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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VIII

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Old
11-30-2010, 02:55 PM
  #726
Johnny Utah
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Kings missed out on Fleishman...Lombardi is very shrewd...how many forwards are we going to lose out on through UFA and trades...it's getting ridiculous...what was the last trade we made? Halpern and Modin during the deadline? Sheesh.

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11-30-2010, 02:58 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Kingme00 View Post
By uncharacteristic, I'm assuming you mean obstruction/interference type penalties... bascially 'lazy' penalties? I do agree that in the preseason he did, but once the season started, he took 1 tripping minor, 1 HS minor and 1 roughing minor.

If I recall that tripping penalty he took vs Vancover, he was defending a player coming down the boards and the guy chipped it into the LA zone. You could see Doughty wanted to go for the hip check, but hesitated and it got to a point where the player didnt have the puck for a good 2-3 seconds. Any hit now would've been interference , but by the time that decision was made, the guy had already gotten around Doughty so he reached out with his stick.

Now, that was probably too many words for something insignificant, but to me it demonstrates a player making a poor decision based on wanting to throw the big hit versus being out of shape.

Also, I don't see how trying to beat players one-on-one demonstrates a lack of fitness. He's been doing those failed rushes going back to his junior days. Any Guelph fan will tell you, for every spectacular end to end rush he scored on, there were 10 failed attempts.

Lastly, how does someone lacking in fitness log 23-29 minutes per game? It's not like he's looks gassed at the end of the games recently. He's looks sluggish right from the start....
No one expects Doughty to score on every end to end rush. but if he makes every one out of 10, then he will need to play 11 games for one to work, since we have gotten AT BEST, one rush per game from Doughty and only in the dying minutes of a loss. There is either something wrong with him offensively or he is on a shorter leash than last year because he has been a complete NON FACTOR on offense.

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Old
11-30-2010, 02:58 PM
  #728
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Its ok.. DL will pull of a trade for some 40 yr old for a conditional pick..who needs a first liner, when you can load up on cheap 4th liners

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11-30-2010, 03:02 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Kings missed out on Fleishman...Lombardi is very shrewd...how many forwards are we going to lose out on through UFA and trades...it's getting ridiculous...what was the last trade we made? Halpern and Modin during the deadline? Sheesh.
Not that I don't think we need to make a trade, and that Lombardi is afraid to pull the trigger when needed, but did you really think Fleishman was the answer?

That being said, has Lombardi ever made a trade during the season, other than the trade deadline?

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11-30-2010, 03:04 PM
  #730
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How many times have we seen DL start a deal and then have the other team turn to everyone else and say "were gonna deal player X, here is what the Kings are offering can you better it" and have us get beaten out?

I can state for a fact that I know of four times that this has happened and while two of the times involved UFA's the other two didn't and here we are again. I am starting to fall in line with those who say that DL might be one of the most gifted scouts and assessors of NHL potential of all time but he isn't cut out to be a GM.

I guess I am just frustrated but I would love it if Hammond or even DL himself would tell the fans what is actually happening behind the scenes, if he (or they are whomever) would I can tell you two things that would happen, one is that everyone would start questioning more seriously what DL is up to and two the people critical of those who cover the team and handle passing along rumored potential deals would get allot more respect.

We almost lost WM and at the last minute DL ups the offer and we just barely get him and now there is another deal that we just wouldn't meet even though we have the ability to do so without a great cost but we somehow lose out again.

Well I know that I have heard of a couple of other deals that are supposed to be in the works but I haven't any faith that they will get done, not any longer.

There are allot of NHL professionals who are starting to look at us (and DL) and and are saying WTF? Low Ball DL isn't going to get us what we so glaringly and obviously need, its time to pay the piper and put the final pieces in place. It still might take us another season to win a cup but we should at the very least ice the best team possible. You have gathered and kept the assets, now is the time to use them and make this deal happen. Either one, your choice but it is clearly the time.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:04 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Kings are having a tough time, so we are taking jabs/making jokes about the guys.
Just check out LGK:

Drew Doughty is so fat
I saw that thread as well, and it's actually pretty funny. But jokes aside, I think it's pretty weak for people to say his play sucks this year due to his weight or level of fitness.

By that logic, it could be said that Kopitar is a fatty as well. He looks just as sluggish, but yet by all account he worked his ass off in the summer.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:05 PM
  #732
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Lombardi barely ever makes deals...he is the exact opposite of Bryan Murray or Brian Burke, GM's who are always making moves or at least trying.

Fleishman may not be the answer BUT HE IS BETTER THAN King, Richardson, switching Brown to the LW or wtf the Kings are trying to band aid at the first line.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:08 PM
  #733
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He traded Avery and Conroy during the season.

Avery trade fetched us Cliche.

The second round pick acquired in the Conroy trade was packaged with Cammalleri to get Teubert. And we took Dwight King with the fourth rounder.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:09 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
No one expects Doughty to score on every end to end rush. but if he makes every one out of 10, then he will need to play 11 games for one to work, since we have gotten AT BEST, one rush per game from Doughty and only in the dying minutes of a loss. There is either something wrong with him offensively or he is on a shorter leash than last year because he has been a complete NON FACTOR on offense.
No one is saying otherwise. What's in dispute is whether or not that is due to him being out of shape or some other reason.

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11-30-2010, 03:10 PM
  #735
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It was open at the last game.
Gand openings are different than when the rink/store/mall/movie theatre actually opens. Usually when a new store or attraction is opening for the first time, they open to the public a week or two before they have a "Grand Opening" party or event. This is the case with the LA Live Ice Rink, it's open to the public, but the Grand Opening is tomorrow.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:11 PM
  #736
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I may be alone in this but watch how TF does as an Av. He is a natural LW and that is where he will be used. I bet his season ends with him having 25 goals give or take and another 30 assists. That is exactly the type of LW that we could use on our first line. Maybe not the perfect fit but a guy who can skate, has solid speed and is a closer.

And I am having a really hard time with the rumor that the Avs are now going to deal TF to us for one of our D that they covet. In the offseason maybe but after getting the hapless Hunwick to replace Hannannnn
why would they do another deal? Had they not obtained Hunwick then I could dig it but not now.

The clock is ticking....

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:12 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
How many times have we seen DL start a deal and then have the other team turn to everyone else and say "were gonna deal player X, here is what the Kings are offering can you better it" and have us get beaten out?

I can state for a fact that I know of four times that this has happened and while two of the times involved UFA's the other two didn't and here we are again. I am starting to fall in line with those who say that DL might be one of the most gifted scouts and assessors of NHL potential of all time but he isn't cut out to be a GM.

I guess I am just frustrated but I would love it if Hammond or even DL himself would tell the fans what is actually happening behind the scenes, if he (or they are whomever) would I can tell you two things that would happen, one is that everyone would start questioning more seriously what DL is up to and two the people critical of those who cover the team and handle passing along rumored potential deals would get allot more respect.

We almost lost WM and at the last minute DL ups the offer and we just barely get him and now there is another deal that we just wouldn't meet even though we have the ability to do so without a great cost but we somehow lose out again.

Well I know that I have heard of a couple of other deals that are supposed to be in the works but I haven't any faith that they will get done, not any longer.

There are allot of NHL professionals who are starting to look at us (and DL) and and are saying WTF? Low Ball DL isn't going to get us what we so glaringly and obviously need, its time to pay the piper and put the final pieces in place. It still might take us another season to win a cup but we should at the very least ice the best team possible. You have gathered and kept the assets, now is the time to use them and make this deal happen. Either one, your choice but it is clearly the time.
Let's not get carried away. The Capitals, apparently, were looking for a veteran, physical defenseman. Colorado had one to spare. The Kings didn't. Can't sell what you don't have.

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11-30-2010, 03:13 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
How many times have we seen DL start a deal and then have the other team turn to everyone else and say "were gonna deal player X, here is what the Kings are offering can you better it" and have us get beaten out?

.

This is not what happened here. According to Pierre LeBrun, the Caps and Avalanche have been talking about this trade since August. Who knows if DL actually was even talking to the Caps? Just because Matt Barry and Eklund said it you believe them?

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:14 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Kings missed out on Fleishman...Lombardi is very shrewd...how many forwards are we going to lose out on through UFA and trades...it's getting ridiculous...what was the last trade we made? Halpern and Modin during the deadline? Sheesh.
Haha. Kings didn't miss out. Dean didn't want to give up one our NHL ready defenseman for him. Rightfully so. We don't even know if the Kings even talked to the Caps.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:16 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Kingme00 View Post
By uncharacteristic, I'm assuming you mean obstruction/interference type penalties... bascially 'lazy' penalties? I do agree that in the preseason he did, but once the season started, he took 1 tripping minor, 1 HS minor and 1 roughing minor.

If I recall that tripping penalty he took vs Vancover, he was defending a player coming down the boards and the guy chipped it into the LA zone. You could see Doughty wanted to go for the hip check, but hesitated and it got to a point where the player didnt have the puck for a good 2-3 seconds. Any hit now would've been interference , but by the time that decision was made, the guy had already gotten around Doughty so he reached out with his stick.

Now, that was probably too many words for something insignificant, but to me it demonstrates a player making a poor decision based on wanting to throw the big hit versus being out of shape.

Also, I don't see how trying to beat players one-on-one demonstrates a lack of fitness. He's been doing those failed rushes going back to his junior days. Any Guelph fan will tell you, for every spectacular end to end rush he scored on, there were 10 failed attempts.

Lastly, how does someone lacking in fitness log 23-29 minutes per game? It's not like he's looks gassed at the end of the games recently. He's looks sluggish right from the start....
So you're saying that Doughty played poorly in the preseason, then had five good games with Mitchell, then the concussion, and has been back to playing poorly since? So our evidence that he's NOT out of shape is that five good games when he played with Mitchell? It looks to me like those five games are the aberration that needs to be explained (Mitchell?).

Look, I'm happy to admit that I can't KNOW if he's out of shape or not. I can't skate with him or run physical tests or anything, so it's all speculation. Still, I stand by my statement that he looks slower than last year.

But I've also stressed in this thread and others that I think his head isn't in the game consistently. His decision-making is clearly a notch lower, evidenced by the incident you cited above when he went for a big hit instead of making a safe defensive play. There are also the attempts to beat guys one-on-one at inopportune moments. For the record, I have no problem with him rushing the puck or trying to make moves on guys. When he's on his game, he's an aggressive player and that's part of what makes him good. I just question the timing or situations where it happens. He's been coughing up the puck at bad moments much more than in the past.

So, perhaps he's not of shape, just unfocused. I'll buy the theory that his lack of focus makes it appear that he's slower because his positioning is off.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:23 PM
  #741
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Oh and people who are bagging on our 20 year old generational talented D should remember that the kid has been playing above his head and was one of the runner ups for the Norris trophy. If he is struggling there is a reason behind it that has nothing to do with effort. When the chips are down is when our team and its players need their fans the most.

Game changers. How many times have we heard a player of a pro sports team talk about how important the fans were to their winning? Well they aren't talking about people cheering them when they are blowing out the other team, they are talking about the people who bought tickets and cheered for the team when they were facing adversity. They are talking about the people who used their voices to help raise the spirits of the team. They are talking about playing with the knowledge that the town that they are playing for is right there behind them cheering them on regardless.

Of course its frustrating for us but do you think its any less frustrating for them? We expect their best effort while we aren't giving ours all of the time and I understand as much as anyone else how much effort has been put into being a fan of this team through the decades and appreciate that we all need to vent at times but I just think that its when times get tough and our team is struggling that they need to hear that their fans are behind them and believe that they will turn things around.

If you want to vent DL is an easy man to find during the day for those of you who live in Los Angeles. You can simply seek him out at the Toyota Center or swing by Staples and if you can't do that he has an email addy and if that doesn't work for you he has a phone number. Maybe you won't actually reach him but if you think that we are struggling and need to do something to address an obvious and glaring need then let him know.

Taking it out on DD is not only misguided in my opinion, its counter productive.

I don't mean to offend anyone so if I do I absolutely apologize.

My opinion is that we have a team that is a winger away from being a legitimate contender for the Stanley Cup and not just for one season, but for several and that while I don't see our current coaching staff to be the ones to lead our team there and that our GM needs to get busy and bust open the wallet to fill a specific need that we have I still believe that we are closer then we have really ever been save one year of 99's reign to winning the cup.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:27 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
This is not what happened here. According to Pierre LeBrun, the Caps and Avalanche have been talking about this trade since August. Who knows if DL actually was even talking to the Caps? Just because Matt Barry and Eklund said it you believe them?
My opinion doesn't have anything to do with what Matt and or Eklund has said about it and I understand that from where your sitting the reason that you have drawn the conclusion that have.

It did happen exactly the way that I said it did but its cool if you see it differently.

The Avs and the Caps have been talking about this deal doesn't negate the fact that the Kings and the Caps have been talking about this trade for awhile or the fact the other teams and the Caps have been talking about this trade for awhile. I like PLB but he is a reporter, he states things that have happened after the fact so in my opinion he has to play it pretty safe. Talk to him away from the cameras and the microphones and you'll meet a different guy with a pretty different take.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:28 PM
  #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
How many times have we seen DL start a deal and then have the other team turn to everyone else and say "were gonna deal player X, here is what the Kings are offering can you better it" and have us get beaten out?

I can state for a fact that I know of four times that this has happened and while two of the times involved UFA's the other two didn't and here we are again. I am starting to fall in line with those who say that DL might be one of the most gifted scouts and assessors of NHL potential of all time but he isn't cut out to be a GM.

I guess I am just frustrated but I would love it if Hammond or even DL himself would tell the fans what is actually happening behind the scenes, if he (or they are whomever) would I can tell you two things that would happen, one is that everyone would start questioning more seriously what DL is up to and two the people critical of those who cover the team and handle passing along rumored potential deals would get allot more respect.

We almost lost WM and at the last minute DL ups the offer and we just barely get him and now there is another deal that we just wouldn't meet even though we have the ability to do so without a great cost but we somehow lose out again.

Well I know that I have heard of a couple of other deals that are supposed to be in the works but I haven't any faith that they will get done, not any longer.

There are allot of NHL professionals who are starting to look at us (and DL) and and are saying WTF? Low Ball DL isn't going to get us what we so glaringly and obviously need, its time to pay the piper and put the final pieces in place. It still might take us another season to win a cup but we should at the very least ice the best team possible. You have gathered and kept the assets, now is the time to use them and make this deal happen. Either one, your choice but it is clearly the time.
Careful there TG. You're going to rile up K17.
The reality is that too much is wrong with the team right now for any one move (other than coach?) to do anything. And a coaching change is HIGHLY unlikely.
We have traded away or failed to sign too many goals in the last few seasons, and the pipe dream of Parse scoring 20 is closer to a crack pipe than reality. We have one effective offensive line which has gone cold, and our vaunted #1 center looks like a shell of himself. If it wasnt for Shellz boy (JQ) this team would be closer in the standing to Edmonton than I care to think about.

Whats obvious is that we miss Mitchell and to a lesser extent, Poniboy, but neither one of those guys were scoring much so the offensive woes need to be addressed.
Problem is DL has dug himself into ahole, and like Mike Mulligan's steam shovel hasn't left himself an easy way out. Add to that the concept that DL apparently doesn't like trading, (or is it the thought of being fleeced he is scared of?) and it could be a long December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
He traded Avery and Conroy during the season.

Avery trade fetched us Cliche.
The second round pick acquired in the Conroy trade was packaged with Cammalleri to get Teubert. And we took Dwight King with the fourth rounder.
C, no grade yet (and maybe not ever (meaning Fail)), and D. Not a good average.
Its looking like we aren't as good as everyone else thought and the team (DL included) started to believe the hype, which commonly considered a classic recipe for disaster.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:33 PM
  #744
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So you're saying that Doughty played poorly in the preseason, then had five good games with Mitchell, then the concussion, and has been back to playing poorly since? So our evidence that he's NOT out of shape is that five good games when he played with Mitchell? It looks to me like those five games are the aberration that needs to be explained (Mitchell?).
I'm just saying he took alot of penalties in the preseason and that his first 5 games of the "real" season were not as disasterous as his games since he's been back from his concussion. I never said he played to the level that we know he is capable of at the start of the season.

I think the main evidence would be his ice time and the fact that he's been pretty sluggish right from the start of games. I think if he was in fact out of shape, he'd look pretty good early on and wither as the game progressed.

Quote:
Look, I'm happy to admit that I can't KNOW if he's out of shape or not. I can't skate with him or run physical tests or anything, so it's all speculation. Still, I stand by my statement that he looks slower than last year.

But I've also stressed in this thread and others that I think his head isn't in the game consistently. His decision-making is clearly a notch lower, evidenced by the incident you cited above when he went for a big hit instead of making a safe defensive play. There are also the attempts to beat guys one-on-one at inopportune moments. For the record, I have no problem with him rushing the puck or trying to make moves on guys. When he's on his game, he's an aggressive player and that's part of what makes him good. I just question the timing or situations where it happens. He's been coughing up the puck at bad moments much more than in the past.

So, perhaps he's not of shape, just unfocused. I'll buy the theory that his lack of focus makes it appear that he's slower because his positioning is off.
I don't disagree with any of this. He is clearly not the same player as last year. My only argument was that it could be some other factor besides his fitness level.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:37 PM
  #745
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Point taken Die Hard.

I don't want to put off anyone including k17. I agree that Shellz boy and his stellar play is largely the reason for our winning streak. DL has been trying to make a trade, a few actually and he is getting fleeced by not pulling the trigger. That is really my larger point regarding him as a GM. Look at how many of his picks are considered NHL capable or are in the NHL and you can see how great he is at one aspect of his job, then look at where our biggest glaring hole is on our team and the player(s) that he low ball offered or lost and you see another.

I still see us as being the right winger (check the pulse and if they have scored more than 25 goals in one season ever in their entire lifetime then go for it, kidding of course) away from being right back in the hunt.

If DL doesn't pull the trigger on one of these deals then as much as I hate to say it I think he might lose my allegiance. Not much of a deal in the big picture of things if anything at all but I have thought that he was actually the architect of a winning franchise. We have looked, we don't have the player we need in the system, its time to fill the need.

Other than that I honestly think that I am out on this one.

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11-30-2010, 03:42 PM
  #746
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Quote:
Lombardi barely ever makes deals...he is the exact opposite of Bryan Murray or Brian Burke, GM's who are always making moves or at least trying.

Fleishman may not be the answer BUT HE IS BETTER THAN King, Richardson, switching Brown to the LW or wtf the Kings are trying to band aid at the first line.
Who were you willing to give up to get Fleischmann? More than Hannan? Maybe Washington didn't want to be on the hook after this season, since they were trading an UFA to be, and the Kings didn't have any UFA defensemen next summer.

Quote:
How many times have we seen DL start a deal and then have the other team turn to everyone else and say "were gonna deal player X, here is what the Kings are offering can you better it" and have us get beaten out?
Quote:
We almost lost WM and at the last minute DL ups the offer and we just barely get him
So if another team at the last minute beats Lombardi's offer, that's bad. But if Lombardi beats an offer at the last minute, it's not really good enough.

Quote:
now there is another deal that we just wouldn't meet even though we have the ability to do so without a great cost but we somehow lose out again.
How do the Kings beat the Avs offer without a great cost? The Avs traded a defenseman, who will be a free agent, who has 775 games of NHL experience, and another 73 games of playoff experience. Who on the Kings compares to that? Greene? Scuderi? Mitchell? Would they be worth trading in this deal?

True, Fleischmann is better than what the Kings have to throw out there at the moment, but why get all crazy?

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11-30-2010, 03:42 PM
  #747
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Either we're really not that good, or we're not playing up to the potential. Right now it's probably both. Kopitar, Doughty and the rest of the core save for Quick aren't getting it done and there's a big fat hole in the top 6 and it's been for quite some time now. Then there's the fact that our back isn't really good at moving the puck, which I've been saying for a while. I love Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene, but that's 9.85 million dollars locked up in defensive defensmen. I'll see what Dean has up his sleeve and see where this thing goes, but there's a lot of issues showing up on differnet lovels through this organ-eye-zation. I'd be a lot less worried if it was a single issue, but it's not.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:48 PM
  #748
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Oh Matthew Barry.

One day you will be right when it comes to a trade.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:53 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
Ill tell you what, when i had a concussion, i never drank so much tecate and ate so many hot dogs and doughnuts in my life.
Concussion = Smoking?

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Originally Posted by son of earl View Post
It was open at the last game.

Yeah but was it Grand?

Buddy The Elf is offline  
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11-30-2010, 03:56 PM
  #750
Scottkmlps
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Who were you willing to give up to get Fleischmann? More than Hannan? Maybe Washington didn't want to be on the hook after this season, since they were trading an UFA to be, and the Kings didn't have any UFA defensemen next summer.

So if another team at the last minute beats Lombardi's offer, that's bad. But if Lombardi beats an offer at the last minute, it's not really good enough.

How do the Kings beat the Avs offer without a great cost? The Avs traded a defenseman, who will be a free agent, who has 775 games of NHL experience, and another 73 games of playoff experience. Who on the Kings compares to that? Greene? Scuderi? Mitchell? Would they be worth trading in this deal?

True, Fleischmann is better than what the Kings have to throw out there at the moment, but why get all crazy?
Nobody even looks at the points you just posted. It's always a knee jerk reaction of, "Lombardi missed another one." or "Lombardi is an idiot.", but they never stop to think about why Lombardi didn't give up a certain player for a certain player.
The put downs, panic and everything else on this board and the other board is beyond rediculous. The team is in a SLUMP. Live with it people, it happens to EVERY team, be it a great team or not. The Kings are going through a slump and all of a sudden Doughty is fat, Kopitar is lazy, Brown is not captain material, Murray and/or Lombardi should be fired, and my favorite one, the Kings are no closer to being a cup contender than they were 5 years ago.
Slumps happen to the best of them, and the Kings will come out of it a better team.

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