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Leafs after JVR per Timmy P

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Old
12-03-2010, 11:50 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
At one part of the discussion you point out that a move to help the team now and in the future. The player who helps now and in the future is JvR, so moving him now as I pointed out is weakening teh only chip you have on the and your preference would be to get an unknown draft pick, the picks would be 2012 and 2013, due to the uncertainty of where these picks will be you would have to wait until 2012 to actually get something back.

The point is JvR is important to this team now and next year, so moving him for draft picks is flat out a dufus move considering this team is set to win now. Considering that the Laffs have nothing to be able to return for similar salary it would be considered a salary dump, in which case dump Zherdev who's future is much more uncertain.
I was responding to your post. I didn’t say go out and trade him. I said if a move is there you make if it helps your team more, regardless if the wing is weakness. Not advocating trading anyone. So there is no other player they can aquire who can help now and in the futrure as good as JVR is what your syaing no? Unlike you I dotn have tunnel vision and say any player is off limits because it is an organizational weakness. The goal is to win the cup this year is it not? Yes I absolutely take those 2 1st if that deal was possible.

No JVR really isnt that important and is not the diff in them winning or losing the cup. Yeah moving him for picks is a bad move. Not 2 1sdt rd picks where one has the potential to be #1 overall next year and still top10 at worst the following year. Why you keep talking about a salary dump is beyond me

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12-03-2010, 11:56 AM
  #77
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uhh toronto doesn't have any draft picks. So no deal

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12-03-2010, 12:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
uhh toronto doesn't have any draft picks. So no deal
Why would we want picks for JVR?

A first would not have his potential, nor would it be NHL ready soon, nor would it likely be as good as JVR is.

JVR might not be the best 2nd overall selection ever, but he's got a ton of potential and he's already accomplished a lot.

I don't think he should be taken for granted.

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12-03-2010, 12:34 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
I was responding to your post. I didn’t say go out and trade him. I said if a move is there you make if it helps your team more, regardless if the wing is weakness. Not advocating trading anyone. So there is no other player they can aquire who can help now and in the futrure as good as JVR is what your syaing no? Unlike you I dotn have tunnel vision and say any player is off limits because it is an organizational weakness. The goal is to win the cup this year is it not? Yes I absolutely take those 2 1st if that deal was possible.

No JVR really isnt that important and is not the diff in them winning or losing the cup. Yeah moving him for picks is a bad move. Not 2 1sdt rd picks where one has the potential to be #1 overall next year and still top10 at worst the following year. Why you keep talking about a salary dump is beyond me
Moot point either way in regards to value because he is not going anywhere at this point.

There is a firesale in NJ though, I would move two for one in equal salary....Langenbrunner for Zherdev and Powe.

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12-03-2010, 12:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Moot point either way in regards to value because he is not going anywhere at this point.

There is a firesale in NJ though, I would move two for one in equal salary....Langenbrunner for Zherdev and Powe.
Langenbrunner isn't like some awesome scorer. Does he even have more points than Zherdev? He'd also get less time in Philly than he does in NJ.

So why? And giving up Powe on top of that?

Nah.

Walker + midrange prospect for Langenbrunner at the deadline would make me happy though.

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12-03-2010, 12:54 PM
  #81
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Walker + midrange prospect for Langenbrunner at the deadline would make me happy though.
Ok, now you just sound like a Leafs fan.

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12-03-2010, 12:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Ok, now you just sound like a Leafs fan.
I'm trying to assimilate into their culture as best I can for a new article I'm working on entitled The Optimistic Life of the Modern Masochist.

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12-03-2010, 01:06 PM
  #83
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I'm trying to assimilate into their culture as best I can for a new article I'm working on entitled The Optimistic Life of the Modern Masochist.
Ah, know thine enemies. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Don't stick your **** into a wet toaster.

Gotcha.

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12-03-2010, 01:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Langenbrunner isn't like some awesome scorer. Does he even have more points than Zherdev? He'd also get less time in Philly than he does in NJ.

So why? And giving up Powe on top of that?

Nah.

Walker + midrange prospect for Langenbrunner at the deadline would make me happy though.
I think they are equal in points, around 10pts, but Langenbrunner is a better fit on a wing with Carter at center which is where I think he will eventually end up under Laviolette.

Move Giroux back to wing(hate the thought, but it may be necessary with Carter at this point) or Richards to wing and see what happens. For this to happen it means moving salary and players the Devils can use at this point under the cap space. Two serviceable players for one is something that makes sense for the Devils and the Flyers get back a guy with NHL playoff/Stanley Cup experience.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Richards
Nodl-Carter-Langenbrunner
Carcillo-Betts-Shelley

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12-03-2010, 01:36 PM
  #85
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There is no point in arguing a deal with NJ. I HIGHLY doubt that they trade with the Flyers.

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12-03-2010, 01:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
There is no point in arguing a deal with NJ. I HIGHLY doubt that they trade with the Flyers.
I also thought Lou would never sign a Russian high priced player to a multi-year deal either.

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12-03-2010, 01:53 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I also thought Lou would never sign a Russian high priced player to a multi-year deal either.
History isn't in your favor. The Flyers have made all of two trades with NJ:

1) 27-Sep-84: futures from the New Jersey Devils for Sam St.Laurent

2) 11-Mar-86: Glenn "Chico" Resch from the New Jersey Devils for a 1986 3rd Rounder (Marc Laniel)

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12-03-2010, 01:57 PM
  #88
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To Philly: Kovalchuk

To NJ: Walker

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12-03-2010, 01:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Why would we want picks for JVR?

A first would not have his potential, nor would it be NHL ready soon, nor would it likely be as good as JVR is.

JVR might not be the best 2nd overall selection ever, but he's got a ton of potential and he's already accomplished a lot.

I don't think he should be taken for granted.
Plenty of players have potential though cliff, every team can say that about their top picks. So nothing new there. It is up to him to live up to it.

what has he accomplished that you would consider a lot? Who takes hom for granted?

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12-03-2010, 02:04 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Moot point either way in regards to value because he is not going anywhere at this point.

There is a firesale in NJ though, I would move two for one in equal salary....Langenbrunner for Zherdev and Powe.
Langenbrunner makes $2.8 and Zherdev makes $2. Just because you added Powe, doesn't balance salary at all. Powe makes almost the minimum as is, so you STILL have to REPLACE POWE.

Why do so many posters not get this simple concept? Trading Zherdev for 35 year old Langenbrunner costs us almost a mill on the cap and we get a 35 year old? What a waste.

Your logic is flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Langenbrunner isn't like some awesome scorer. Does he even have more points than Zherdev? He'd also get less time in Philly than he does in NJ.

So why? And giving up Powe on top of that?

Nah.

Walker + midrange prospect for Langenbrunner at the deadline would make me happy though.
Walker for Langenbrunner would be nice, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I think they are equal in points, around 10pts, but Langenbrunner is a better fit on a wing with Carter at center which is where I think he will eventually end up under Laviolette.

Move Giroux back to wing(hate the thought, but it may be necessary with Carter at this point) or Richards to wing and see what happens. For this to happen it means moving salary and players the Devils can use at this point under the cap space. Two serviceable players for one is something that makes sense for the Devils and the Flyers get back a guy with NHL playoff/Stanley Cup experience.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Richards
Nodl-Carter-Langenbrunner
Carcillo-Betts-Shelley
Langenbrunner is a better fit on the wing, so you are willing to get older and (IMO) less talented, while ALSO losing cap space? I am SO GLAD you are not the GM of this team. You make Homer look like the best GM in the world, lol.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I also thought Lou would never sign a Russian high priced player to a multi-year deal either.
Completely irrelevant. Trading for a superstar winger from Atlanta and helping a Division rival (us) are two different things (even though it's what ended up happening, NJ is sucking with Kovalchuk so we benefit, but this was not intended to happen at all, Lou was trying to help his team).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
History isn't in your favor. The Flyers have made all of two trades with NJ:

1) 27-Sep-84: futures from the New Jersey Devils for Sam St.Laurent

2) 11-Mar-86: Glenn "Chico" Resch from the New Jersey Devils for a 1986 3rd Rounder (Marc Laniel)
Wow, I didnt even realize the number of trades was that low.

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12-03-2010, 02:16 PM
  #91
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Langenbrunner makes $2.8 and Zherdev makes $2. Just because you added Powe, doesn't balance salary at all. Powe makes almost the minimum as is, so you STILL have to REPLACE POWE.
Wrong, trading Powe and Zherdev is @equal within $75,000, Carcillo is back and Nodl has taken over top 9 duties. This is totally false.

Quote:
Why do so many posters not get this simple concept? Trading Zherdev for 35 year old Langenbrunner costs us almost a mill on the cap and we get a 35 year old? What a waste.

Your logic is flawed.
Zherdev is a UFA, Langenbrunner is a UFA, both contracts expire at end of season. Powe is a RFA, NJ could resign him cheap. Not that any of this matters because NJ would never give a player like Langenbrunner to Philly.




Quote:
Langenbrunner is a better fit on the wing, so you are willing to get older and (IMO) less talented, while ALSO losing cap space? I am SO GLAD you are not the GM of this team. You make Homer look like the best GM in the world, lol.
WTF do you not get? It is about the sum of the parts, it is about the chemistry. It is about getting a guy who has the experience to maybe win you a game 6 in the SCF's. This is about getting the better player in the deal to fit what Laviolette wants and the players who are currently on the roster.

Flank Carter with Nodl and Langenbrunner and you have the two players who could supplant the Hartnell-Lupul pairing when Carter had his best season. Losing Zherdev and Powe for Langenbrunner would solidify a team to make a serious run at the Cup moreso than with Zherdev and Powe.

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12-03-2010, 02:18 PM
  #92
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I'm gonna have to agree with CP on this one.

For this team (and most teams, actually) Langenbrunner > Zherdev.

Again, this conversation is retarded because it is never going to happen.

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12-03-2010, 02:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Toronto would be lucky to get JVR for Kadri.

All your posts are coming across to me as Toronto expects to get real value without actually sending back any value. Well guess what, that is not going to happen.
Agreed, I wouldn't trade JVR for Kadri or Kulemin. Not interested.

I'd rather watch Kadri's failure to develop into a first line centre destroy the Leaf franchise.....

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12-03-2010, 02:26 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
To Philly: Kovalchuk

To NJ: Walker
Thats the best right there.

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12-03-2010, 02:28 PM
  #95
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The Flyers will not make a trade with the Devils. Maybe they're do, but the Flyers and Devils have not hooked up for a trade since 1986, and that was the second of two trades the two teams have made since the Devils moved to New Jersey. Both of them have involved backup goalies, and the last trade the Flyers make with the Colorado Rockies was Phil Myre for cash, so that's another backup goalie. Unless Brodeur will be out longer and they want Boucher, nothing's happening.

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12-03-2010, 02:46 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The Flyers will not make a trade with the Devils. Maybe they're do, but the Flyers and Devils have not hooked up for a trade since 1986, and that was the second of two trades the two teams have made since the Devils moved to New Jersey. Both of them have involved backup goalies, and the last trade the Flyers make with the Colorado Rockies was Phil Myre for cash, so that's another backup goalie. Unless Brodeur will be out longer and they want Boucher, nothing's happening.
Boucher, zherdev, 1st, rights to Ruzicka, Keith Primeau, and Alex Drozdetsky for Broduer. Dotn be shocked when it happens.

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12-03-2010, 03:28 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Why would we want picks for JVR?

A first would not have his potential, nor would it be NHL ready soon, nor would it likely be as good as JVR is.

JVR might not be the best 2nd overall selection ever, but he's got a ton of potential and he's already accomplished a lot.

I don't think he should be taken for granted.
Becuase they have no one that the flyers want, and toronto are not giving up anything decent. The only option for a trade would be draft picks, and they don't have any to give up. Would you really turn your nose up at 2 first rounders from toronto for JVR? Both of which are most likely to be top 10 picks, and gives us another 1.6 mil in cap space for a deadline deal?

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12-03-2010, 05:18 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Becuase they have no one that the flyers want, and toronto are not giving up anything decent. The only option for a trade would be draft picks, and they don't have any to give up. Would you really turn your nose up at 2 first rounders from toronto for JVR? Both of which are most likely to be top 10 picks, and gives us another 1.6 mil in cap space for a deadline deal?
Here's what I don't understand about people on this board. Everyone overvalues picks SO MUCH. Yes, they can help you build your team, but there are simply no guarantees that the kid you draft (even at #1 or #2) will ever make any impact, not to mention that there is also no guarantee of the pick being a lottery pick...obviously there is a good chance, but it is not written in stone. Here you are saying trade JVR for picks. JVR was a top 2 pick who you would unload for two picks. JVR is only 21 years old and is already in the NHL and playing fairly well. You trade for those two picks and Maybe in 5 years you have a player of that caliber. MAYBE. Or you could get two more JVRs who you would trade away. Or you could get Sidney Crosby. The point is, the Flyers already have JVR. He will be a solid 60 point guy for a long time in this league with potential for more. Trading him for picks would be incredibly foolish. I have said this so many times on this board and no one seems to agree, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

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12-03-2010, 05:50 PM
  #99
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My brain hurts because of the stupidity of Burke... He believing he will get him is delusional.

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12-03-2010, 08:53 PM
  #100
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Kadri? No thanks. I know Leafs fans think he's the NHL's next superstar, but he's a long, long way from it.
Kadri is worthless, He's being pumped up by the Toronto media for reasons unrelated to hockey.

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