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Last place is better than mediocrity

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12-03-2010, 09:21 PM
  #1
CodeE
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Last place is better than mediocrity

The more I think about it, the more I believe this team is tanking. Not the players, they try to win every night, but Wang, Snow and company put together a team that throughout the course of an 82 game season will lose. This is because the '10-11 New York Islanders have absolutely no chance of winning the Stanley Cup. We could have signed Kovalchuk, Martin, Volchenkov, Nabakov any possible combination of free agents and we still wouldn't win the Stanley Cup.

So the season started, players got injured, and as expected, we're at the bottom of the standings. This is disheartening for the fans, Wang's gonna lose a ton of money this season, we all know this. But he would be an absolute fool to sell this franchise right now.

Simply put, it's all about the draft and exploiting a system that rewards failure. Last year we did better than expected but still finished 5th worst. While I like Nino and hope great things, I still think what the team would be like if Taylor Hall was wearing #4 instead of Mark Eaton. In today's internet age, these kids like Sean Couturier and Adam Larsson are picked apart by professional hockey writers and amateur hockey fans. Strengths, weaknesses, leadership, everything is poured over with a fine tooth comb.

Yes, some top picks have failed - but not recently. Since Stefan in 1999 (back when the internet was mostly geocities sites and you couldn't make phone calls when using it), every single first overall picks that is a forward has turned into a superstar. Kovalchuk, Nash, Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, and Hall. NHL scouting has gotten to the point where potential Angelo Espositos and Kabanovs are spotted early and fall accordingly. Forwards who go first overall become the faces of their franchises, compete for the Hart trophy. Crosby, Ovechkin, and Stamkos lead the NHL in points right now. The system can be exploited by losing, by being the worst.

Sean Couturier does more for this franchise than Gabriel Landeskog. Adam Larsson does more for the future of the Islanders than Ryan Murphy. Every year, the further and further you get down the draft ranks, the less quality NHL players you see. A player taken 1st overall will historically have a better chance to succeed than one taken 10th, who has a better chance than the player taken 20th, and so on.

So we lose, and we hoard. We greedily take all the young superstars for ourselves while leaving the Minnesota Wilds and Carolina Hurricanes to take their chances on a guy like Brandon Saad. Will Saad develop into a great hockey player? Probably. But not as good as Couturier.

Winning will solve everything, but we can't win unless we have superstars. Unrestricted free agents won't sign here, so the only way to get bonafide NHL superstars on this team is to finish as bad as possible. Be patient for now, our kids will come through eventually. This year? I'm hoping for the worst finish possible.

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12-03-2010, 09:22 PM
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Doug Height
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No it's not.

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12-03-2010, 09:24 PM
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CodeE
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Come on man, I just posted that a minute ago. Gotta read my reasoning before you dismiss it.

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12-03-2010, 09:25 PM
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Last place is not acceptable and it is not a way to build a foundation of a team. Wang and co. has stripped this team of it's infrastructure and works on bare bones without having to invest seriously in this team. I wish he would just sell the team if he is losing so much money or just move it already.

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12-03-2010, 09:27 PM
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Doug Height
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisisacodee View Post
Come on man, I just posted that a minute ago. Gotta read my reasoning before you dismiss it.
I read it. I somewhat agree.

My point is that it doesn't matter who we draft with Snow/Wang at the helm.

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12-03-2010, 09:30 PM
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Nothing is worse than the possition we are in now. Continuing to loss and even if things do get turned around we know when death is coming, 2015. Even if they get the 1st overall pick, one player will not turn this around. We are doomed. We had too much success in the 80's and are paying for it now. 19 straight playoff round victories were too much for the hockey gods to take.

NOTHING IS WORSE THAN THIS.

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12-03-2010, 09:32 PM
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I'm tired of the last week in June being our most exciting part of the season.
I'm tired of being out of the playoff hunt by December

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12-03-2010, 09:36 PM
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If you plan on building a team on 1st rounders, eventually they'll leave. They will stick out their ELC's and be gone shortly after. I also wouldn't call Tavares a superstar yet. If you can have a good core of players, the UFA's will follow. Look at Chicago and Pittsburgh and Washington. Your core is Tavares, Okposo and Streit and that's about it. Maybe you throw Martin into that core, but not yet...

You're not going to build a team around Comeau, Nielsen, Bailey and DP.

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12-03-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Ranger Fan View Post
If you plan on building a team on 1st rounders, eventually they'll leave. They will stick out their ELC's and be gone shortly after. I also wouldn't call Tavares a superstar yet. If you can have a good core of players, the UFA's will follow. Look at Chicago and Pittsburgh and Washington. Your core is Tavares, Okposo and Streit and that's about it. Maybe you throw Martin into that core, but not yet...

You're not going to build a team around Comeau, Nielsen, Bailey and DP.
I would put Bailey in the core but at this point I could care less about Comeau and Neilsen

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12-03-2010, 09:40 PM
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None of this matters. They can draft every stud from now and the next few years. With the two clowns atop this ****show nothing good will happen. You can bet on that.

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12-03-2010, 09:46 PM
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CodeE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
Last place is not acceptable and it is not a way to build a foundation of a team. Wang and co. has stripped this team of it's infrastructure and works on bare bones without having to invest seriously in this team. I wish he would just sell the team if he is losing so much money or just move it already.
Yes it is, because the system can be exploited. Our kids haven't yet matured, so grabbing another superstar will help us in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Height View Post
I read it. I somewhat agree.

My point is that it doesn't matter who we draft with Snow/Wang at the helm.
Snow/Wang aren't on the ice. Furthermore they're committed to not trading the youth at any cost. This team still suffers from the Milbury era of Bergenheim, Nokelainen, O'Marra, and Nilsson. Those type of players, the 20th overall types, were our future and they were all terrible. The teams that finished worst overall got great players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
Nothing is worse than the possition we are in now. Continuing to loss and even if things do get turned around we know when death is coming, 2015. Even if they get the 1st overall pick, one player will not turn this around. We are doomed. We had too much success in the 80's and are paying for it now. 19 straight playoff round victories were too much for the hockey gods to take.

NOTHING IS WORSE THAN THIS.
One player will not turn this around. Several superstars will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macch View Post
I'm tired of the last week in June being our most exciting part of the season.
I'm tired of being out of the playoff hunt by December
I am too, but until we have the talent to compete for the playoffs, we're better off being the worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Ranger Fan View Post
If you plan on building a team on 1st rounders, eventually they'll leave. They will stick out their ELC's and be gone shortly after. I also wouldn't call Tavares a superstar yet. If you can have a good core of players, the UFA's will follow. Look at Chicago and Pittsburgh and Washington. Your core is Tavares, Okposo and Streit and that's about it. Maybe you throw Martin into that core, but not yet...

You're not going to build a team around Comeau, Nielsen, Bailey and DP.
If we grab Couturier, my thought is that by the time they hit UFA, they'll want to stay. Because by that point, we'll have amassed enough high picks to make the team competitive.

Agreed that you're not going to build a team around Comeau, Nielsen, and DP. Hell even Bailey we traded down for. If we had done worse that season and grabbed Stamkos instead of Bailey, this would be an entirely different team.

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12-03-2010, 09:46 PM
  #12
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If The Penguins traded Malkin, Crosby, for sim, and Detroit gave us Lidstrom for free, the Isles would miss the playoffs. A team cannot win with a starting goalie who is simply the worst in the league. look at Dipietro's stats. Rolleson sits because Wang is friends with Dipietro. Nothing else matters.

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12-03-2010, 09:53 PM
  #13
CodeE
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We lose because we can't score. Through 24 games, Tavares and Moulson have 9 goals. Grabner has 6. Nobody else on the team has more than 4. By comparison, Crosby and Stamkos both have 21. That's one less than our top three scorers combined.

We simply don't have forwards that can put the puck in the back of the net. Only way to get more of these players is to lose, and lose big. The season's over for us. Bailey is not a superstar, Stamkos is. I'm pretty sure Nino will never be as good as Hall. On the flip side, I'm also pretty sure Brayden Schenn will never be as good as Tavares.

1st overall or bust, guys.

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12-03-2010, 09:53 PM
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Doug Height
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisisacodee View Post
Snow/Wang aren't on the ice. Furthermore they're committed to not trading the youth at any cost. This team still suffers from the Milbury era of Bergenheim, Nokelainen, O'Marra, and Nilsson. Those type of players, the 20th overall types, were our future and they were all terrible. The teams that finished worst overall got great players.
It doesn't matter how many 1st overall picks they get, they will never win anything if Wang is spending around the cap floor.

Might as well get the 1st overall though, as it gives a better asset to the new owner/GM if Wang ever sells.


Last edited by Doug Height: 12-03-2010 at 09:58 PM.
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12-03-2010, 09:59 PM
  #15
CodeE
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Wang tanks because there's nobody to spend the money on. We throw money at Paul Martin and Dan Hamhuis only to have them laugh off the offers and sign elsewhere. We're terrible now and the only way to get better is to grab yet another 18-year-old superstar.

Simply subbing Couturier into Parenteau's spot will improve the team immediately. It's not hoarding if you only grab one player, you spend a couple years being god awful and taking as many 1st overall forwards as you possibly can.

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12-03-2010, 10:02 PM
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You know what, Streit/Okposo really did make the difference of us being a possible 7-8 playoff team this season. I dont want to say we are out of it but there are too many teams that were bad last year that are good this year like atlanta, carolina and Tampa. 7-8th seed would be a reach because of this. So true about top picks. We need someone to get excited about, this team does need one more draft in the top 3. You can all get mad at me but this season is such a tank job. No team that loses 14 straight deserves to be in the playoffs anyway. End of story.

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12-03-2010, 10:03 PM
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Islanderfan72
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Originally Posted by Thisisacodee View Post


One player will not turn this around. Several superstars will.
So you are saying next year we will have to finish in last place too?

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12-03-2010, 10:09 PM
  #18
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Every year we have this argument.

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12-03-2010, 10:10 PM
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CodeE
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
So you are saying next year we will have to finish in last place too?
Six forwards, four defensemen, one goaltender with high-end talent. That's what we need to compete. Bottom 6 players, third pair defensemen, they can be found in free agency. To win, you need talent at the top.

Right now, we have three forwards (Tavares, Okposo, maybe Moulson), two defensemen (Streit, maybe AMac) and zero goaltenders. I'm hoping Bailey, Nino, and one or both of the Kirills can become high-end forwards, hoping DeHaan and Hamonic can become high-end defensemen.

But Couturier, Larsson, or Nugent-Hopkins? Pencil them in immediately.

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12-03-2010, 10:16 PM
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Listen guys, some of you could care less about my comment since I'm not regular here this season and stopped caring about this team when they let go Jank and Jaffe (that was pinnacle of my demise as Isles fan of Wang era), but Last place is better than mediocrity when it's once a decade to just replenish your talent level, but when this circus run by biggest clown on earth is fighting for that last place year after year after year - even dreamer must realize - it's all in vain!

"Hockey is irrelevant. I am a real estate machine!"

Will be back when clown sells.

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12-03-2010, 10:21 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Thisisacodee View Post
Six forwards, four defensemen, one goaltender with high-end talent. That's what we need to compete. Bottom 6 players, third pair defensemen, they can be found in free agency. To win, you need talent at the top.

Right now, we have three forwards (Tavares, Okposo, maybe Moulson), two defensemen (Streit, maybe AMac) and zero goaltenders. I'm hoping Bailey, Nino, and one or both of the Kirills can become high-end forwards, hoping DeHaan and Hamonic can become high-end defensemen.

But Couturier, Larsson, or Nugent-Hopkins? Pencil them in immediately.
1) Moulson will be gone by the trading deadline
2) Tavares and Okposo would maybe make the 2nd line of 29 other NHL teams. They are good but by no means are they high end talent.
3) Streit will be long gone or too old by the time we get all these pieces


If we have to collect all these pieces, it is going to take a very very very long time. Plus by the time we get some good key players, they are going to leave for FA and the cycle continues.

I agree with your argument that top draft picks lead to winning organizations, but what you miss is you need an infusion of real veteran players who can contribute to turn the corner and teach the kids.

Happened with the kings, pens, hawks, caps, ect.....
Didn't happen with florida, atlanta, oilers, islanders, ect.....

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12-03-2010, 10:27 PM
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Wang tanks because there's nobody to spend the money on. We throw money at Paul Martin and Dan Hamhuis only to have them laugh off the offers and sign elsewhere.
I know it will cost us future draft picks since he's an RFA, but I like the idea of the Isles opening their wallet and going after Parise. He's young, a proven scorer and can grow with the core of the team the Isles are building. My only concern is how he comes back after the injury.

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12-03-2010, 10:29 PM
  #23
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I know it will cost us future draft picks since he's an RFA, but I like the idea of the Isles opening their wallet and going after Parise. He's young, a proven scorer and can grow with the core of the team the Isles are building. My only concern is how he comes back after the injury.
Its a pipe dream. No way he signs an offer sheet with us. Even if Wang did open up his wallet, seeing how Parise is a team guy and wants to win, I would think he would rather a pay cut than play for a loser.

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12-03-2010, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
1) Moulson will be gone by the trading deadline
2) Tavares and Okposo would maybe make the 2nd line of 29 other NHL teams. They are good but by no means are they high end talent.
3) Streit will be long gone or too old by the time we get all these pieces


If we have to collect all these pieces, it is going to take a very very very long time. Plus by the time we get some good key players, they are going to leave for FA and the cycle continues.

I agree with your argument that top draft picks lead to winning organizations, but what you miss is you need an infusion of real veteran players who can contribute to turn the corner and teach the kids.

Happened with the kings, pens, hawks, caps, ect.....
Didn't happen with florida, atlanta, oilers, islanders, ect.....
I bet you anything Streit has at least another good 5 years left in him. If there is one player that has guts and wants to win badly, its Streit. I would sign him to a 5 year deal 25 mill. Sounds like a lot but teams will be lining up for this guy the second he becomes a free agent. If Lidtstrom and Gonchar are still playing, Streit could do the same. Im not saying he is either one of them but he plays a clean game and is pretty durable besides the freak accident this season.

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12-03-2010, 10:30 PM
  #25
Dutch Frost
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Its so sad that 2 weeks ago people were cringing with the "Season Over Posts" No one wanted to hear it!! Now its become a reality and the only thing to talk about is a lottery pick and its only the first week of December.

I personally cant wait for February when 2,000 people will be in the stands.

I have always debated with people who say the NHL should contract the Islanders. I have officially given up with this team and I am losing interest in the sport.

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