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Old
12-03-2010, 07:58 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I'd rather watch Kadri's failure to develop into a first line centre destroy the Leaf franchise.....
Oh he will fail. I'm quite sure of that. They've got him pegged as the 'great ??? hope' and that pressure in a fishbowl like Toronto will crush him.

Gonna be fun watching the Laffs miss the POs for the next five years. I'm rooting for them.. hoping they set a record for NHL team missing the POs for the most years in a row.

Go Laffs !! Perfect that golf swing !!

Nazeem Kadri will win the PGA before he wins anything in the NHL.

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12-03-2010, 09:01 PM
  #102
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lol... leafs..

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12-03-2010, 09:31 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Agreed, I wouldn't trade JVR for Kadri or Kulemin. Not interested.

I'd rather watch Kadri's failure to develop into a first line centre destroy the Leaf franchise.....
They are going to ruin him. Today they put him on the 4th line and Wilson said the most minutes he would get would be on the PP and not ES. Why even bother? Just put him in the AHL for some real ice time.

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12-03-2010, 09:36 PM
  #104
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Remember that one time when the Leafs traded their next two first round draft picks even though everyone knew they would finish dead last both seasons?

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12-03-2010, 09:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
While it has been beat to death, shooter loves kaberle. When he feels this way he somehow, even years later seems to get his guy. Something to keep in mind. As I said it would have to be a multi player deal if it ever happened. Kaberle then signs an ext for 4mm,he replaces carle at 500k more. You know shooter is thinking about the cap possibilities as we speak!
Would anyone be really surprised if he is dealt? I wouldn’t.
id always heard it was clarke who had an infatuation with kaberle.


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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I'm explaining why the trade was a no-go. The top guys the Leafs have, won't be available unless it's a clear win. There's no motivation for the Leafs to trade any of the guys I listed for JVR, when he hasn't really proven himself either.
getting jvr for any of those guys is a clear win for the leafs. he was the number 2 pick in the draft. as a leafs fan you understand the amount of suck it takes to draft that high. when you suck that bad, like the leafs do (and the flyers did) it helps to have the soothing feeling of having a future awesome player. you gave yours to boston and no, you cant have ours. but if you play nice and eat lots of bad salary i could do jvr for kaberle. because in a way, that would mean jvr got us the cup. no go eh? jvr is a developing power forward who hasnt even filled out yet. his skills beyond just his size have him playing decent minutes on a very deep flyers team. his potential, and value to us is really high.

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12-03-2010, 09:56 PM
  #106
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Flyers dont need anyone from a lot of teams, they probably dont even need JVR

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12-04-2010, 12:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Kadri? No thanks. I know Leafs fans think he's the NHL's next superstar, but he's a long, long way from it.
If the common knock on JVR is that he's missing the certain "something" that makes players suited to his game work out in the big leagues, then Kadri is missing just as much of that same thing.

I second you on this one...no thanks.

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12-04-2010, 12:22 AM
  #108
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dont want to beat a dead horse but... whether people like to hear it or not, when he is compared to kane (which is the closest and best comparison) JVR is an utter failure so far. unless the talent drop off from first to second was that great, JVR really needs to kick it into gear. kane won them the ****ing cup. not to say jvr lost it for us, but he certainly didn't help that much. then again.. kyle turris certainly isn't setting any records either.

inb4 i get flamed

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12-04-2010, 12:39 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
dont want to beat a dead horse but... whether people like to hear it or not, when he is compared to kane (which is the closest and best comparison) JVR is an utter failure so far. unless the talent drop off from first to second was that great, JVR really needs to kick it into gear. kane won them the ****ing cup. not to say jvr lost it for us, but he certainly didn't help that much. then again.. kyle turris certainly isn't setting any records either.

inb4 i get flamed
You have to take into account that every player develops differently. Big lanky kids like JVR take longer to fill out and find their game than guys like Kane. JVR is what, 21? It's way too early to worry about it. Kane is just a great little player, JVR will be, you just have to have some patience. He's got amazing hands and vision, along with speed, size and a good attitude. You get glimpses of what he will be quite often now, and another 10 pounds heavier next year he'll be even better.

It's like all the people on here who declared that Nodl had no offensive skill or game and that he was destined to only check, whereas others of us saw his hands and hockey sense two years ago and realized it might just take some time and some confidence for him to find his talent in the NHL game. Right now, he's showing excellent offensive instincts, scoring nice goals and getting better all the time. Lucky we didn't jettison him two years ago because he didn't enter the NHL fully formed as an offensive star.

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12-04-2010, 12:44 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfernee Hardaway View Post
Flyers dont need anyone from a lot of teams, they probably dont even need JVR


Haha Hardaway was one of my favorite players when I was a kid!!

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12-04-2010, 01:19 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
You have to take into account that every player develops differently. Big lanky kids like JVR take longer to fill out and find their game than guys like Kane. JVR is what, 21? It's way too early to worry about it. Kane is just a great little player, JVR will be, you just have to have some patience. He's got amazing hands and vision, along with speed, size and a good attitude. You get glimpses of what he will be quite often now, and another 10 pounds heavier next year he'll be even better.

It's like all the people on here who declared that Nodl had no offensive skill or game and that he was destined to only check, whereas others of us saw his hands and hockey sense two years ago and realized it might just take some time and some confidence for him to find his talent in the NHL game. Right now, he's showing excellent offensive instincts, scoring nice goals and getting better all the time. Lucky we didn't jettison him two years ago because he didn't enter the NHL fully formed as an offensive star.
i agree. but, this is the NHL. windows are small and when you have malkin, crosby, kane and toews in other teams, waiting sucks

then, what if you wait for him to develop into the power forward he should be, passing on trade after trade banking on his draft position and potential and it falls through? just saying.. someone drafted 2nd, having played college and AHL AND with stanley cup experience should develop faster, especially with the strong leadership in the locker room. ****, correct if i am wrong but it looks like hall and sequin are looking better than jvr. ****ing stamkos looks better than ovechkin and tavares is a star already.

im jus throwing that out there. how long do you wait for him to develop when other teams are getting better each and every year with more talented squads. the flyers have zero star prospects (except giroux, but he is out of prospect range now). sure we have carter, richards, giroux but they don't compete with ovie and backstrom and carlson or crosby, malkin and fleur or even kane and toews duncan/keith.

jvr almost NEEDS to turn into what he was drafted to be otherwise it will be epic fail IMO

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12-04-2010, 01:39 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
dont want to beat a dead horse but... whether people like to hear it or not, when he is compared to kane (which is the closest and best comparison) JVR is an utter failure so far. unless the talent drop off from first to second was that great, JVR really needs to kick it into gear. kane won them the ****ing cup. not to say jvr lost it for us, but he certainly didn't help that much. then again.. kyle turris certainly isn't setting any records either.

inb4 i get flamed
JVR and Kane are nothing alike. There is no comparison between them.

People got impatient with Carter as well. JVR will develop. Be patient. It'd happen sooner on a crappier team, but that's not the Flyers. I think he'll be worth the wait. The Flyers can afford to wait. And I doubt they won't wait.

The Flyers need almost nothing. They could not make a trade for the rest of the season and be fine. If they they make a trade, it will be Zherdev, if he asks, for far less than he's worth to get him to a place where he can get ice time.

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12-04-2010, 02:01 AM
  #113
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Claude Giroux (20-21) - 124 GP - 69 P - 0.56 PPG
Jeff Carter (20-21) - 143 GP - 79 P - 0.55 PPG
Mike Richards (20-21) - 138 GP - 66 P - 0.48 PPG
James vanRiemsdyk (20-21) - 100 GP - 45 P - 0.45 PPG

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Old
12-04-2010, 04:42 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
i agree. but, this is the NHL. windows are small and when you have malkin, crosby, kane and toews in other teams, waiting sucks
There will always be star players on other teams.
What does this have to do with JVR?
And our window is far from small, we still have a very young core.

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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
then, what if you wait for him to develop into the power forward he should be, passing on trade after trade banking on his draft position and potential and it falls through? just saying.. someone drafted 2nd, having played college and AHL AND with stanley cup experience should develop faster, especially with the strong leadership in the locker room. ****, correct if i am wrong but it looks like hall and sequin are looking better than jvr. ****ing stamkos looks better than ovechkin and tavares is a star already.
Tavares is far from a star.
And how should YOU know how fast JVR has to develop. Players develop differently and I don't see how JVR is costing us right now. It might be even better for as in the long run if he doesn't score 30+ goals right now because we might get him on a cheap short-term contract after his ELC runs out.

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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
im jus throwing that out there. how long do you wait for him to develop when other teams are getting better each and every year with more talented squads. the flyers have zero star prospects (except giroux, but he is out of prospect range now). sure we have carter, richards, giroux but they don't compete with ovie and backstrom and carlson or crosby, malkin and fleur or even kane and toews duncan/keith.
Carlson?! Fleury?! Those two aren't stars and while Carlson will be a nice defender I don't see him as a legit #1. Fleury is an OK goaltender, nothing more.
As far as Toews goes, we have Richards. I'm quite confident in that match-up.
Keith is 26 years old, is he a prospect? Also Pronger is better.
As for the rest, we all saw how far all this "star-power" got them in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
jvr almost NEEDS to turn into what he was drafted to be otherwise it will be epic fail IMO
No he doesn't.
This team is equipped with offensive talent for years to come.
JVR might turn into a PPG player who can score 40 goals, but if he "only" scores 30 a year it won't kill this team.

And what exactly will be an epic fail?
The fact that we drafted him instead of Kyle Turris, Thomas Hickey or Karl Alzner?
Or the fact that we are keeping him right now, after an OK rookie season, because we could trade him for some unnecessary players?


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12-04-2010, 05:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
jvr almost NEEDS to turn into what he was drafted to be otherwise it will be epic fail IMO
Two words. Jeff Carter.

Did Jeff Carter become a first round draft pick from his first two seasons in the NHL. No, infact he stunk the joint up in his second year when he was relied on to become a point producer. Something that never should of happened for him. Would you like to trade him now?

/case and point

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12-04-2010, 05:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He will be a solid 60 point guy for a long time in this league with potential for more. Trading him for picks would be incredibly foolish. I have said this so many times on this board and no one seems to agree, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Since when does what you say become fact? He has had one season in the NHL potting 35 points. This year he is on pace for around 45. I hate people that spout opinion as fact. Look i'm a JVR fan, i think he will become a good player in this league, but don't presume anything. You want a quote. Presumtion is the mother of all **** ups.

Would i take two (likely top 5) picks for JVR, Yes, yes i would. Not because JVR is a bad player, but the flyers don't need him this year, it opens up a little wiggle room for a deadline deal, and the flyers get a little security down the line for prospects. Not to mention that Z moves into his position. It's not like we would be losing any production.

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12-04-2010, 08:14 AM
  #117
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Not trying to insult Leaf Fans, but:

Isn't the more fundamental question: Don't the Leafs deserve a better GM?

I miss a good Flyers / Leaf game.

It feels like it hasn't existed since Sundin / Cujo.

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12-04-2010, 08:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Since when does what you say become fact? He has had one season in the NHL potting 35 points. This year he is on pace for around 45. I hate people that spout opinion as fact. Look i'm a JVR fan, i think he will become a good player in this league, but don't presume anything. You want a quote. Presumtion is the mother of all **** ups.

Would i take two (likely top 5) picks for JVR, Yes, yes i would. Not because JVR is a bad player, but the flyers don't need him this year, it opens up a little wiggle room for a deadline deal, and the flyers get a little security down the line for prospects. Not to mention that Z moves into his position. It's not like we would be losing any production.
big steven segal fan i see.

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12-04-2010, 08:49 AM
  #119
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Here's what I don't understand about people on this board. Everyone overvalues picks SO MUCH. Yes, they can help you build your team, but there are simply no guarantees that the kid you draft (even at #1 or #2) will ever make any impact, not to mention that there is also no guarantee of the pick being a lottery pick...obviously there is a good chance, but it is not written in stone. Here you are saying trade JVR for picks. JVR was a top 2 pick who you would unload for two picks. JVR is only 21 years old and is already in the NHL and playing fairly well. You trade for those two picks and Maybe in 5 years you have a player of that caliber. MAYBE. Or you could get two more JVRs who you would trade away. Or you could get Sidney Crosby. The point is, the Flyers already have JVR. He will be a solid 60 point guy for a long time in this league with potential for more. Trading him for picks would be incredibly foolish. I have said this so many times on this board and no one seems to agree, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
Cartoon version of what you are talking about.



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12-04-2010, 08:54 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Since when does what you say become fact? He has had one season in the NHL potting 35 points. This year he is on pace for around 45. I hate people that spout opinion as fact. Look i'm a JVR fan, i think he will become a good player in this league, but don't presume anything. You want a quote. Presumtion is the mother of all **** ups.

Would i take two (likely top 5) picks for JVR, Yes, yes i would. Not because JVR is a bad player, but the flyers don't need him this year, it opens up a little wiggle room for a deadline deal, and the flyers get a little security down the line for prospects. Not to mention that Z moves into his position. It's not like we would be losing any production.
I wasn't really stating it as fact. Sure, I didn't say "IMO" or "I believe" before the sentence, but I think it is pretty obvious that it was an opinion because it was a statement about the future that is highly speculative. I apologize if you didn't understand that. From now on I will be more clear. Let me try this again so I don't upset you.

"I BELIEVE he will be a solid 60 point guy for a long time in this league with potential for more."

That better?

As far as that bolded portion goes, isn't that stating an opinion as fact (by your logic)? Presumption is the mother of all **** ups. Maybe they do need JVR this season. Maybe the prospects they get will suck. Maybe Z won't move into his spot. Maybe his production will be lost.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but you call me out for do something and then you go and do it yourself in the very same post.

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12-04-2010, 10:43 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
Cartoon version of what you are talking about.


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12-04-2010, 11:03 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
Cartoon version of what you are talking about.
Never has a Family Guy quote been applied so perfectly to a real life scenario.

You deserve props.

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12-04-2010, 11:52 AM
  #123
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Lol. I was wondering what could be less than winning a dead fish.

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Never has a Family Guy quote been applied so perfectly to a real life scenario.

You deserve props.
Haha thanks .

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12-04-2010, 11:59 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
Cartoon version of what you are talking about.

I prefer this commercial to sum it up.


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12-04-2010, 03:23 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
dont want to beat a dead horse but... whether people like to hear it or not, when he is compared to kane (which is the closest and best comparison) JVR is an utter failure so far. unless the talent drop off from first to second was that great, JVR really needs to kick it into gear. kane won them the ****ing cup. not to say jvr lost it for us, but he certainly didn't help that much. then again.. kyle turris certainly isn't setting any records either.

inb4 i get flamed
**** Patrick Kane. For real. **** em. There are a lot of players in the NHL better than JVR, and even more who are closer to their peak or who have fully developed their skill set.

Just because the two were drafted close to one another does not make one the measuring stick for the other. Kane was more ready to play in the NHL when he got drafted and he's further along in his development even now (IMO he's pretty much as good as he's going to get in most respects). Step away from the Kane comparisons and look at JVR's first couple of years with some perspective and you'll see he's doing just fine.

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