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Blow. It. Up.

View Poll Results: Blow it up?
Yes 68 93.15%
Yes 34 46.58%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-04-2010, 03:46 PM
  #51
msm29
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
? FOR Sabre fans?

What exactly has Patrick Kaleta contributed to the 40 year history of this franchise?
What exactly has anybody on this team contributed to the 40 year history of the franchise (other than Miller)? Not a one of these guys is going to go down as a Sabres' great.

Dunno you hate Kaleta so much, but it's way off base.

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Old
11-04-2010, 05:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
? FOR Sabre fans?

What exactly has Patrick Kaleta contributed to the 40 year history of this franchise?
Don't question his contibutions to this franchise in 20 years he's probably going to be in a wheelchair....

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Old
12-01-2010, 08:12 PM
  #53
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Scenarios where they dismantle the team, and go on a five year rebuild are impossible. This franchise needs to make the playoffs to exist. I'll bet Golisano has lost 5-8 million every non playoff season. He will sell to ANYONE at some point.
How prophetic...

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12-01-2010, 10:21 PM
  #54
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How prophetic...

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Old
12-01-2010, 10:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Either change the core (minus Myers) or change the personnel(Sp?) in charge....
Ironically, Myers' struggles is among the top reasons as to why this team is out of a playoff spot (which isn't exactly lofty status in the Eastern Conference).

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12-02-2010, 01:33 AM
  #56
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Since the popular choice is "yes" I went with yes too. But it was a really hard decission between those options.

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12-02-2010, 06:41 AM
  #57
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This team isn't playing that well now.

We aren't the Islanders. That is a terrible team.

I think the parts just need to be moved around a bit but I wouldn't agree with "Blowing it Up".

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Old
12-02-2010, 08:21 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Barnaby36 View Post
We aren't the Islanders. That is a terrible team.
The Islanders are in worse shape NOW, but with Tavares & Co., and likely a lottery pick this season, a proper GM could mold them into a serious team real soon.

Buffalo, on the other hand, is better now, but with this core and these prospects, is bound for perpetual mediocrity.
Unless something changes.

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12-02-2010, 08:43 AM
  #59
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The Islanders are in worse shape NOW, but with Tavares & Co., and likely a lottery pick this season, a proper GM could mold them into a serious team real soon.

Buffalo, on the other hand, is better now, but with this core and these prospects, is bound for perpetual mediocrity.
Unless something changes.
What is wrong with this group of prospects ?? IMO they have some really promising young players with Ennis and Myers already showing top end skill.Enroth has improved in his NHL starts and looks like he could have a future in the NHL. Adam and Kassian are big kids and have showed good offensive potential. The backend is loaded with promising young players like McNabb and Pysyk and still young players like Butler,Sekera,Weber and Myers already making the big squad.

Other notables possibly making the team at some point with Foligno, Gauthier Leduc, Sundher, Schiestel and Brennan.

I think our prospect pool is the least of our worries right now

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Old
12-02-2010, 09:00 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
What is wrong with this group of prospects ?? IMO they have some really promising young players with Ennis and Myers already showing top end skill.Enroth has improved in his NHL starts and looks like he could have a future in the NHL. Adam and Kassian are big kids and have showed good offensive potential. The backend is loaded with promising young players like McNabb and Pysyk and still young players like Butler,Sekera,Weber and Myers already making the big squad.

Other notables possibly making the team at some point with Foligno, Gauthier Leduc, Sundher, Schiestel and Brennan.

I think our prospect pool is the least of our worries right now
Yeah we have a lot of prospects with decent potential, but we have no prospects with high end talent besides Ennis, Myers, and maybe maybe Adam. Kassian could end up becoming a top six player, but most of our other decent forward prospects are bottom six type guys such as Foligno, Sundher etc.

I love that they've drafting big and tough guys the last few years, but they need to start drafting skill guys too. I'm not saying they should draft small and soft guys, but they need to draft more offensive talent, and guys who have potential to be impact scorers in the NHL. Pysyk was a solid safe pick who could end up being a solid to good 2nd pairing dman, but that pick might've been much better spent on a forward with top six potential.

Our current prospect pool is decent, but it could very much use an infusion of skill and high end offensive talent. Adam has the potential to be a solid offensive player in the NHL, but who knows exactly how high his ceiling is offensively. Ennis is really the only forward in the system with high end talent.

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Old
12-02-2010, 01:32 PM
  #61
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I think Kassian has to be our most impressive prospect right now outside of Myers/Ennis.

Almost 2ppg in the OHL, leading a team that lost most of it's top contributors.


Blow it up? No. However changes need to be made. More of a re-tool than a rebuild.

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Old
12-02-2010, 01:37 PM
  #62
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"Blowing it up" is not the answer. I do not think that solves anything, except 5-6 more years of misery. There are many good players on this team but they are not "game changers" or players you build your team around. The best way to describe our team, it is a team of complimentary players.

That core group of complimentary players is what needs to be dismantled. IMO, that group consists of: Vanek, Stafford, Pomminville, Gausted, Connolly, Hacht and Roy. They are the ones who "grew up" in Rochester together. They are the ones who we all know are soft. They are the ones we all know are inconsistant. They are the ones who we see play game after game with no heart.

That group needs to be changed. However, the entire group does not need to go. Unless I am getting a top 3 pick for Roy, he is not going anywhere. Other than him, the rest of that core can go.

As for the coachs...I don't know who pulls the strings. If this is all Darcy's fault, get rid of him. If Quinn is really behind a lot of the deals, or lack of being proactive, then we are screwed until the team is sold.

What I would do is target a few players that could help, and overpay. I'm talking about addressing specific needs, center, grit, leadership. Only younger guys that we could build around. IMO, I'd do everything to get Staal out of Pittsburgh. If it's somthing around Ennis, oh well. The middle with Roy, Staal and Adam over the next 5-6 years would be awesome.

I've thrown this out before....trade Miller to Pittsburgh in a deal around Fluery & Staal.

I'd try to keep Butler, Weber & Sekera and let them be our defense of the future with Myers. Sure, one is not going to pan out but I'd rather go with the young guys making rookie mistakes then see Rivet on the ice.

Trade a lot of these guys off.

***Come on, Connolly should fetch a nice return right now. There is no reason why we can't get a 2nd & prospect right now. He is close to a PPG player, a true play maker.
***Hecht has been a consistant 30-50 point player, who plays a solid two way game. He's got some value.
***Gausted....size, face-offs, age. Someone will take a chance on him.
***Pomminville. He's having an aweful season but he has 4 straight seasons of 60+ points. terrific 2 way player. He's a salary dump but a great complimentary player.
***Vanek. Talk about a stallion playing in a polo match. The guy is in such the wrong system it kills watching him play for us. But, still 2 40+ goals, someone will take that chance. I really wouldn't mind keeping him with the right center/linmate.
***Stafford has got to have a 2nd in him, or at least a trade for a decent prospect, or reclaim project.

Anyway, I'm all for trading away our core, plus some other guys. IMO, Only Myers is untouchable. Roy for big overpayment. Miller for the right deal that gives us that young center we need. Other than those 3, every player is available for the right price. Kassain, Adam & Ennis are 3 I would need some significant return because they are our future....but I'm sure in order to trade Pomms/Vanek, one of them are going the other way.

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Old
12-02-2010, 02:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
"Blowing it up" is not the answer. I do not think that solves anything, except 5-6 more years of misery. There are many good players on this team but they are not "game changers" or players you build your team around. The best way to describe our team, it is a team of complimentary players.

That core group of complimentary players is what needs to be dismantled. IMO, that group consists of: Vanek, Stafford, Pomminville, Gausted, Connolly, Hacht and Roy. They are the ones who "grew up" in Rochester together. They are the ones who we all know are soft. They are the ones we all know are inconsistant. They are the ones who we see play game after game with no heart.

That group needs to be changed. However, the entire group does not need to go. Unless I am getting a top 3 pick for Roy, he is not going anywhere. Other than him, the rest of that core can go.

As for the coachs...I don't know who pulls the strings. If this is all Darcy's fault, get rid of him. If Quinn is really behind a lot of the deals, or lack of being proactive, then we are screwed until the team is sold.

What I would do is target a few players that could help, and overpay. I'm talking about addressing specific needs, center, grit, leadership. Only younger guys that we could build around. IMO, I'd do everything to get Staal out of Pittsburgh. If it's somthing around Ennis, oh well. The middle with Roy, Staal and Adam over the next 5-6 years would be awesome.

I've thrown this out before....trade Miller to Pittsburgh in a deal around Fluery & Staal.

I'd try to keep Butler, Weber & Sekera and let them be our defense of the future with Myers. Sure, one is not going to pan out but I'd rather go with the young guys making rookie mistakes then see Rivet on the ice.

Trade a lot of these guys off.

***Come on, Connolly should fetch a nice return right now. There is no reason why we can't get a 2nd & prospect right now. He is close to a PPG player, a true play maker.
***Hecht has been a consistant 30-50 point player, who plays a solid two way game. He's got some value.
***Gausted....size, face-offs, age. Someone will take a chance on him.
***Pomminville. He's having an aweful season but he has 4 straight seasons of 60+ points. terrific 2 way player. He's a salary dump but a great complimentary player.
***Vanek. Talk about a stallion playing in a polo match. The guy is in such the wrong system it kills watching him play for us. But, still 2 40+ goals, someone will take that chance. I really wouldn't mind keeping him with the right center/linmate.
***Stafford has got to have a 2nd in him, or at least a trade for a decent prospect, or reclaim project.

Anyway, I'm all for trading away our core, plus some other guys. IMO, Only Myers is untouchable. Roy for big overpayment. Miller for the right deal that gives us that young center we need. Other than those 3, every player is available for the right price. Kassain, Adam & Ennis are 3 I would need some significant return because they are our future....but I'm sure in order to trade Pomms/Vanek, one of them are going the other way.
I think you make some good points, but really, its only just over a quarter into the season - and more or less the whole team have underperformed.

The answer to the original question is neither yes or no IMO - its somewhere in between. And most people call for the same things every offseason, every trade deadline etc.

The team doesn't need 'blowing up', it just needs some moves making. If the season carries on as it has done so far, then maybe more moves will be needed.

A lot of salary and bodies are coming off the roster in the summer. The team doesn't need to sell off the rest of the team and start again. Just wish Regier and Co had the balls to take a few risks and make just one or two decisive signings or trades.

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Old
12-02-2010, 03:02 PM
  #64
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Yeah we have a lot of prospects with decent potential, but we have no prospects with high end talent besides Ennis, Myers, and maybe maybe Adam. Kassian could end up becoming a top six player, but most of our other decent forward prospects are bottom six type guys such as Foligno, Sundher etc.

I love that they've drafting big and tough guys the last few years, but they need to start drafting skill guys too.
I'm not saying they should draft small and soft guys, but they need to draft more offensive talent, and guys who have potential to be impact scorers in the NHL. Pysyk was a solid safe pick who could end up being a solid to good 2nd pairing dman, but that pick might've been much better spent on a forward with top six potential.

Our current prospect pool is decent, but it could very much use an infusion of skill and high end offensive talent. Adam has the potential to be a solid offensive player in the NHL, but who knows exactly how high his ceiling is offensively. Ennis is really the only forward in the system with high end talent.
Two years ago you were clamoring for tough guys. Now you want skill guys.

Then will draft skill guys and you'll complain that this team doesn't have balls.

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Old
12-02-2010, 05:38 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ghills23 View Post
Two years ago you were clamoring for tough guys. Now you want skill guys.

Then will draft skill guys and you'll complain that this team doesn't have balls.
No, the solution is you don't draft either ****ing midgets with skill or goons with no skill, you find the middle ground.

Literally all of the picks after Pysyk (except that stupid Visentin pick) were skilled guys with size.
It's like they wanted Sheahan, but as soon as Detroit took them because they made no effort of asking around, they were just like "OKAY BPA NOW GUYS WHO IS ON THE LIST" and since Pysyk was ranked 7th by CS, they drafted him.

I don't have anything against Pysyk, it's just hilarious to me that all picks after him except one were forwards and they're all what we're looking for.
Not to mention, the 2nd round began with forwards also and if we hadn't traded away that 2nd round pick like we always do for that waste that was Torres, more skilled guys with size were on the board then.

Instead we pick guys who fell for some reason, whether it be injuries or attitude problems, in the middle rounds and hope they don't bust.
Or, the fall back is just draft anything above 6'3" no matter the upside.

It really can't be that hard to draft someone who at least reaches the 6'0" mark, since I know many normal people who are that height.

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12-02-2010, 05:41 PM
  #66
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Moving out a good chunk of the core counts as "blowing it up", IMO.

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12-02-2010, 06:19 PM
  #67
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Here's a couple centers I wouldn't mind us taking a shot at either this season or during the summer. The key to these trades would be dumping Connolly IMO. I don't know what we'd have to give up for some of these guys, but I think we have a couple useful pieces in Gaustad, Stafford, Connolly, Sekera, Butler, Hecht, Gerbe. Others could be moved too, but these are the guys I'd look to move first. The contract years are what's left after this season.

Little, ATL, 2 years, $2.39
McDonald, STL, 2 years, $4.7
Steen, STL, 3 years, $3.62
Berglund, STL, UFA, $1.24
Hanzel, PHO, 1 year, $1.8
Richards, DAL, UFA, $7.8
Ribiero, DAL, 2 years, $5
Umberger, 1 year, $3.75
Vermette, 4 years, $3.75
Brassard, 3 years, $3.2

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12-02-2010, 08:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ghills23 View Post
Two years ago you were clamoring for tough guys. Now you want skill guys.

Then will draft skill guys and you'll complain that this team doesn't have balls.
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
No, the solution is you don't draft either ****ing midgets with skill or goons with no skill, you find the middle ground.

Literally all of the picks after Pysyk (except that stupid Visentin pick) were skilled guys with size.
It's like they wanted Sheahan, but as soon as Detroit took them because they made no effort of asking around, they were just like "OKAY BPA NOW GUYS WHO IS ON THE LIST" and since Pysyk was ranked 7th by CS, they drafted him.

I don't have anything against Pysyk, it's just hilarious to me that all picks after him except one were forwards and they're all what we're looking for.
Not to mention, the 2nd round began with forwards also and if we hadn't traded away that 2nd round pick like we always do for that waste that was Torres, more skilled guys with size were on the board then.

Instead we pick guys who fell for some reason, whether it be injuries or attitude problems, in the middle rounds and hope they don't bust.
Or, the fall back is just draft anything above 6'3" no matter the upside.

It really can't be that hard to draft someone who at least reaches the 6'0" mark, since I know many normal people who are that height.
Yeah I was gonna say it's not hard to find skill guys who are at least 6'0", have skill, and play with tenacity as in they aren't scared to make the plays they need to and to get their noses dirty. Adam is a guy who I think is like that. Toews is too IMO. They aren't overly physical but have decent size so they won't get knocked off the puck easily.

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12-03-2010, 12:35 AM
  #69
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Yeah I was gonna say it's not hard to find skill guys who are at least 6'0", have skill, and play with tenacity as in they aren't scared to make the plays they need to and to get their noses dirty. Adam is a guy who I think is like that. Toews is too IMO. They aren't overly physical but have decent size so they won't get knocked off the puck easily.
I thought Toews was overrated?

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12-03-2010, 12:55 AM
  #70
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No, the solution is you don't draft either ****ing midgets with skill or goons with no skill, you find the middle ground.

Literally all of the picks after Pysyk (except that stupid Visentin pick) were skilled guys with size.
It's like they wanted Sheahan, but as soon as Detroit took them because they made no effort of asking around, they were just like "OKAY BPA NOW GUYS WHO IS ON THE LIST" and since Pysyk was ranked 7th by CS, they drafted him.

I don't have anything against Pysyk, it's just hilarious to me that all picks after him except one were forwards and they're all what we're looking for.
Not to mention, the 2nd round began with forwards also and if we hadn't traded away that 2nd round pick like we always do for that waste that was Torres, more skilled guys with size were on the board then.

Instead we pick guys who fell for some reason, whether it be injuries or attitude problems, in the middle rounds and hope they don't bust.
Or, the fall back is just draft anything above 6'3" no matter the upside.

It really can't be that hard to draft someone who at least reaches the 6'0" mark, since I know many normal people who are that height.
I still wish Darcy would've made some sort of effort to get Sheahan. He's gonna be good.

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12-03-2010, 01:30 AM
  #71
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I thought Toews was overrated?
Not really.
If you're talking about TSN saying he was the 3rd best player after Crosby and Ovechkin, I don't necessarily agree with that but he's clearly one of the best players in the league right now IMO.

His personal and team achievements are incredible and the intangibles he has are off the charts.

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I still wish Darcy would've made some sort of effort to get Sheahan. He's gonna be good.
Yeah, I get the feeling he will be too because he's able to develop slowly, not to mention the tools are there.
It also helps that he's a Red Wings prospect, so he is guaranteed to succeed.

I would have been more than okay with Etem too, it seems like his head is screwed on right.
There's a nice documentary on him here.

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12-03-2010, 09:31 AM
  #72
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I thought Toews was overrated?
He had a great playoff but everyone seems to forget he's never put up more than 69 points in a season. He's also on pace for another average regular season. A lot of his playoff success had to do with all the talent that he had around him as well as his own talent. This thread isn't about Toews, and just because I don't think he's as good as the media tells us he is, doesn't mean I wouldn't take him on the Sabres.

And I brought up Toews because he's a good example of a skill guy who has decent size (he's 6'2" 210 lbs), plays with some tenacity, but isn't overly physical or tough.

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12-03-2010, 02:50 PM
  #73
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I don't know about all this firing Ruff talk. He's consistently done a good job with what he has. Regier should be shown the door as would usually any new take over if and hopefully when Pegula takes over. Move Vanek, Pomminville and Connolly for whatever you get. Rivet hasn't done anything but decrease any minute value he has. Cut Morrisonn, Lalime.

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