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Old
11-29-2010, 10:05 PM
  #726
Viqsi
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And on a side note... it's been two days, and there's something still eating at me. It's shameful, and it's horrible, but it's not going away, so... I'm sorry, guys, but I have to finally own up and admit it...



I actually like Jordin Tootoo now.

(We really need to have a DD versus Avery fight. That'll help, I think.)

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Old
11-29-2010, 10:09 PM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post

I actually like Jordin Tootoo now.
Mods, plz ban.

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Old
11-29-2010, 10:12 PM
  #728
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Mods, plz ban.

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Old
11-30-2010, 08:04 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I actually hate Jordin Tootoo a wee tiny bit less, now.
Fixed?

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Old
11-30-2010, 08:31 AM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
i was thinking tyutin and a mid prospect...seriously, its Calgary....and i don't want to trade commie, who's been one of our better defensemen
Really? I don't think he has been that stellar. He is slow and gets beat frequently. Hence why he is always taking holding and hooking penalties.

Commodore has played in 9 games and is 4th on the team in PIM (19).

Methot has played 19 games and has 8 PIM

Tyutin has played all 22 games and has 10 PIM.

Commodore takes bad penalties, because he is out of position, and slow. Even if Regher is redundant to Commodore, I would venture to guess he is a bit quicker, by looking at his 12 PIM in 23 games.

If Commdore keeps up his pace (for math sake 20 PIM every 10 games) he is set to take another 120 PIM this year. This would put him into the range of Jared Boll, who had 149 PIM last year. You don't take holding and hooking peanlties by playing good defense, and being in position.


Last edited by kshymkiw: 11-30-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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Old
11-30-2010, 08:54 AM
  #731
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Methot and Hejda are the only defensemen who have played with any consistency. That we are fourth in the league in Goals Against is a miracle of Fatima-esque proportions.

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Old
11-30-2010, 09:21 AM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Methot and Hejda are the only defensemen who have played with any consistency. That we are fourth in the league in Goals Against is a miracle of Fatima-esque proportions.
Methot and Hejda have been just as consistent as Tyutin.

Hejda lost us the Detroit game Friday.

Methot gets flustered too easily. He makes lots of mistakes, but has been able to cover them up.

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Old
11-30-2010, 09:30 AM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Methot and Hejda have been just as consistent as Tyutin.
I don't agree that Methot and Hejda have been as consistently bad as Fedor. He just has not been able to regain the level of play at which he performed prior to last year. I don't know why and I don't know if he can snap out of it; but I see him as a liability, this year, and I'm very disappointed with his game. While Methot has been a very pleasant surprise and Hejda, dispite an occasional hiccup, has been his usual steady self, Tyutin has just not played up to my (and, I believe, most of our) expectations.

I can accept that you see it differently, but that's my view.

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Old
11-30-2010, 12:10 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I don't agree that Methot and Hejda have been as consistently bad as Fedor. He just has not been able to regain the level of play at which he performed prior to last year. I don't know why and I don't know if he can snap out of it; but I see him as a liability, this year, and I'm very disappointed with his game. While Methot has been a very pleasant surprise and Hejda, dispite an occasional hiccup, has been his usual steady self, Tyutin has just not played up to my (and, I believe, most of our) expectations.

I can accept that you see it differently, but that's my view.
If we're going to crucify Tyutin for his turnovers, it doesn't make a lot of sense for everybody to give Hejda a pass, especially after that debacle friday night.

I agree with kshymkiw.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:10 PM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I don't agree that Methot and Hejda have been as consistently bad as Fedor. He just has not been able to regain the level of play at which he performed prior to last year. I don't know why and I don't know if he can snap out of it; but I see him as a liability, this year, and I'm very disappointed with his game. While Methot has been a very pleasant surprise and Hejda, dispite an occasional hiccup, has been his usual steady self, Tyutin has just not played up to my (and, I believe, most of our) expectations.

I can accept that you see it differently, but that's my view.
Tyutin has stepped back in time now. He is playing like he did in NY. He has been more physical, and is gaining confidence with every game.

I don't understand how you people sit here and crucify Tyutin, when every other defender makes just as many mistakes.

Stats speak. Tyutin does have the most giveaways with 10 (Hejda has 6, next closest). Tyutin also has 14 Takeaways (Klesa at 9, next closest). So while he may give up the puck, he gets it back.


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Old
11-30-2010, 04:20 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Tyutin has stepped back in time now. He is playing like he did in NY. He has been more physical, and is gaining confidence with every game.

I don't understand how you people sit here and crucify Tyutin, when every other defender makes just as many mistakes.

Stats speak. Tyutin does have the most giveaways with 10 (Hejda has 6, next closest). Tyutin also has 14 Takeaways (Klesa at 9, next closest). So while he may give up the puck, he gets it back.
Since you quoted me, I'll reply. If you could read my last post and call that "crucifying" Tyutin, you'd never have made much of a Roman. I'd call that criticism more of a tickle.

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Old
11-30-2010, 06:59 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Since you quoted me, I'll reply. If you could read my last post and call that "crucifying" Tyutin, you'd never have made much of a Roman. I'd call that criticism more of a tickle.
Not saying you personally did. This board has crucified him though on several ocassions.

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Old
12-01-2010, 07:24 AM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Stats speak. Tyutin does have the most giveaways with 10 (Hejda has 6, next closest). Tyutin also has 14 Takeaways (Klesa at 9, next closest). So while he may give up the puck, he gets it back.
I don't have stats to prove me, but I would think that forwards have much more giveaways than d-men. So taking this into consideration, if Tyutin has 10-14, it might actually be considered as a minus.

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Old
12-01-2010, 02:13 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Methot and Hejda are the only defensemen who have played with any consistency. That we are fourth in the league in Goals Against is a miracle of Fatima-esque proportions.
Klesla hasn't been consistent? I'd argue that Tyutin has been consistent with what Tyutin brings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handyy View Post
I don't have stats to prove me, but I would think that forwards have much more giveaways than d-men. So taking this into consideration, if Tyutin has 10-14, it might actually be considered as a minus.
Not sure tied for 95th among other D-Men in the NHL would classify 10 as a huge number. Considering Duncan Keith has 32. Also consider that 14 takeaways would be tied for 11th in the NHL.

10 giveaways would rank you about the same with forwards and defensemen.

I still don't get this Tyutin turnover machine mentality. Oh well.

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Old
12-01-2010, 02:24 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Klesla hasn't been consistent? I'd argue that Tyutin has been consistent with what Tyutin brings.



Not sure tied for 95th among other D-Men in the NHL would classify 10 as a huge number. Considering Duncan Keith has 32. Also consider that 14 takeaways would be tied for 11th in the NHL.

10 giveaways would rank you about the same with forwards and defensemen.

I still don't get this Tyutin turnover machine mentality. Oh well.
I don't either. When you look at the NHL as a whole, the CBJ are actually a pretty low turnover team.

The defenseman with the most turnovers in the nhl right now though is Duncan Keith, with 32 giveaways. In fact Tyutin isn't in the top 50.

I attached the top 60 or so in the NHL...some pretty big names in there

Kaberle
Keith
Getzlaf
Seabrook

The moral of this is, you can't make high reward plays without high risk. You are going to turn the puck over, it is a fact of life. You just want to minimize it. All of our defensemen, when compared to the rest of the league, do a pretty fine job.




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Old
12-01-2010, 03:05 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Klesla hasn't been consistent? I'd argue that Tyutin has been consistent with what Tyutin brings.



Not sure tied for 95th among other D-Men in the NHL would classify 10 as a huge number. Considering Duncan Keith has 32. Also consider that 14 takeaways would be tied for 11th in the NHL.

10 giveaways would rank you about the same with forwards and defensemen.

I still don't get this Tyutin turnover machine mentality. Oh well.
good point...i guess i just notice his more b/c perhaps (and i'm just guessing here, it may or may not be truthful) they're at more inopportune times / lead to more scoring chances...perhaps i'm way off base...wouldn't be first time, won't be last time

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Old
12-01-2010, 03:27 PM
  #742
pete goegan
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Klesla hasn't been consistent? I'd argue that Tyutin has been consistent with what Tyutin brings.
You're right, I overlooked Rusty.

I don't know that I'd agree that the play of Tyutin last year and, so far, this year, is consistent with his play of '08-'09. The question, then, would seem to be: which is the level we should expect from him? I'd certainly prefer to believe he's capable of consistent performance at the level he achieved his first year here, but that may not be the case. Whether he's seen as a whipping boy, scapegoat, or martyr, I do think it's difficult to profess that he's been as effective on the blue line as he was in the playoff season.

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Old
12-02-2010, 03:41 AM
  #743
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Old
12-02-2010, 05:17 AM
  #744
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And on a side note... it's been two days, and there's something still eating at me. It's shameful, and it's horrible, but it's not going away, so... I'm sorry, guys, but I have to finally own up and admit it...


I actually like Jordin Tootoo now.

(We really need to have a DD versus Avery fight. That'll help, I think.)
Should've banned you like TW said.

Any Sabres you secretly like?

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Old
12-02-2010, 05:56 AM
  #745
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The NHL's giveaway/takeaway stats are a fairly uselss as stats go because they provide no context and giveaways/takeways are something where context is everything.

Getzlaf would seem to be the perfect example of this. Since I watch him on a regular basis, my guess is that the bulk of those giveaways are because he is possessing the puck in the so-called "dirty" areas of the ice, in the offensive zone and ends up giving away the puck after being checked in the corners, behind the net and in the slot or in attempting to make a pass in high traffic areas.

It is a bit more troubling to see defensemen with significant number of giveaways...but some of that is still context. A giveaway by a d-man at the blueline can lead to a breakaway. A giveaway by a d-man deep in their own zone can be the result of a reasonable attempt to clear the zone...or a blind pass that yields a scoring chance in the slot.

You see some evidence of this context issue in the presence of so many Leafs defensemen on this list. Their defense is probably the best thing they have going for them. But their lack of offense and, I suspect, amount of time spent in their own end as a result puts their defensemen in a position where they are more likely to turnover the puck in an attempt to desperately clear the zone.

If plus/minus is an imperfect stat, giveaways/takeaways are less perfect still because of the number of factors behind the numbers. They might be more useful if they were broken down by which zone they occured in, but, as is, I just find them difficult stats to put a lot of stock in.

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Old
12-02-2010, 08:01 AM
  #746
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Watch the whole thing.

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Old
12-02-2010, 08:27 AM
  #747
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I cannot help myself :

Interesting!! Hmm. So Scotty was a rough boy....

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Old
12-02-2010, 10:53 AM
  #748
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=847655

We only have to deal with Scott Hannan at the most twice a year from now on.

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Old
12-02-2010, 11:44 AM
  #749
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
The NHL's giveaway/takeaway stats are a fairly uselss as stats go because they provide no context and giveaways/takeways are something where context is everything.
I tend to agree with most of what you said. I'm not even sure what they use for criteria. What it does illustrate, however, is that Tyutin is not an abnormally high turnover machine in the NHL.

Most stats are flawed, such as assists. And to a certain extent even FO%. So I tend to not get too worked up over it. Goals, shots, and PROD tend to get my attention.

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Old
12-02-2010, 11:59 AM
  #750
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http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie...89881142378496

Edit: maybe this link is better -

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

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