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"Death Star Canteen" 12.01.10 Predators at Blue Jackets

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Old
12-01-2010, 11:13 PM
  #101
CantbeatzPekka
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Thought Wilson and SK played awesome tonight, we should see them get more minutes. Wilson as of late is looking like he is piecing together some key things and is looking more and more complete regardless of his ice time. SK also seems to be slowly finding his stride as well.

On Trotz, ill judge him and his decisions as soon as our team is healthy, it will be interesting to see what lines will be made/ who gets the shaft etc. Im hoping he makes the right ones as in Goc, SK, Wilson all getting top 9 minutes consistently if not top 6


FWIW, Santorelli scored again tonight, for his 7th goal of the season

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12-01-2010, 11:34 PM
  #102
Seth Lake
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Re-watching the game now as I wind down to go to sleep, but before I do...

What a performance by Nick Spaling tonight busting his tail to draw two penalties while shorthanded to kill off Columbus PP's! I absolutely love the kid!

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12-02-2010, 12:40 AM
  #103
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Glenn,

Just rewatched the end of regulation. Last four shifts were Smithson, Goc, O'Reilly, Goc. I don't know how Trotz was playing not to lose when he used his top six for the final three shifts of the game?

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12-02-2010, 12:51 AM
  #104
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interesting stats vis TSN

1. The Predators set a franchise record by not allowing a power-play goal in their eighth game in a row

2. Martin Erat had two assists. He has 40 points in his last 40 games against Columbus.

3. Sullivan has 43 points in 44 career games against Columbus

THE ARTICLE states Sully really botched his shootout attempt but it worked in his favor anyway.

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12-02-2010, 01:36 AM
  #105
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Love sport fans..if trotz did exactly as one of us said..we would be upset as well.

everything revolves around winning games..we did that tonight..all that matters IMO

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12-02-2010, 02:27 AM
  #106
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24-4-2
Thats the record against the CBJs in the past 30 games.

sheesh.

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12-02-2010, 03:38 AM
  #107
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Glenn,

Just rewatched the end of regulation. Last four shifts were Smithson, Goc, O'Reilly, Goc. I don't know how Trotz was playing not to lose when he used his top six for the final three shifts of the game?
If memory serves, and I can go back and watch the last 5 as well, what were the lines because I don't believe they were the same ones that were used earlier in the game. I just remember thinking, what the heck.

One other thing of note that goes with all of this, we had about 14 seconds left on a PP and we ice the Smithson line. We're right outside the offensive zone, if we win the faceoff, we can get in their zone and continue to attack, if we don't, make the appropriate line change and get Smithson's line out there. Not taking advantage of every opportunity is what kills us. This is the play not to lose attitude that I refer to as well. We put out a defensive line on the PP when we should still be icing a PP unit.

And while I appreciate a lot of the points being made on here, after watching the team for years, it's the same cycle of events every year. I'd like to watch a different video for once. We're a rollercoaster. We use the injury bug as an excuse. We use the we're not good enough but never bad enough excuse. We use the Trotz does great with what he's given and we shouldn't rock the boat. We talk about not having top tier talent. Other than Nash, who does Columbus have that's that much better than anyone we have up front? They certainly don't have the top tier blue line talent we have. They searched for a coach that seems to be getting the most out of their guys now. Does Trotz do that with our guys? Legwand? Erat? Dumont? Wilson? I'm not sure he is. We know some of these guys have the talent to score and put up points yet they're either limited to defensive roles while playing with no talent hacks or they're in the doghouse. I think a fresh start for some of these guys would do them a world of good. Then again, it could backfire and we could suck.

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12-02-2010, 06:18 AM
  #108
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You can compare Trotz to the new coaches at Columbus and St Louis all you want, the real test will be after the each of the teams hit a tough spot and see how they respond. Yes they respond well now, but Columbus responded under Hitchcock....for a while.

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12-02-2010, 06:33 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
You can compare Trotz to the new coaches at Columbus and St Louis all you want, the real test will be after the each of the teams hit a tough spot and see how they respond. Yes they respond well now, but Columbus responded under Hitchcock....for a while.
This.

All new coaches get their teams committed to their systems.

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12-02-2010, 07:57 AM
  #110
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On the post-game show (radio), Callahan said that Dumont had been sick, fighting a really bad head cold. I think they mentioned something about Hornqvist maybe being sick as well. Could be why they got limited ice time.

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12-02-2010, 07:58 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Re-watching the game now as I wind down to go to sleep, but before I do...

What a performance by Nick Spaling tonight busting his tail to draw two penalties while shorthanded to kill off Columbus PP's! I absolutely love the kid!
I agree Seth. I thought Spaling played an outstanding game, particularly on the penalty kill.

Trotz will have an interesting decision when Legwand comes back. My hope is that Spaling centers Tootoo and Smithson (both playing well right now) and Legwand replaces Spaling on the Dumont/Hornqvist line.

That leaves Ward out, or potentially someone else. I can't see sitting Kostitsyn right now, or Wilson. Great games from both of them last night.

Erat had a better game than I've seen from him in a long time. It was a fairly solid night for him.

Outside of the shootout goal, I thought Sullivan had a particularly poor game last night. Way too many turnovers by Sully, and many of those were in the defensive zone. Overall, I thought Sully might have been the worst forward on the ice last night in terms of sloppy play.

Thought O'Reilly had a good game as well with the exception of allowing the turnover that resulted in the 3-1 very late in the game. Don't know if it was just a lack of awareness of the defense or a lack of effort, but he waited for the puck to come to him as opposed to aggressively receive that pass and continue the rush. It allowed the defense to take the puck away and rush the other direction.

Also agree with you Seth that Suter cannot back off Rick Nash like he did resulting in Vermette's second goal (I think). That said, Crispy was correct at the end- Suter looked like a guy on mission at the end as he kept putting people on their backside. That was great to see.


Last edited by David Singleton: 12-02-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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12-02-2010, 08:09 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Re-watching the game now as I wind down to go to sleep, but before I do...

What a performance by Nick Spaling tonight busting his tail to draw two penalties while shorthanded to kill off Columbus PP's! I absolutely love the kid!
The limited minutes I watched of Nick in junior he had some offensive talent also, but the guy has become a defensive specialist of late. He is really adept on the penalty kill. I do think he could secure a spot as a shutdown and PK specialist alone, but if he could get his scoring touch back and get some points, that would be huge. I do think he has been a big part of the turnaround on the Pred PK this year.

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12-02-2010, 08:26 AM
  #113
triggrman
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When Legwand comes back, who sits? You can't sit Spaling now, he's way to valuable on the pk.

I say sit Ward...


Last edited by triggrman: 12-02-2010 at 08:28 AM. Reason: Sorry David didn't mean to steal your question.
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12-02-2010, 08:35 AM
  #114
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
When Legwand comes back, who sits? You can't sit Spaling now, he's way to valuable on the pk.

I say sit Ward...
That'd be my first choice.

However, I wouldn't hesitate to sit Erat if needed (either due to injury or performance) for a game or two.

What I don't want to see is a Smithson-Legwand-Ward shutdown line that essentially reduces the effectiveness of a scoring line by moving Tootoo up while also killing a pretty dominating energy line desperately needed by this team.

My fear is that's what's going to happen.

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12-02-2010, 09:35 AM
  #115
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
Thought O'Reilly had a good game as well with the exception of allowing the turnover that resulted in the 3-1 very late in the game. Don't know if it was just a lack of awareness of the defense or a lack of effort, but he waited for the puck to come to him as opposed to aggressively receive that pass and continue the rush. It allowed the defense to take the puck away and rush the other direction.

Also agree with you Seth that Suter cannot back off Rick Nash like he did resulting in Vermette's second goal (I think). That said, Crispy was correct at the end- Suter looked like a guy on mission at the end as he kept putting people on their backside. That was great to see.
While O'Reilly was the one that looked like a goat there on the play, the 3 on 1 was created by a horrible drop pass to O'Reilly that really never dropped and went too far ahead of Cal leading him into a defending player that would have been happy to go head hunting if he reached for the puck. Cal recognized the situation, realized he and the others were trapped, and tried his best to reach in to try to pokecheck the puck had the defender started to carry it.

An ugly play, but thankfully Suter and Rinne were up to the task!

As for Suter on Vermette's second goal, I think that was on Twitter, but the issue was that in our defensive system when you are on the man and he passes away the puck, you do peel off and look to replace the position vacated in the box behind that has now assumed man coverage. However, when Suter did that in this instance he just completely let his guard down for a minute and pivoted the wrong way. As a result he turned his back on Nash and gave him a free path to the net. Star players like Rick Nash don't need a second invitation to drive the net and Suter's mental lapse cost him there...

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12-02-2010, 09:43 AM
  #116
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
While O'Reilly was the one that looked like a goat there on the play, the 3 on 1 was created by a horrible drop pass to O'Reilly that really never dropped and went too far ahead of Cal leading him into a defending player that would have been happy to go head hunting if he reached for the puck. Cal recognized the situation, realized he and the others were trapped, and tried his best to reach in to try to pokecheck the puck had the defender started to carry it.

An ugly play, but thankfully Suter and Rinne were up to the task!

As for Suter on Vermette's second goal, I think that was on Twitter, but the issue was that in our defensive system when you are on the man and he passes away the puck, you do peel off and look to replace the position vacated in the box behind that has now assumed man coverage. However, when Suter did that in this instance he just completely let his guard down for a minute and pivoted the wrong way. As a result he turned his back on Nash and gave him a free path to the net. Star players like Rick Nash don't need a second invitation to drive the net and Suter's mental lapse cost him there...
Yeah Seth, I was referencing a twitter comment.

Suter and Rinne certainly made excellent plays on that 3-1 as well. Really well-timed slide by Suter and great effort by Rinne on that bouncing puck with the traffic.

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12-02-2010, 10:02 AM
  #117
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Looks like I'm a little late to the "Trotz coaches not to lose" vs. "Trotz gave the Preds the best chance to win" party. Way too many statements to quote and clog the thread, but I'm a little shocked by what a couple of people have said on here. If you want to look at last nights game and who was on the ice when as far as forwards, I think it's pretty clear that Dumont and Horny are either a little injured or sick or both. Dumont with only 10 shifts last night, Horny with 13 to go with only 14 on Tuesday, so even with Trotz's Giant Dog House, there's usually not enough room in there for that many guys. Point being, it looked like Trotz was paying with a little shorter bench due to whatever the physical condition is of a couple of guys, so I'm not too fired up with who was playing---somebody has to go out there.

However, FCM's (Glenn) point about Trotz coaching not to lose isn't so much an opinion as fact. I know you people are watching these games over all of these seasons, right? I can't believe that some of you are not recognizing that Trotz's choices of lines late in games isn't a pattern or a reaction to game situations, it is in fact who Trotz is---play not to lose. Haven't any of you ever heard his comments in the post games over the years or read his quotes (paraphrasing here) that "it was real important we got the point tonight/we needed to make sure to save that one point/we've got to play to guarantee that one point, etc." meaning once the game is tied, he much rather get that one point than ever try and actually win that game outright. Play it even, then take your chances you'll get lucky in OT/SO. Anybody ever hear him say "We really tried to win it late/we wanted to get the full two points and give them zero/it was really important to make this a two point game and NOT go into OT/SO". Anybody? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Now, I know some of you will say "well of course it's important to get that one point"---sure, it's beats getting nothing. But over the years it's obvious (at least to some of us) that not getting scored on by running out defensively minded players far, far outweighs Trotz's inclination to run out offensive minded players.

And for those of you who say, "well, he didn't have last change/he's responding to who the other team plays, etc." Really? Go and look at the line charts. It doesn't matter if it's home or away, Trotz invariably overplays the Smithsons/Wards/Fiddlers/Nichols/etc of this team over anybody that could, you know, score. Look at the line charts of this team and look at the line charts of other teams and although there are obvious matchups from time to time were teams play a little more defensive, you won't find any other team that runs out the "play not to lose crew" as much as the Preds do. Other teams are trying to score and win and not be satisfied with just getting the point. Obviously teams do at some point try to protect that point, but not as a matter of rule to the extent that Trotz does. In the end, Trotz is giving the other point to the opponent by not trying to win it. You can play defense first hockey, but when it comes late in the game Trotz is incapable of trying to win that game (or come from behind, which we haven't talked about).

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12-02-2010, 10:10 AM
  #118
Joe T Choker
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Thought Wilson and SK played awesome tonight, we should see them get more minutes. Wilson as of late is looking like he is piecing together some key things and is looking more and more complete regardless of his ice time. SK also seems to be slowly finding his stride as well.

On Trotz, ill judge him and his decisions as soon as our team is healthy, it will be interesting to see what lines will be made/ who gets the shaft etc. Im hoping he makes the right ones as in Goc, SK, Wilson all getting top 9 minutes consistently if not top 6


FWIW, Santorelli scored again tonight, for his 7th goal of the season
10-13-0 vs 11-8-5

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12-02-2010, 10:19 AM
  #119
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I'm one of the "Trotz plays not to lose" people. It just doesn't bother me so much after a win. I hating giving Columbus a point, but we need points right now to make up for the losing streak earlier. He certainly seems to be looking for overtime when it's late in a tie game. Even if we have a one goal lead it seems he rolls out what Partisan called the "play not to lose crew" more than is necessary.

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12-02-2010, 10:23 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
He gave them the best opportunity to get one point, not to win. You don't give points away to division rivals, especially as poorly as we've played lately. At some point we have to be able to go for it. Arniel like you said had Nash out there going for it and we counter with Smithson, Ward and Tootoo? That's giving us the best chance to win?
IF we had a healthy Leggy I might agree, but if we are trying to win right now, when they roll their #1 line, it seems prudent to roll Smitty's, then come back with either Cal or Goc. You can't seriously suggest rolling JP/Horny and whomever as C is a good idea against most #1s, can you? Even when they play their best D, both JP and Horny are below-avg skaters; rolling them against ANY #1 line isn't playing to win, that's gambling, at best.

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12-02-2010, 10:25 AM
  #121
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Now, on to last nights game and a couple of quick points.

See what Wilson can do with a little more talent around him and apparently the "go" signal from the coaching staff? It's just not the line mates, but I get the sense that he's been given a little more leash to be the player he can be--a little more confident, a little more physical.

Peks obviously did a good job of keeping the Preds in the game through that first period. I saw a stat last night that surprised me...maybe somebody can confirm. It said that from the 2008-09 season, Peks is leading the NHL in SO's. Is that really true over these two and a quarter seasons?

I usually don't feel like hammering this guy, but it seemed like Erat made four or five ridiculous passes to nobody----and I mean as in nobody within 25-30 feet. Really much worse than his typical self. Maybe guys were tripped up/held up/whatever out of camera range that I couldn't see and they couldn't get to the spot, but it was like Erat wasn't even aware of his or other players positions on the ice. Ugly.

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12-02-2010, 10:28 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If memory serves, and I can go back and watch the last 5 as well, what were the lines because I don't believe they were the same ones that were used earlier in the game. I just remember thinking, what the heck.
Sorry, it was late, but that was something that stuck out to me when I was re-watching the game on the big screen as opposed to watching the Jackets broadcast on the laptop earlier. The lines did get juggled for a couple of shifts in the final 5 minutes of regulation. That was due to Tootoo getting caught on the far side of the ice and staying for two shifts. Instead of skipping Kostitsyn's shift, Trotz sent him out there and the lines got off sequence for three shifts until there was a stoppage and Trotz reunited everyone.

That was the third shift of the game that Tootoo stayed for over a minute and it was also his last of the night...

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12-02-2010, 10:54 AM
  #123
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When Legwand comes back, who sits? You can't sit Spaling now, he's way to valuable on the pk.

I say sit Ward...
Smitty or Ward is the obvious choice, right? So, since when has Trotz ever done what seems obvious?

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12-02-2010, 11:13 AM
  #124
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Smitty or Ward is the obvious choice, right? So, since when has Trotz ever done what seems obvious?
Not sure about Ward, but we won't sit Smithson. He's running at 59% face off wins, is a strong forechecker and is one of our best PKers. There is more to this game then just scoring goals. It takes a team of everyone doing their job, Smithson does his better then most in the league.

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12-02-2010, 11:50 AM
  #125
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Ever consider those guys were the freshest on the bench and had had a couple of long shifts in the CBJ end of the rink earlier in the game? Columbus was going for it with Nash, Vermette, etc...Trotz wanted to have fresh guys out there that were going to at least not get scored on.

Having played last night and traveled while your opponent sat at home and scouted you, I don't blame Trotz for insuring we got at least a point as time wore down.

As for OT, we are horrible at 4 on 4 hockey. We got burned on it for Columbus's first goal and I honestly think we stood a better chance of getting the second point in the shootout than in OT.

Bottom line...I disagree.
I think you missed the point. What he was saying and I don't have to speak for him but you say like Trotz that we should play defensively and hang on and he says that we should be agressive and try to win the game in regulation. Far as OT we are horrible on 4 on 4. One of the reason is the combination that Trotz sends out. I've heard many commentators such as Joe Micheletti say that defenseman are the edge in the OT why not change it up and have 3 defense or change up any sequence. I thought Sully passes in regulation were just horrible and gets regular shifts but JP doesn't Why are you a shill for the organization


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