The system
The goaltending
The defense
The line combos
The stability
The GM
The coaches
The owner.

But we have a new spa in the lockerroom.....Blue Jackets don't have that, nor do the Flyers. Hoo rah.


We needed better players in key roles and far better coaching of fundamental hockey and no rushing prospects....well, we lack leadership, the kids are overwhelmed and our gameplan was picked apart and exploited for a while now. Wanger either ordered the Bionic bust to start or not.....we just decided to play him into shape over playing our team into the postseason too many nights.

And let's not forget the season really went into the toilet when Howie was caught being frustrated on air like any true Islander fan was at that juncture. No recovering from a pom-pom lacking in the broadcast booth.

FIRE HOWIE!!!!!!!!

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:30 AM
  #29
2LeftSkates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmoon1106 View Post
the way i see it it breaks down into a few basic problems.


#4. Bad Ownership
-Much to be said for Mr. Wang. He has refused to let Snow put any money into the team, keeping us at the cap floor thanks to Yashin.
So he is punishing everyone for his poor judgement, which has been a continuous series of lousy decisions since he got here. The league should force him to really spend to the cap minimum, not give Weight an extra million dollars if he hits 20 goals.
We are worse than last year because all of the other teams actually tried to improve. Our defense was not our most glaring weakness last year, lack of veteran top six talent was. Guess where we are now?
Last place.

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Old
11-30-2010, 04:05 AM
  #30
Bert Marshall days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmoon1106 View Post
the way i see it it breaks down into a few basic problems.

#1. Scoring
-Moulson and Tavares on pace for about 30 goals this year, not bad. the next highest goal scorer is Grabner, who is on pace for about 21 goals. not one other player is on pace for 20 goals, and the likelihood of Grabner getting 20 is questionable. lately, the team hasn't been able to score more than 2 goals in most games. this must change. Lets not forget Kyle being out, who knows how well he would've done this season?

#2. Defense
-With Streit out and injuries from Juricina, Hillen, Macdonald, Mattau, Gervais, that is bad. Wisniewski was playing very well at the start of the season, but he can't do it all. This leaves it up to AHL players to fill in for the job of NHLers, and no one can do any good with that.

#3. Lack of Leadership
-Our captain gets repeatedly scratched. I've heard rumors that he turned the young players against Gordon because he was angry about his playing time. Rumors. No real vets on this team to show the young guys what to do.

#4. Bad Ownership
-Much to be said for Mr. Wang. This summer, many people were fired and not replaced. One of these people includes Ryan Jankowski, the assistant GM. He had helped Garth with his very detailed scouting reports to perform drafts that have been widely respected throughout the hockey world. We now have no assistant GM because Wang wants to save some money and go by central scouting. Understandable, yet foolish IMO. He has refused to let Snow put any money into the team, keeping us at the cap floor thanks to Yashin. All Snow can do is draft young talent, sign cheap players, and do his best to trade with virtually nothing.


if anyone disagrees with me or feels i left something out, i am open minded
FIRE WANG!!!!!!

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Old
11-30-2010, 05:08 AM
  #31
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Injuries...

Lack of depth at forward and defense...

Gervais is currently one of our "top" defenseman. Enough said.

No acquisition of scoring winger to flank Tavares...

TERRIBLE leadership on ice, front office and ownership...

Tavares and Bailey taking a step backwards in development...

Wang forcing DiPietro starts even though he was clearly not ready and not good enough

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Old
11-30-2010, 06:29 AM
  #32
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We all recognize that the reason for the Islanders worsening performance this year is that the building is another year older. You can't expect the players to play well in such a dingy environment. That is also the reason for falling attendance. If we had a shiny new building and lost 14 in a row, we'd still be selling out the joint. It's obvious.

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Old
11-30-2010, 07:27 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsMetsIsles View Post
Why are we so much worse this year then last year. Our defense has improved imo even without Streit. Okposo injured hurts our offense but in a year when I thought we would improve or atleast be the same as last year we are much much worse. What is the biggest reason for such a tremendous decline when all signs say we should be moving forward.
As I mentioned several times in the
Past, Rolosin stolled 20 points last year
This team should have been last last year.
It's not good and won't be for 3 years if
They don't surrond the kids with players

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Old
11-30-2010, 09:27 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by lacunacoil77 View Post
This team is bad because of Dipietro playing so much due to Wang despite having goaltending #'s that would get most backups released if they had those #'s. ALso, Baily is not, and probably never will be as good as Travis Green of all people. Never mind Adam Oates. Tavares? He is mark Parrish with better passing. Thats it. Doesn't bring anything else to the table that Parrish didn't. Every other foward is useless in the top 6 role besides Moulson who will walk as a free agent if not traded in 3 months. Most fowards on the iSLES are the equivilant of 4/th 5th outfielders in baseball. Most will be out of the NHL in a year or 2. The Defense? Do we need to get into that?
Very harsh but MAY be true to some degree.
All of the professional hockey experts who have watch Tavares play throughout his junior career, and now 100 games of NHL still speak of him as a future franchise player, a perennial All-Star. I haven't heard one ever say anything different.
I have had my own doubts about that, but these people have seen him in many situations at all levels and the conclusion is that he was and will never be a Crosby or Ovechkin for many reasons, but he is definately held back by the fact that he is being asked to be a 1st line center as a 20 year old newbie, drawing all the best defensive coverage without any complimentary established NHL quality wings to help take the pressure off him. Excuse? Maybe, but I will go with the professional, and unbiased opinion until it changes.
As for Bailey, I have much greater concerns that you ay be very right. But we will need to wait maybe 2 or 3 more years to see about Bailey to see if he develops, or overcomes the fact that he was rushed by Snow by at least 1 year, possibly 2, being moved around to unfamiliar positions, lack of veteran help on his line, and naturally not possessing the fire to succeed that Tavares has.
Of the two players, he has the longest way to go to even be a 3rd line player in the NHL.

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Old
11-30-2010, 10:57 AM
  #35
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It's all about the injuries my friends, nothing else in my opinion.

Going into the season we had a pretty decent roster made up on paper, but with injuries to two of our best players and a crap ton of the D-men we brought in, this team is probably no better than the JT draft year team.

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Old
11-30-2010, 12:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan17 View Post
It's all about the injuries my friends, nothing else in my opinion.

Going into the season we had a pretty decent roster made up on paper, but with injuries to two of our best players and a crap ton of the D-men we brought in, this team is probably no better than the JT draft year team.
Last year's team was better.

The key was not surrounding the kids with vets. That's it. No more, no less.

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Old
11-30-2010, 12:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner View Post
As I mentioned several times in the
Past, Rolosin stolled 20 points last year
This team should have been last last year.
It's not good and won't be for 3 years if
They don't surrond the kids with players
I don't think JT and KO will be here in 3 years.

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Old
11-30-2010, 01:22 PM
  #38
Islanderfan17
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Originally Posted by Groin Of Bates View Post
Last year's team was better.

The key was not surrounding the kids with vets. That's it. No more, no less.
Thats definitely part of it, but you can't tell me that this team with a healthy Streit, Okposo, and most of the D-core that we picked up wouldn't make a pretty big difference in our record. I think we'd be floating around 500 with that lineup.

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Old
11-30-2010, 02:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Anyone else see any commonalities between our team and the movie Major League?
At this point, I'd take Charlie Sheen and Wesley Snipes on the team if we could spring them from rehab and jail respectively.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:35 PM
  #40
OlTimeHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach View Post
We all recognize that the reason for the Islanders worsening performance this year is that the building is another year older. You can't expect the players to play well in such a dingy environment. That is also the reason for falling attendance. If we had a shiny new building and lost 14 in a row, we'd still be selling out the joint. It's obvious.
Don't forget: better food court/better scoring.

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Old
11-30-2010, 04:04 PM
  #41
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This team was winning games with its power play. Teams adjust at the start of the season. Special teams can be streaky. Young teams are inconsistent. NHL ready depth of our team is very lacking. (Therefore, injuries can become insurmountable quite quickly.)

There's no reason to believe that this team, minus Streit and KO, should be better than last year's team. Add to this an extremely raw crop of forwards, and you're going to get very inconsistent results. This is the type of team that can play well for 10 games and play like **** for 10+ games.

Our defense was never good. Our defense with Streit (and healthy) would have been average. Even at our best, we're not quite the right mix of personnel. We need a guy like Hamonic in his prime. A big/gritty top-4 guy who can get the puck on net (a huge problem of ours) and play physical (another huge problem of ours.)

Our forwards lack a top-6 veteran presence. I wanted us to add two legitimate top-6 forwards. We didn't even add ONE. There were 2nd-tier guys that could have made this team better. We should have gone out of our way to obtain a few capable guys for 2-3 years. Without a couple of additions, we're asking far too much from our young players and soon-to-be prospects.

Subtract injuries, add KO and Streit, and this team is better than last year's team. But by how much? We've been playing with fire, and that isn't Rome you smell burning. Even if the plan was to tank for a couple of years, this still would have been the year to add to the puzzle on offense. Let Bailey/KO suffer a bit for two seasons. Let Tavares suffer for one season. Good idea? No. A risk worth taking? No. Did we, mostly, get away with it? For the first two years, it would seem so. Any conscionable reason to let continue beyond that? None at all.

If this team gets healthy, then they'll win some games. Healthy through the season, and we sniff at the 8th seed. Minus two of our best players, while we enter an inconsistent stretch of offense? Straight to the bottom. I'm sure we'll see a few more stretches of games where we'll score more. We do have some good young players who will shine for smaller stretches; they just don't have much help.

,
Mitch

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Old
11-30-2010, 07:09 PM
  #42
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It's very simple, with Streit and Okposo, I strongly believe we are close to .500 right now and maybe somewhere around the 8th spot in the East... You can call me dillusional but don't forget that with Streit in the line-up all our players around him look much better so many of the players we currently think that they suck wouldn't look that bad with Streit (and a little bit Okposo also) in the roster

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11-30-2010, 08:30 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilio View Post
You can call me dillusional but don't forget that with Streit in the line-up all our players around him look much better so many of the players we currently think that they suck wouldn't look that bad with Streit (and a little bit Okposo also) in the roster
Okay, I won't call you dillusional. But I will call you delusional.

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11-30-2010, 08:40 PM
  #44
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It's the reality, Mark Streit changes the whole team from A to Z...This guy is SSSSOOOOO under-rated it's not even funny...If he's there, we're a completely different team...

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11-30-2010, 08:44 PM
  #45
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It's the reality, Mark Streit changes the whole team from A to Z...This guy is SSSSOOOOO under-rated it's not even funny...If he's there, we're a completely different team...
True, maybe we're 13th instead.

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11-30-2010, 08:55 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilio View Post
It's the reality, Mark Streit changes the whole team from A to Z...This guy is SSSSOOOOO under-rated it's not even funny...If he's there, we're a completely different team...

How is Streit under rated? The entire league knows he's the best player on the Isles and one of the best offensive D-men in the league.

With him in the lineup, yes the Isles are a better team. He will also need a good pairing and forwards too. He can't and won't be able to do it alone.

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Old
11-30-2010, 09:04 PM
  #47
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How is Streit under rated? The entire league knows he's the best player on the Isles and one of the best offensive D-men in the league.

With him in the lineup, yes the Isles are a better team. He will also need a good pairing and forwards too. He can't and won't be able to do it alone.
That's exactly my point: HE CAN DO IT ALL ALONE...That's how good he is...When he's on the ice, the Isles completely change. Here's a little interesting stat from last year to prove my point:

For 118 out of the 222 goals the Isles scored last year, Mark Streit was on the ice
For 93 out of the 264 goals the Isles were scored on last year, Mark Streit was on the ice.

This means that 53.15% of the goals for the Isles, Streit was present
This also means he was only present for 35.61% of the goals scored agains the Isles

And Streit plays on both the PP and PK...

Now tell me if you don't think he makes a difference?

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11-30-2010, 09:06 PM
  #48
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One Word...INJURIES!(anytime you lose your star D-man and upcoming star Winger your going to suffer)

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11-30-2010, 10:14 PM
  #49
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Injuries are a crutch. When you're last place as a professional sports franchise-there is no excuse. None. Boston, NYRangers, Tampa, Colorado, Montreal, have all played through major injuries thus far this year and are in playoff contention.

Streit is an average #1 defensemen. That's not a knock on him, are we a better team with him? Yes. But adding him, plus a forward who's never netted 20 goals, or 55 points, and was last on the team in +/- last year (yes even worse than Witt), isn't going to improve this team from 5-17 to even 11-11 (which is still what? around 11-12th place end of the year).

This team isn't good-injuries or no injuries. Accept it, and move on.


edit: As for those claiming Streit would make this team totally different. Really? He played all year last year, and the year before that. We finished 26th and 30th respectively. The proof is i the pudding.


Last edited by ScaredStreit: 11-30-2010 at 10:19 PM.
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Old
11-30-2010, 10:31 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilio View Post
That's exactly my point: HE CAN DO IT ALL ALONE...That's how good he is...When he's on the ice, the Isles completely change. Here's a little interesting stat from last year to prove my point:

For 118 out of the 222 goals the Isles scored last year, Mark Streit was on the ice
For 93 out of the 264 goals the Isles were scored on last year, Mark Streit was on the ice.

This means that 53.15% of the goals for the Isles, Streit was present
This also means he was only present for 35.61% of the goals scored agains the Isles

And Streit plays on both the PP and PK...

Now tell me if you don't think he makes a difference?

That doesn't answer the question of being under rated. Those stats are nice, but if it doesn't produce points where it counts then its irrelevant.

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