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"Death Star Canteen" 12.01.10 Predators at Blue Jackets

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12-01-2010, 09:03 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Ever consider those guys were the freshest on the bench and had had a couple of long shifts in the CBJ end of the rink earlier in the game? Columbus was going for it with Nash, Vermette, etc...Trotz wanted to have fresh guys out there that were going to at least not get scored on.

Having played last night and traveled while your opponent sat at home and scouted you, I don't blame Trotz for insuring we got at least a point as time wore down.

As for OT, we are horrible at 4 on 4 hockey. We got burned on it for Columbus's first goal and I honestly think we stood a better chance of getting the second point in the shootout than in OT.

Bottom line...I disagree.
My point exactly, playing not to lose.

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12-01-2010, 09:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
My point exactly, playing not to lose.
No, those guys were not sitting back and trying to play a trap. They used their energy to aggressively forecheck and apply pressure. Trotz sent them out there to play defense, but he didn't instruct them not to try to score...

Trotz gave his team the best opportunity to win IMO...

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12-01-2010, 09:16 PM
  #78
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I kind of laughed after the Klein goal, because it was like we decided to mix things up and try something different. We looked like the Red Wings in that sequence...everything funneled toward the net. Shoot, win the rebound back, shoot again, win the rebound back, shoot again, score. Funny how things happen when you put shots on goal, rather than endlessly cycling in pursuit of the perfect tap-in goal.

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12-01-2010, 09:17 PM
  #79
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Man, I wonder how many goals Hornqvist would score if he had a dominant centre who could shoot more. Maybe Wilson one day....

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12-01-2010, 09:17 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
No, those guys were not sitting back and trying to play a trap. They used their energy to aggressively forecheck and apply pressure. Trotz sent them out there to play defense, but he didn't instruct them not to try to score...

Trotz gave his team the best opportunity to win IMO...
He gave them the best opportunity to get one point, not to win. You don't give points away to division rivals, especially as poorly as we've played lately. At some point we have to be able to go for it. Arniel like you said had Nash out there going for it and we counter with Smithson, Ward and Tootoo? That's giving us the best chance to win?

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12-01-2010, 09:19 PM
  #81
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You just can't go more the a minute at a time at this level. I don't think you understand the amount of energy expended during a 45 second shift. A tired, dead legged O'Reilly or Sully is far worse then a fresh Smithson or Tootoo.
Not to mention as far as matchups go, Nash would run wild with O'Reilly or Dumont in. It's punch-counterpunch. We had to counter, especially since we're the away team.

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12-01-2010, 09:25 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
You just can't go more the a minute at a time at this level. I don't think you understand the amount of energy expended during a 45 second shift. A tired, dead legged O'Reilly or Sully is far worse then a fresh Smithson or Tootoo.
Not to mention as far as matchups go, Nash would run wild with O'Reilly or Dumont in. It's punch-counterpunch. We had to counter, especially since we're the away team.
I realize that but Nash was out there practically double shifting. My point was Hornqvist and Dumont were basically fresh because they were on the bench for the entire third period and we play conservative, all the time. This is not a new thing, this has gone on for years. While I realize what Trotz is trying to do, get the point and possibly two, this is the same M.O. that gets us to the playoffs every year only to fail miserably because come playoff time you have to know how to play to win because if you don't you go home. In the regular season it works because you can come to play the next night. This won't change with Trotz at the helm.

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12-01-2010, 09:29 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
He gave them the best opportunity to get one point, not to win. You don't give points away to division rivals, especially as poorly as we've played lately. At some point we have to be able to go for it. Arniel like you said had Nash out there going for it and we counter with Smithson, Ward and Tootoo? That's giving us the best chance to win?
Just what did Hornqvist or JP do offensively tonight? Their 3 combined 1st period shots? That was it.

We've complained as a fanbase for years about JP being a defensive liability. Now tonight we should have him out there against Nash, Vorachek, Umberger, et al? While he's on a 7 game streak without a point (now 8)? Ok .... I don't see the logic in it ... but, ok.

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12-01-2010, 09:31 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
He gave them the best opportunity to get one point, not to win. You don't give points away to division rivals, especially as poorly as we've played lately. At some point we have to be able to go for it. Arniel like you said had Nash out there going for it and we counter with Smithson, Ward and Tootoo? That's giving us the best chance to win?
Name who on our roster can go head to head with Nash and make him play defense...

Arniel had the advantage of last change and also the advantage of double-shifting a star player with game-changing abilities...Trotz didn't...

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12-01-2010, 09:34 PM
  #85
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Great picture of Sully's goal.

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12-01-2010, 09:36 PM
  #86
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Last night at the end of the 3rd the team was playing not to lose and it almost cost us. In terms of coaching he wasn't coaching not to lose, he was coaching to win. We didn't have last change so Trotz HAD to respond to what the Jackets put out on the ice and that's exactly what he did. If those guys can go out and be aggressive for 30-45 seconds, then you try and get the fresh legs in on Nash and get your chances.

Gee you'd think Seth and I have coached a game or two ...

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12-01-2010, 09:37 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Name who on our roster can go head to head with Nash and make him play defense...

Arniel had the advantage of last change and also the advantage of double-shifting a star player with game-changing abilities...Trotz didn't...
5 minutes left in regulation right? Nash plays wing right? There are these two guys named Weber and Suter who play D and their responsibility is the wings right? Nash doesn't have to play D because his responsibility is the blueline. Why have all-star defensemen if you're not going to use them and if you fear Nash being on the ice and not having the elite pair, split them up so you know one of them is going to be out there watching Nash.

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12-01-2010, 09:41 PM
  #88
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Some of you talk about production lately but what has Ward done, Tootoo, Spaling offensively? Wilson scores tonight and you hardly see him late in the third. We draft him 7th overall to score and be dominant yet he sits on the bench. SK had a pretty solid game tonight yet towards the end his minutes were limited.

I understand everything that has been said but when you're tied with a division rival with 5 minutes to go, don't you want to go with your top 9? Doesn't that give you the best chance to win? If we're rolling 4 lines for most of the game, having the top 9 go a little more at that stage in the game shouldn't be a stretch at all. We complain about offense but the strategy used is defense first. If you are all for Trotz's strategy, then don't complain about the lack of offense from this team either.

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12-01-2010, 09:44 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
5 minutes left in regulation right? Nash plays wing right? There are these two guys named Weber and Suter who play D and their responsibility is the wings right? Nash doesn't have to play D because his responsibility is the blueline. Why have all-star defensemen if you're not going to use them and if you fear Nash being on the ice and not having the elite pair, split them up so you know one of them is going to be out there watching Nash.
Weber and Suter were -3 on the night already...

Also, the way we play defense is that a D and a forward play low with one always on the man and the others playing a box zone. Wings are still responsible for pinching down to limit time and space for a guy like Nash trying to cut to the slot off the cycle.

It's team defense. We don't play straight up man to man. I can't honestly name an NHL team that does anymore. Man on Box Behind is the most popular system in the league right now...

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12-01-2010, 09:48 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Some of you talk about production lately but what has Ward done, Tootoo, Spaling offensively? Wilson scores tonight and you hardly see him late in the third. We draft him 7th overall to score and be dominant yet he sits on the bench. SK had a pretty solid game tonight yet towards the end his minutes were limited.

I understand everything that has been said but when you're tied with a division rival with 5 minutes to go, don't you want to go with your top 9? Doesn't that give you the best chance to win? If we're rolling 4 lines for most of the game, having the top 9 go a little more at that stage in the game shouldn't be a stretch at all. We complain about offense but the strategy used is defense first. If you are all for Trotz's strategy, then don't complain about the lack of offense from this team either.
Honestly, my main complaint regarding the offense this season has been the reluctance to recall Lundmark or another offensive center while Lombardi, Legwand, and Goc have missed time.

The numbers are clear. With 3 of the 4 Opening Night centers in the lineup this team produces offense at a 3.1 goals per game clip. That's good enough for 6th in the league! With only 2 of 4 in the lineup they're now clicking at 1.64 goals per game - which is last in the league.

Ergo, I think you can't argue that Trotz is holding back the offense when when given a full compliment of centers HIS offense is good for 6th in the league! Blame Poile for not filling that 3rd center spot if you're going to blame anyone...

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12-01-2010, 09:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Some of you talk about production lately but what has Ward done, Tootoo, Spaling offensively? Wilson scores tonight and you hardly see him late in the third. We draft him 7th overall to score and be dominant yet he sits on the bench. SK had a pretty solid game tonight yet towards the end his minutes were limited.

I understand everything that has been said but when you're tied with a division rival with 5 minutes to go, don't you want to go with your top 9? Doesn't that give you the best chance to win? If we're rolling 4 lines for most of the game, having the top 9 go a little more at that stage in the game shouldn't be a stretch at all. We complain about offense but the strategy used is defense first. If you are all for Trotz's strategy, then don't complain about the lack of offense from this team either.
So who would be the top 9? Wilson had regular shifts in the third, he was on the ice for Klein's goal as was SK. The only players that had a drop in ice time was Hornqvist and Dumont. Hornqvist looked like he's hurt, and Dumont had a bad game. I wouldn't have put either of them out there either.

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12-01-2010, 09:57 PM
  #92
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Glenn,
We won tonight .... right?

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12-01-2010, 09:58 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Honestly, my main complaint regarding the offense this season has been the reluctance to recall Lundmark or another offensive center while Lombardi, Legwand, and Goc have missed time.

The numbers are clear. With 3 of the 4 Opening Night centers in the lineup this team produces offense at a 3.1 goals per game clip. That's good enough for 6th in the league! With only 2 of 4 in the lineup they're now clicking at 1.64 goals per game - which is last in the league.

Ergo, I think you can't argue that Trotz is holding back the offense when when given a full compliment of centers HIS offense is good for 6th in the league! Blame Poile for not filling that 3rd center spot if you're going to blame anyone...
Uh, didn't we draft Wilson to play center? While I think Goc has played really well this year, he's a third liner at best in this league. He hasn't proven that he's capable of anything more at this point in his career. Wilson is supposed to be the center of the future and afforded us to trade Arnott. Then why not use him like we did Arnott and give him his minutes? I realize Trotz is big on his system and paying attention to detail but it comes at a price of killing any sort of creativity for the young guys that come up in this system. He uses a number 2 overall pick as a shutdown center and limits Wilson's minutes.

If Lundmark was that much of an improvement, one, why is he not here and two, who are you going to sit? Smithson and Spaling both are in the good graces of Trotz and while I like what Spaling brings to the table, he would be the odd man out. Does that really help? It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I honestly wonder what Wilson and Hornqvist could do together with a decent winger. Those two seemed to have good chemistry and compliment each others skills. I'm sorry but I just don't see other teams playing their 4th line grinders when games are on the line.

If Dumont is too much of a defensive liability for what Trotz likes to play, then he needs to be traded or sat scratched so that he'll ask for a trade. I think it's funny that Trotz will play guys that have no offense yet will sit guys that aren't as good defensively. It's like one is acceptable and the other isn't. I get the fact that he wants guys to be well rounded and good two way players but some guys aren't going to be great defensively and some aren't going to be great offensively yet the offensively challenged ones still seem to get their minutes. Oh well, at least we got 2 points tonight.

Feeling so much better now that I've eaten some food.

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12-01-2010, 09:59 PM
  #94
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Glenn,
We won tonight .... right?
I needed food, much better now.

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12-01-2010, 10:02 PM
  #95
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So who would be the top 9? Wilson had regular shifts in the third, he was on the ice for Klein's goal as was SK. The only players that had a drop in ice time was Hornqvist and Dumont. Hornqvist looked like he's hurt, and Dumont had a bad game. I wouldn't have put either of them out there either.
Dumont can have a bad game and he gets benched, Smithson sucks for years at a time and yet he continues to get minutes. Does Smithson even have 60 points in his Preds career yet Dumont has average 60 points a year since he's been here. See what I'm getting at? Guys that suck continue to play while guys with talent go into a rough stretch and they are in the doghouse.

Holy crap, Parros just scored his second goal of the night. The apocalypse must be coming. If he gets an assist he'll have the Gordie Howe hat trick.

All that said, glad we got two.

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12-01-2010, 10:19 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Dumont can have a bad game and he gets benched, Smithson sucks for years at a time and yet he continues to get minutes. Does Smithson even have 60 points in his Preds career yet Dumont has average 60 points a year since he's been here. See what I'm getting at? Guys that suck continue to play while guys with talent go into a rough stretch and they are in the doghouse.
I wonder if Trotz punishes players who don't play to their potential. Tootoo, Smithson, Ward are all maxing out their potential. Trotz is getting what he expects from these 3rd/4th line guys. Dumont, however, is supposed to produce as a top six forward. The point is, more is expected from Dumont, because he is capable of more. No one expects Smithson to produce goals. Just my two cents on why Dumont is always in the doghouse.

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12-01-2010, 10:30 PM
  #97
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Smithson doesn't score goals but his TOI is like a scoring forward's TOI. I agree with glenn. I'm tired of us playing not to lose. It has burned us more often than not. I do think Trotz is lousy at utilitzing his forwards and maximizing their talents. The picking lines out of a hat is ridiculous. Figure out who should be together and leave them there! He certainly let Klein and Hamhuis play together for months despite the lack of chemistry. Why doesn't he let his forwards work things out? And how is JP supposed to produce when he has different line mates almost every shift he takes? I appreciate that Seth and jslg have coaching experience but alot of your posts read like excuses for our current coaching staff. I have wanted Trotz gone for a while and our recent offensive woes just justifies my feelings. And Poile can go too. His crappy forward drafting has brought us to this pass. It is time for a fresh start, too bad the ownership group doesn't see this.


Last edited by hockey diva: 12-01-2010 at 10:37 PM. Reason: adding stuff
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12-01-2010, 10:41 PM
  #98
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TSN said that we set a franchise record for not allowing an opposing team to score on the PP in eight straight games, lets hope we keep it up. I love little tidbits like that, always interesting.


It seems like we always get into this discussion, about Trotz and Poile, and I say we need to keep them. We are always in the middle of the road, not horrendous enough where we can draft an elite talent in the top five but not great enough to do actual damage in the offseason, the point is we're doing the best with what we can get every season while still pulling steals out of most drafts and UFAs so why mess with relative success?


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12-01-2010, 10:43 PM
  #99
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Unfortunately, since the hockey media has noticed it, we will get lit up in the next game.

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12-01-2010, 10:48 PM
  #100
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Unfortunately, since the hockey media has noticed it, we will get lit up in the next game.
That does always seem to be the case. Just in case, I'll knock on wood whilst wearing my four leaf clover shaped rabbit's foot.

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