HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Leafs after JVR per Timmy P

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-03-2010, 08:30 AM
  #26
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not sure who the Leafs would possibly offer for JVR (or anyone else for that matter). I don't want to trade JVR, but if there was an attractive deal, I might do it. I agree with DUHockey, I don't see JVR becoming a superstar in this league. He will be a good player, but I doubt he ever becomes a PPG guy more than maybe a season.
BUT, he provides some security and depth at a position where the organization is weakest.....ON THE WING. You do not deplete from a position of weakness. JvR is about the potential of keeping a guy with an upside on the cheap, you do not get rid of this unless you have something else in the pipeline to develop, which this organization does not have.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:30 AM
  #27
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I can tell you with certainty that the following players would not be offered:
Kadri, Kessel, Kulemin, Schenn, Phaneuf, Gustavsson.

those guys go nowhere.

and really, unless the Flyers want defense or goaltending, no deal is to be made.
you leaf fans are funny. so jvr wouldnt get you kadri or kulemin? really! no monster either? wow. I think they would move dion and the wanderers rather quickly for a 1 on 1 trade for jvr to get out of that contract

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:33 AM
  #28
glucker
Registered User
 
glucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Actually, I don't believe this. The only people I've ever seen support the "Carter for Kaberle" rumor are TML fans. Can you back that up somehow, e.g. with statements by Homer praising Kaberle?
all the major outlets had it at the time. Remember that Carter was not playing well when that offer was made, his value wasn't very high. It's only after that deadline that his play really picked up.

glucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:33 AM
  #29
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
BUT, he provides some security and depth at a position where the organization is weakest.....ON THE WING. You do not deplete from a position of weakness. JvR is about the potential of keeping a guy with an upside on the cheap, you do not get rid of this unless you have something else in the pipeline to develop, which this organization does not have.
if a move is to be made that helps your team now and int he future, sure you do. Doesnt matter if it is a weakness. If someone offers you a better player you make the deal. Then address your needs elsewhere by moving other parts.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:36 AM
  #30
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Actually, I don't believe this. The only people I've ever seen support the "Carter for Kaberle" rumor are TML fans. Can you back that up somehow, e.g. with statements by Homer praising Kaberle?
you dont have to believe it. that us your right. i love these comments. Yeah every player he likes he always makes statements about how much he likes said player.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:37 AM
  #31
glucker
Registered User
 
glucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
you leaf fans are funny. so jvr wouldnt get you kadri or kulemin? really! no monster either? wow. I think they would move dion and the wanderers rather quickly for a 1 on 1 trade for jvr to get out of that contract
Gustavsson has been amazing(last night being the exception), and Kulemin has been the best Leaf forward all season long- on pace for 30/50 while being great defensively. Kadri was recently drafted and looks great- even if he needs to strengthen up, and Phaneuf is our captain. JVR won't get you any of those guys, they make up the main pieces of the Leafs' core, and won't be available for anything short of a steal by the Leafs, which JVR is not.

glucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:38 AM
  #32
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
if a move is to be made that helps your team now and int he future, sure you do. Doesnt matter if it is a weakness. If someone offers you a better player you make the deal. Then address your needs elsewhere by moving other parts.
So you move Zherdev and his one year, $2mill deal and not JvR's RFA status $1.7mill contract.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:39 AM
  #33
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,701
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
BUT, he provides some security and depth at a position where the organization is weakest.....ON THE WING. You do not deplete from a position of weakness. JvR is about the potential of keeping a guy with an upside on the cheap, you do not get rid of this unless you have something else in the pipeline to develop, which this organization does not have.
That's why I said only if it was an attractive offer and also that I didn't even want to trade him. I wouldn't trade JVR for a fourth round pick or some fourth line schlub or something like that, but if they offer up something like Kadri or Kessel and a bunch of first round picks (which they would never do) I would take it.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:39 AM
  #34
glucker
Registered User
 
glucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
you dont have to believe it. that us your right. i love these comments. Yeah every player he likes he always makes statements about how much he likes said player.
It's almost as if GM's aren't allowed to publicly express an interest in players on another team

glucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:41 AM
  #35
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,701
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
So you move Zherdev and his one year, $2mill deal and not JvR's RFA status $1.7mill contract.
The difference is that with JVR there could be a good return (again, I am not saying let's trade JVR, but he could fetch more than Zherdev). There is very little I think the Flyers would get back from Zherdev.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:42 AM
  #36
chaosof99*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 16,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
all the major outlets had it at the time. Remember that Carter was not playing well when that offer was made, his value wasn't very high. It's only after that deadline that his play really picked up.
Not trying to be rude, but a rumor doesn't become more true if more people repeat it.

The point is that there is no reason the Flyers would want Kaberle, nor is there a reason to proclaim "Holmgren <3 Kaberle" like NWO did. In fact, even if that is true, I don't see why Holmgren would trade away assets for a player the team has no space for and who is a free agent next summer.

That is unless, one wants to support his or her preconceived opinion that Holmgren is a moron with speculative arguments (read: ********), and unfortunately I can't say that NWO wouldn't do that.

Actually it is my opinion that Holmgren has stepped back from mid-season trades a bit, taking last season as evidence for that, and there is nothing to suggest that Holmgren still has interest in Kaberle, even if he did have it in the past.


Last edited by chaosof99*: 12-03-2010 at 08:52 AM.
chaosof99* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:42 AM
  #37
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
So you move Zherdev and his one year, $2mill deal and not JvR's RFA status $1.7mill contract.
Your missing or donít understand what I am saying. Zherdev has little trade value.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:43 AM
  #38
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Not trying to be rude, but a rumor doesn't become more true if more people repeat it.

The point is that there is no reason the Flyers would want Kaberle, nor is there a reason to proclaim "Holmgren <3 Kaberle" like NWO did. In fact, even if that is true, I don't see why Holmgren would trade away assets for a player the team has no space for and who is a free agent next summer.

That is unless, one wants to support his or her preconceived opinion that Holmgren is a moron with speculative arguments, and unfortunately I can't say that NWO wouldn't do that.

Actually it is my opinion that Holmgren has stepped back from mid-season trades a bit, taking last season as evidence for that.
Homer is a moron. But not that big of a moron.

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:47 AM
  #39
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u2 View Post
Well actually 2 firsts from the leafs?? the way they are playing it could very well BE 2 first picks over all
Yeah, the Leafs' 2012 and 2013 picks look to be low lottery picks, esp. after they finish dead last and Boston takes their pick again next spring....

However, Burke calling Homer about JVR is just another Burkian delusion, like 'Phil Kessel is a franchise player' and 'we're going to get Gerber to try and make the playoffs so we can draft Kadri instead of Tavares.'

Toronto needs to fire Burke and Wilson right away, trade Kaberle and everyone else anyone will take for picks, then cry, cry, cry at the draft next year.....

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:49 AM
  #40
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Gustavsson has been amazing(last night being the exception), and Kulemin has been the best Leaf forward all season long- on pace for 30/50 while being great defensively. Kadri was recently drafted and looks great- even if he needs to strengthen up, and Phaneuf is our captain. JVR won't get you any of those guys, they make up the main pieces of the Leafs' core, and won't be available for anything short of a steal by the Leafs, which JVR is not.
The leafs have such a glut of great goalie prospects though right? They wont be contending for several years. Saying kulemin has been the best leaf isnít saying much. Poni was good as leaf and a failure elsewhere. JVR was recently drafted and has just started his 2nd nhl season. What has kadri done? He cant even make a terrible leafs team out of camp. So what he is the captain, he is overpaid and not a great player, a good one not great. Your delusional my friend. Well JVR would be a main piece of the their core as well. No Gm is their right mind would refuse kadri, kulemin, or gusto for jvr. Dion you cnamake an argument maybe gusto as well.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:50 AM
  #41
chaosof99*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 16,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Yeah, the Leafs' 2012 and 2013 picks look to be low lottery picks, esp. after they finish dead last and Boston takes their pick again next spring....

However, Burke calling Homer about JVR is just another Burkian delusion, like 'Phil Kessel is a franchise player' and 'we're going to get Gerber to try and make the playoffs so we can draft Kadri instead of Tavares.'
Actually, Gerber was horrendous at the time when they picked up him. Why they'd pick him up at all is beyond me though.

chaosof99* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:52 AM
  #42
PhillyFlying
Registered User
 
PhillyFlying's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,172
vCash: 500
why would we trade jvr to the leafs? i thought they were only interested in jeff carter and bad-decent prospects.

PhillyFlying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 08:54 AM
  #43
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
why would we trade jvr to the leafs? i thought they were only interested in jeff carter and bad-decent prospects.
Brilliant.

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:08 AM
  #44
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Actually, Gerber was horrendous at the time when they picked up him. Why they'd pick him up at all is beyond me though.
I can't remember all the details now, but I do remember when the Leafs made the effort to get Burke in mid-season, instead of waiting, that I was actually worried that he was going to do the smart thing and tank completely - accumulating draft picks and getting Tavares or Hedman. Then he made a couple deals to try and make a futile run at the playoffs.

What was even funnier was in the pre-draft time when Burke was going on and on in the media about trading for the rights to draft Tavares - the Isles just laughed at him - when he HAD him all sewn up and blew it. Not only that, they also missed out on Brayden Schenn too, and got stuck with Kadri.

You can't build your future offense completely around a couple of waterbugs who weight 160 pounds each. You can have them in your mix, but not as your best players...

Burke's next firing offense was not so much acquiring Kessel from Boston, but overpaying from a position of strength.

Chiarelli couldn't sign Kessel, who was recovering from surgery. And even if he signed him, he would've been way over the cap, so something had to give.

Instead of waiting until Kessel was about to return, then lowballing, Burke WAY overpaid for Kessel. A first and second was bad enough, but next year's lottery pick is going to kill them.

The way Taylor Hall tore them up last night, I wouldn't be surprised if Burke gets fired when Tyler Seguin scored another couple tomorrow night.....

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:13 AM
  #45
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's why I said only if it was an attractive offer and also that I didn't even want to trade him. I wouldn't trade JVR for a fourth round pick or some fourth line schlub or something like that, but if they offer up something like Kadri or Kessel and a bunch of first round picks (which they would never do) I would take it.
Yeah, I know. After writing that I noticed my answer was intended to agree with what you said but it came across the opposite. Since I have been sanctioned for insinuating that a player on the roster may have or may not have slept with another players wife I have been accused of libel and appropriately docked some priviledges.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:20 AM
  #46
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The difference is that with JVR there could be a good return (again, I am not saying let's trade JVR, but he could fetch more than Zherdev). There is very little I think the Flyers would get back from Zherdev.
IMO you need to keep JvR, similar to Bobby Ryan when guys were trying to get him away from Anaheim or Kesler from Vancouver. At some point the team needs to be patient, this is a 6'3", 210lbs kid who is still continuing to learn the NHL game at the agae of 21. His professional path is similar to Carter and Richards and somewhat to Giroux in regards to playing time and patience in developing both Giroux and JvR.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:21 AM
  #47
glucker
Registered User
 
glucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
The leafs have such a glut of great goalie prospects though right? They wont be contending for several years. Saying kulemin has been the best leaf isnít saying much. Poni was good as leaf and a failure elsewhere. JVR was recently drafted and has just started his 2nd nhl season. What has kadri done? He cant even make a terrible leafs team out of camp. So what he is the captain, he is overpaid and not a great player, a good one not great. Your delusional my friend. Well JVR would be a main piece of the their core as well. No Gm is their right mind would refuse kadri, kulemin, or gusto for jvr. Dion you cnamake an argument maybe gusto as well.
The Leafs have a lot of goalie prospects, yes, good ones, to... ones that Philly tried to obtain for the most part. But Gustavsson is the top of the class right now, our current and future #1. He's not getting traded for a struggling young forward.

Poni had good stats as a Leaf, but not many Leafs fans liked him, because his play was often very lacklustre. Very little passion to his game. If he had some emotion, he'd be a much better player. Kulemin on the other hand is all heart, and has shown great skills. And unlike Poni, he's not a perimeter player, he'll get down and dirty. Philly fans are saying JVR will be a 30/30 guy? Kulemin's currently going for 30/20... and he's getting better every game.

Kadri and Kessel are guys the Leafs are building around, Kadri being Kessel's playmaker. Burke specifically wanted him in the draft, and refused to trade the pick away to move up for Schenn, another player that he wanted. Kadri had a bad camp, but then went ppg in the AHL to earn his call-up. Kadri's got amazing on-ice vision, and massive potential, it's not worth the risk trading him for JVR.

As for Phaneuf, our record with him and without him speaks for itself. He's the heart and soul of this team, and even if his offensive stats aren't great, he's been the driving force for whatever success the Leafs have had these last two seasons. The massive failures the Leafs have shown have only come up while he wasn't around.


I'm not saying these players are all going to be better than JVR, I'm just saying they're important to the Leafs, and JVR isn't valuable enough to warrant trading any of them.

glucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:23 AM
  #48
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I can't remember all the details now, but I do remember when the Leafs made the effort to get Burke in mid-season, instead of waiting, that I was actually worried that he was going to do the smart thing and tank completely - accumulating draft picks and getting Tavares or Hedman. Then he made a couple deals to try and make a futile run at the playoffs.

What was even funnier was in the pre-draft time when Burke was going on and on in the media about trading for the rights to draft Tavares - the Isles just laughed at him - when he HAD him all sewn up and blew it. Not only that, they also missed out on Brayden Schenn too, and got stuck with Kadri.

You can't build your future offense completely around a couple of waterbugs who weight 160 pounds each. You can have them in your mix, but not as your best players...

Burke's next firing offense was not so much acquiring Kessel from Boston, but overpaying from a position of strength.

Chiarelli couldn't sign Kessel, who was recovering from surgery. And even if he signed him, he would've been way over the cap, so something had to give.

Instead of waiting until Kessel was about to return, then lowballing, Burke WAY overpaid for Kessel. A first and second was bad enough, but next year's lottery pick is going to kill them.

The way Taylor Hall tore them up last night, I wouldn't be surprised if Burke gets fired when Tyler Seguin scored another couple tomorrow night.....
I don't mean to hijack the thread but...I find it amusing how you condemn Burke for overpaying for stuff (aka ignoring the "result" and rather looking at the HOW) and for his timing of things, but ignore when Homer does it. Those are the same issues myself and others have with Homer.

But more on topic...I think Burke is very similar to Homer actually. He clearly overvalued his team when trading those picks for Kessel. He never thought they'd still be this bad.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:33 AM
  #49
Flyskippy
Registered User
 
Flyskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Audubon, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I think we just replicated the discussion between Brian and Paul


Is this the same glucker from HB? If so, good to "see" you here.

Unless Philly is getting picks (and I don't know why Burke would trade any away now), I don't see a deal happening.

Flyskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2010, 09:34 AM
  #50
glucker
Registered User
 
glucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I don't mean to hijack the thread but...I find it amusing how you condemn Burke for overpaying for stuff (aka ignoring the "result" and rather looking at the HOW) and for his timing of things, but ignore when Homer does it. Those are the same issues myself and others have with Homer.

But more on topic...I think Burke is very similar to Homer actually. He clearly overvalued his team when trading those picks for Kessel. He never thought they'd still be this bad.
Last year, Burke put too much faith in the goaltending, and it burned him but he improved it, this year, he put too much faith in his young centers. Both years, he's put far to much faith in Wilson

glucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.