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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VIII

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Old
12-01-2010, 04:30 PM
  #876
ScoreZeGoals
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
People seem to forget that the Kings were drafting a defenseman that year with their first pick no matter what. None of the other d men that went in that first round have done squat either, so Hickey isn't a worse pick than anyone else would have been. Sorry but Lombardi can't inject "natural talent" into his draft picks or the entire draft class to make them better.
Is this really the best thing to do when approaching a draft pick? It's not like the Kings were overloaded with talent so that they could afford blind thinking like this

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12-01-2010, 04:32 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Is this really the best thing to do when approaching a draft pick? It's not like the Kings were overloaded with talent so that they could afford blind thinking like this
Again, the past 4 drafts they stocked forwards, Brown, Kopitar, Lewis, etc, they had NO DEFENSIVE PROSPECTS,

They took the best D available, is it really this hard to understand?

If from 2003-2010 they had stockpiled forwards,

Herby would be on here lamenting how they stockpiled forwards instead of D....

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12-01-2010, 04:35 PM
  #878
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Hmmm, interesting idea, but looking at the decent RW in the league, I'm not quite sure who might be available
Of listed right wingers, some possibilities that may be or become available by the deadline:

Bergfors
Iginla
Hemsky
Kovalev
Ryder
Wheeler maaaybe

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Old
12-01-2010, 04:37 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Is this really the best thing to do when approaching a draft pick? It's not like the Kings were overloaded with talent so that they could afford blind thinking like this
Yes it is, when you have no defense in your system. Here is a list of the defensemen in Manchester in 2007:

Kemp
Harrold
Werner
Schmidt
Hoffman
Tverdovsky
Mormina
Nolan
Buckley
Likens
Dallman
Weaver
Petiot

Understand now?

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12-01-2010, 04:42 PM
  #880
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I'll even go one step further, here are the d that played for the Kings that same year:

Lubo
Blake
Nordstroom
Modry
Miller
Sopel
Dallman
Heward
Piskula
Johnson (5 games)

Not hard to see why we drafted a D man that year

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Old
12-01-2010, 04:59 PM
  #881
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I thought that I would add one last bit of gris for the mill.

DL has transformed our D via trade(s) and ufa signings (Willie, Scuds Greene and JJ) and we are only starting to see the rest of his kids mature on the blue line. Muzzin looks like the real thing to me and that was what I was saying about A-Mart last year. I would say that Muzz is going to be bang on ready by next year (hopefully he gets a few more cups of tea with us this year). A-Mart is obviously ready and should continue to come into his own. I expect little bumps along the way but he will be a good one (4/6 potential with offencive upside).

Voynov might be the best of the bunnch if we can sign and keep him. Everything that everyone has liked about A-Mart and Muzzin Voynov does better and cleaner. Tuebert plays a mean physical game and is taking what I call normal D time to mature. If he can step onto our team NHL ready at 24 then he would be doing what several other amazing D men have done in the past and that is break into the league once they have fully matured.

Hickey is Hickey, I like his game and think that he has top pairing written all over him, sometimes. If he can put it all together for this season and get back to playing the way he did for MCH during the play offs last year (and to some extent pre season this year) then I see him as another top pairing guy who we will be happy to have. Campbell can play, I don't know where he will end up and I used to hate his game but after watching 4 hours of tape on the kid I agree, he can play. When and where might still be up in the air but he has all the basic skills to carry him to the NHL. Kaunisto is a gamer and can skate.. Will he make it? Who knows. To me he seems like one of those Tim Watters types who just sort of finds themselves on an NHL roster one day due to circumstances and ends up making a career out of it. I don't think that he does anything exceptionally well but I do think that he does everything well enough to have value.

In goal JB is JB, I for one don't think he will ever make it in the NHL if he isn't handed the puck at the start of the year and given as many games as possible to get going. If that happens for him he will be one of the best in a decade (of young kids to come up) and who knows where he tops out. If not we will deal him and ruin his career ala the kings of old.

If you haven't watched Jones play goal yet then you should. He plays nails calm cool and collected hockey with an edge. He just always seems to be cool headed and in control. He reminds me of a young Bill Ranford in some ways with a tiny little bit of Hextall. I like the kid and think he has the goods, time will tell.

Up front is a totally different thing and other people follow those players closer. I can say that I have watched a ton of Kitsyn and he has ridiculous hands and is such a skilled player that I almost don't want him to stay with us. I know its a sad thing to say but he has rare hands and I would hate for him to miss out on an NHL career because of something that we did to ruin his development. If he can keep on track and not get rushed along I think he could be a real winner. I have written about Vey and how much I like his game and Toffoli is a 67 so you know that I have seen allot of him and have spoken extensively with his coaches. They all say the same thing "what's not to love about this kid" and "the Kings stole this one". These are guys who have been around the game for 40+ years and have seen the best of them come and go and they are all so high on Toff that it seems too good to be true except that it isn't.

I think that we are still a year away from seeing how much DL has done with regards to stockpiling an amazing amount of talent in our system. By then we should start seeing more and more of DL's kids making it in the NHL and I know that we will all be impressed with them when we do.


As to DL's ability as a GM, I am losing a bit of faith.

The guy is one of the best assessors of NHL potential talent I have ever seen in 4 decades of playing and being around the game. I am not certain that he has the same ability as a GM.



Here's a trade rumor for you.

The B's are now actively trying to deal two players. They dealt Hunwick (which is an amazing deal for the B's, I am not worried about facing him on the Avs at all) but still need to make more room.

One of the B followers who I respect has said that we (the Kings) have been in long term talks with them about Savard. No big news there. What is noteworthy is that Savard said recently after a practice that he would be happy to play in Los Angeles (allegedly).

Sure it doesn't mean anything really but then that's the difference between a rumor and something more concrete. One is speculative guessing based on an assemblage of different opinions and the other is the same thing only based on a few more facts.

Gris/Mill.

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Old
12-01-2010, 05:16 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Here's a trade rumor for you.

The B's are now actively trying to deal two players. They dealt Hunwick (which is an amazing deal for the B's, I am not worried about facing him on the Avs at all) but still need to make more room.

One of the B followers who I respect has said that we (the Kings) have been in long term talks with them about Savard. No big news there. What is noteworthy is that Savard said recently after a practice that he would be happy to play in Los Angeles (allegedly).

Sure it doesn't mean anything really but then that's the difference between a rumor and something more concrete. One is speculative guessing based on an assemblage of different opinions and the other is the same thing only based on a few more facts.

Gris/Mill.
Always appreciate your insight.. thank you.

But question, what would boston realistically want for someone like savard? They dont have alot of caproom to play with and have seguin for next year.

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Old
12-01-2010, 05:20 PM
  #883
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This is not my argument, and I agree it's hard to compare different draft years with each other. I guess I would just like to see some progress from some of these draft picks.

Thomas Hickey was drafted to be an offensive d-man, he has yet to make that step even at the junior level, his production as a 19 year old junior player was the same as it was as a 17 year old. And now he is struggling offensively in Manchester. It's easy to say he is only 21, but when is he going to live up to the billing, saying he should be a good NHL'er might be a reach, but atleast be a good AHL'er.

Colten Teubert, well I must admit this is the first move where I really started to question what kind of team Lombardi was building. You trade arguably your most skilled player, a former 80 point player who was 26 at the time and you use the pick you got for him to draft Colten Teubert? A player whos absolute max out potential is another Bryan Marchment. And leaving all those much more talented players on the board was a joke/ Sorry that pick left me with a really bad taste in my mouth, and it gets worse and worse as each of those guys taken after him continues to shine in the NHL.

Even with all that I figured that within no more than a year Cammalleri would be replaced, here we are going on three years later and he hasn't been replaced.


Last edited by Herby: 12-01-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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Old
12-01-2010, 05:25 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Is this really the best thing to do when approaching a draft pick? It's not like the Kings were overloaded with talent so that they could afford blind thinking like this
The Lombardi supporters talk out of both sides of their mouths.

They say in one post that DL drafts the BPA every time and that is why we took Forbort this year.

Then they justify the Hickey and Teubert picks by saying that we needed a d-man in 2007 and a "tough" defenseman in 2008.

So which is it guys?

There is no way that Teubert and Lewis for example...were the BPA. None at all.

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Old
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
Always appreciate your insight.. thank you.

But question, what would boston realistically want for someone like savard? They dont have alot of caproom to play with and have seguin for next year.
I could see them accepting one of our D prospects for him, maybe add a meh pick as well.

Savard if he hasn't had his can rattled too hard would be another great fit for us. He would step in and give us a real 1/1b punch up the middle and in doing so make room for our glaring dark hole on LW.

If we he were healthy and centering our second line between Williams and whoever else it would force our opponents to deal with them as if they were a first line making them have to work pretty hard when trying to decide how to match up best against us. Right now its easy peasy. Shut down the top 2/3rds of a line and you've largely got us sussed.

Our 3rd line bites some people at times and can sort of make a little match up troubles but I can see us as being a significantly better team if we had a second line that caused trouble for our opponents. Heck we could put Smyth up on 1st line LW for the rest of the season with Kopi and Brown and give Savard Williams and even Stoll if we had to and that would do the job until we figured out what do actually do (if not stoll it really could be Richie or whomever until Parse came back).


Right now, today and for a little while longer the B's are ripe to be picked and while Sturm would be another good fit from them if someone makes a deal for one of those two then they may not deal the other.

Sturm is injured so with Savard right at ready to play then we should be all over them. It's been said that they would take Hickey and a 4rth or Campbell and Moller for him. Too many different things have been spread around to know who we would offer today but none of the names are the kind of players that we couldn't do with out.

That is if DL is actually interested in improving the team this season.

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Old
12-01-2010, 05:41 PM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The Lombardi supporters talk out of both sides of their mouths.

They say in one post that DL drafts the BPA every time and that is why we took Forbort this year.

Then they justify the Hickey and Teubert picks by saying that we needed a d-man in 2007 and a "tough" defenseman in 2008.

So which is it guys?

There is no way that Teubert and Lewis for example...were the BPA. None at all.
Perhaps it's possible that DL and co. did think that Teubert and Lewis were the best players available? Both players were billed as defensively sound, two-way prospects when drafted. Maybe not the "best players" for every team, but in the Kings' system, they're both good fits.

Simmonds and Clifford were not considered the best players available when they were picked by any scouting service or pundit, but those picks have turned out well.

For what it's worth, after this year's draft, I saw a quote from a Kings exec (either DL or Hexy) that said that the team was going to pick the best player available and gave preference to forwards. Forbort was considered to be head and shoulders above any player on the board even with that bias against him.

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Old
12-01-2010, 05:46 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Perhaps it's possible that DL and co. did think that Teubert and Lewis were the best players available? Both players were billed as defensively sound, two-way prospects when drafted. Maybe not the "best players" for every team, but in the Kings' system, they're both good fits.
.
I don't know, none of us were in the room.

But if your theory is correct and they did have these guys as the BPA. What does that say about DL and the scouts? Or the Kings system?

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12-01-2010, 05:57 PM
  #888
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If Savard says he would be happy to play in L.A. while still under contract to Boston, this would throw up a big red flag. Especially in DL's eyes.

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12-01-2010, 05:59 PM
  #889
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I sure hope the 'staches are gone now that it is December.

Piercember would be fun

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:01 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
If Savard says he would be happy to play in L.A. while still under contract to Boston, this would throw up a big red flag. Especially in DL's eyes.
Savard has had problems for years....He has issues in Calgary, there are issues in Boston, Colin Campbell has issues with him, wouldn't be the first time.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:02 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The Lombardi supporters talk out of both sides of their mouths.

They say in one post that DL drafts the BPA every time and that is why we took Forbort this year.

Then they justify the Hickey and Teubert picks by saying that we needed a d-man in 2007 and a "tough" defenseman in 2008.

So which is it guys?

There is no way that Teubert and Lewis for example...were the BPA. None at all.
No this is wrong. I specifically remember in his first year with the Kings, Lombardi said normally you select the best player available, but this team was so thin in defensive prospects they had no choice but to pick defenseman with their first pick for the first couple years. He always said when you build a team, you start with the goalie, then defense, then forwards. Now that some of those holes are filled on D with Hickey, Teubert, Voynov, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbert etc, they can now go back to drafting the BPA.

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12-01-2010, 06:04 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
If Savard says he would be happy to play in L.A. while still under contract to Boston, this would throw up a big red flag. Especially in DL's eyes.
I would guess that a lot would depend on the price as well as how Lombardi feels that certain vets that are already in the room (Williams, Smyth, Scuderi, Mitchell) would handle bringing a player like Savard into the fold. I don't think the attitude in the room is as fragile as it was say two years ago.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:14 PM
  #893
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How bout...

Handzus(if he would waive NTC), Hickey, and a 2nd rounder

for

Savard and Wheeler

Wheeler-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Savard-Brown
Poni-Stoll-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth/Lewis

Do it Deano.

Boston dumps 2.2M, gets a solid 3rd line center whos contract will be up in the summer, and a nice puck moving defensive prospect.

Basically its Handzus +2nd in 2011 for Savard, and Hickey for Wheeler.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:16 PM
  #894
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Boston could not affod to add Handzus salary...even if Savard's is dumped.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:21 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Can we get back to trade rumors....
The Savard rumor has started up again for some unknown reason. Everything just comes down to if we want to trade Schenn or not. I'm not a big fan of the idea but he's our most valuable asset and whenever you start talking about Staal, Savard, Semin, or whatever other legit top line forward you're going to have to decide if you keep him or not.


Thing is we're being screwed up whenever Dancing Boy tries to be important by making up rumors to create drama.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:24 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Boston could not affod to add Handzus salary...even if Savard's is dumped.
Not even with Wheelers 2.2M off the books? Plus they could dump Sturm in minors or trade him to a team as a playoff rental.....roster would look like this

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Recchi-Bergeron-Ryder
Seguin-Handzus-Caron
Thornton-Campbell-Marchand

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:27 PM
  #897
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Not even with Wheelers 2.2M off the books? Plus they could dump Sturm in minors or trade him to a team as a playoff rental.....roster would look like this

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Recchi-Bergeron-Ryder
Seguin-Handzus-Caron
Thornton-Campbell-Marchand
Pretty sure players have to accept the Assignment to the Minors. Plus they have to Clear waivers. Anyone of those brakes down and you lost them for nothing.

No Gm is keen on losing Roster players for nothing.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:32 PM
  #898
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I believe Handzus has a NTC?

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:38 PM
  #899
Herby
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Can we get back to trade rumors....

I think you are right on this one.

Can we create a topic and move some of the posts from here to there.

"Discussion of DL past and future moves"

something like that.

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Old
12-01-2010, 06:50 PM
  #900
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I believe Handzus has a NTC?
Yep he does. He mentioned that in his proposal, being contingent on him waiving the NTC.

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