HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Our Penalty Kill...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-30-2010, 03:58 PM
  #26
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDude View Post
So...we have a Selke nominated forward coming back, and it's a good idea to keep him off the PK? Have you guys ever played hockey? There's really not a ton of chemistry that goes into a PK from a forward perspective. You play your part of the ice. If everyone does it well, the PK succeeds. It's not like you're switching back and forth covering different sides of the ice, unless you have the worst PK strategy ever.

Staal is our best defensive forward, of course he's going to be on the PK.
You have never played hockey if you don't think a good deal of chemistry is involved in a thing such as a penalty kill where it's imperative that the 4 men play as one cohesive unit.

I'm not saying Staal shouldn't be a PK'er. I'm saying he shouldn't come back and immediately be put into the middle of what is the best PK in the league. When they take a dip, then put him in, but I'm sort of surprised how many people feel it's a good idea to tinker with what is the best PK in the league right now.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2010, 04:24 PM
  #27
SomeDude
Registered User
 
SomeDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsburghish
Posts: 5,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
You have never played hockey if you don't think a good deal of chemistry is involved in a thing such as a penalty kill where it's imperative that the 4 men play as one cohesive unit.

I'm not saying Staal shouldn't be a PK'er. I'm saying he shouldn't come back and immediately be put into the middle of what is the best PK in the league. When they take a dip, then put him in, but I'm sort of surprised how many people feel it's a good idea to tinker with what is the best PK in the league right now.
Obviously, there is some chemistry involved, but whenever you're replacing someone, say Dupuis (have no clue who would actually get bumped off, just a name), with someone like Staal...who has played on the same PK for years, I don't think you have to worry much about chemistry.

The only thing that they would have to worry about is if Staal has some rust to shake off. I could see keeping him off for his first couple of games back until he's back in the flow, but thinking that Staal would actually hurt our PK? I just don't buy it.

SomeDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2010, 04:31 PM
  #28
gdsmack267
Registered User
 
gdsmack267's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,344
vCash: 500
I say dont let Staal play on the PK that much. Why change something that isnt broke? Plus less pk time will allow Staal to play more 5on5 hockey.

gdsmack267 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2010, 04:43 PM
  #29
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDude View Post
Obviously, there is some chemistry involved, but whenever you're replacing someone, say Dupuis (have no clue who would actually get bumped off, just a name), with someone like Staal...who has played on the same PK for years, I don't think you have to worry much about chemistry.

The only thing that they would have to worry about is if Staal has some rust to shake off. I could see keeping him off for his first couple of games back until he's back in the flow, but thinking that Staal would actually hurt our PK? I just don't buy it.
What do you gain putting Staal on a unit that is already #1, is the question you have to ask. The answer is absolutely nothing. You have 8 guys who are playing great hockey, and until their play drops off, Staal's minutes should be made up elsewhere. There are three things on this team that shouldn't be touched for the foreseeable future: the PK, the 3rd line, and the top 2 defensive pairings.

You leave them go until they falter.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2010, 07:17 PM
  #30
nemesis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDude View Post
So...we have a Selke nominated forward coming back, and it's a good idea to keep him off the PK? Have you guys ever played hockey? There's really not a ton of chemistry that goes into a PK from a forward perspective. You play your part of the ice. If everyone does it well, the PK succeeds. It's not like you're switching back and forth covering different sides of the ice, unless you have the worst PK strategy ever.

Staal is our best defensive forward, of course he's going to be on the PK.

You do know that Datsyuk won the Selke last year right? He was 8th on his team in short handed ice time per game among forwards. If the guy who won the Selke is his teams 8th best option to kill penalties why does the Pens nominee have to be used there?

nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2010, 07:21 PM
  #31
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdsmack267 View Post
I say dont let Staal play on the PK that much. Why change something that isnt broke? Plus less pk time will allow Staal to play more 5on5 hockey.
The only reason to keep Staal off the PK is to get his game timing back. He has not played hockey since May, you don't rush players back like that after missing that much hockey. I would not even put him on the PP, just keep him at 5 on 5 play for 10-12 minutes, then work his minutes up. Someone who has not played hockey since May because of injury is not dominate right away. He needs to work out his rust.

66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2010, 07:46 PM
  #32
nemesis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
The key to the Penalty kill is Michalek. With him in the lineup the Pens have given up a grand total of 3 power play goals in 17 games. One of which was the 5 on 3 goal Stamkos scored. When he was out they gave up 7 power play goals in 9 games.

Their kill rate with him in the lineup is an unreal 95%. Without 84%. Now I'm not sure it's just him being out there that makes it that much better or the fact that the Pens don't have to put Goligoski/lovejoy/engelland out there when he's not playing. At any rate the difference is pretty staggering. So with everyone but Staal healthy the Pens are killing 95% of the penalties they take. Not to mention they've scored 2 short handed goals in those 17 games. In other words other then a 5 on 3 goal given up to the leagues leading goal scored the Pens have broken even when killing penalties with Michalek in the lineup.

How much better can Staal possibly make it? If someone is in the box who normally kills penalties or they are injured or tired then fine put Staal out there. If that's not the case I'd save him for the end of penalties and right after them for some extra offense. I'd also hope that none of our top 4 defensemen, especially Michalek get hurt.


Last edited by nemesis: 12-01-2010 at 08:12 PM.
nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 05:37 AM
  #33
Milliardo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zürich
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
The key to the Penalty kill is Michalek. With him in the lineup the Pens have given up a grand total of 3 power play goals in 17 games. One of which was the 5 on 3 goal Stamkos scored. When he was out they gave up 7 power play goals in 9 games.

Their kill rate with him in the lineup is an unreal 95%. Without 84%. Now I'm not sure it's just him being out there that makes it that much better or the fact that the Pens don't have to put Goligoski/lovejoy/engelland out there when he's not playing. At any rate the difference is pretty staggering. So with everyone but Staal healthy the Pens are killing 95% of the penalties they take. Not to mention they've scored 2 short handed goals in those 17 games. In other words other then a 5 on 3 goal given up to the leagues leading goal scored the Pens have broken even when killing penalties with Michalek in the lineup.

How much better can Staal possibly make it? If someone is in the box who normally kills penalties or they are injured or tired then fine put Staal out there. If that's not the case I'd save him for the end of penalties and right after them for some extra offense. I'd also hope that none of our top 4 defensemen, especially Michalek get hurt.

That's a pretty awesome stat, wow!

Milliardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 08:08 AM
  #34
gopens66
Finally
 
gopens66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Altoona,Pa
Country: United States
Posts: 2,286
vCash: 500
Staal is just coming back from an injury. No, make that two injuries. Yes, he's been skating, but are his legs in game shape? That usually doesn't happen till you start playing games every other night. For this reason alone I would ease him back into the PK role. You can't be a step behind killing penalties.
Also, if his hand is anything less than 100% when he returns, should he be out there blocking shots on the PK?

I say, give him a week or two of solid game time, and time on the PP, if the PK is still clipping along at 90%, why mess with it. If he's not needed on the PK, right afterward you can counter with Sid's line or Malkin-Staal. At this time most teams' top players will be on the bench having just failed at their PP attempt. Then we hit their 2nd/3rd lines with our 1st/2nd.

Just my 2 cents.

gopens66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 08:17 AM
  #35
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,947
vCash: 500
The whole "Stawl is our best PK'er" thing is a myth. Being a good PK'er isn't like some crazy god-given talent that was bestowed upon you. Guys like Matt Cooke and Pascal Dupuis are definitely our best ones and they don't have great hands or offensive instincts. I would be fine keeping Staal off the PK until he starts to really get his legs under him.

cassius is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 08:19 AM
  #36
SUBdrewgANS
born into trouble
 
SUBdrewgANS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,530
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SUBdrewgANS
its not even a penalty kill anymore... it's a penalty MURDER

SUBdrewgANS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 10:52 AM
  #37
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
The key to the Penalty kill is Michalek. With him in the lineup the Pens have given up a grand total of 3 power play goals in 17 games. One of which was the 5 on 3 goal Stamkos scored. When he was out they gave up 7 power play goals in 9 games.

Their kill rate with him in the lineup is an unreal 95%. Without 84%. Now I'm not sure it's just him being out there that makes it that much better or the fact that the Pens don't have to put Goligoski/lovejoy/engelland out there when he's not playing. At any rate the difference is pretty staggering. So with everyone but Staal healthy the Pens are killing 95% of the penalties they take. Not to mention they've scored 2 short handed goals in those 17 games. In other words other then a 5 on 3 goal given up to the leagues leading goal scored the Pens have broken even when killing penalties with Michalek in the lineup.

How much better can Staal possibly make it? If someone is in the box who normally kills penalties or they are injured or tired then fine put Staal out there. If that's not the case I'd save him for the end of penalties and right after them for some extra offense. I'd also hope that none of our top 4 defensemen, especially Michalek get hurt.
Michalek is a big piece of the success. I won't ever doubt that. But in the games we were missing Michalek...we were also missing Orpik who plays the top unit with Michalek.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 03:49 PM
  #38
gopens66
Finally
 
gopens66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Altoona,Pa
Country: United States
Posts: 2,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBdrewgANS View Post
its not even a penalty kill anymore... it's a penalty MURDER
Quoted for truth and posterity's sake!

Penalty Slay?

gopens66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2010, 04:01 PM
  #39
nemesis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Michalek is a big piece of the success. I won't ever doubt that. But in the games we were missing Michalek...we were also missing Orpik who plays the top unit with Michalek.
True, they were both out for 5 games at the same time and the pens gave up 1 power play goal in each of those games (22 chances). A success rate of 77%

In the 4 games Orpik played and Michalek didn't they gave up 2 goals in 22 chances. Kill rate of 90.1%

The numbers, in a limited sample size, show that the PK is awful without both of them. Darn good with one of them. And awesome with both.

nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.