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Changes sooner than we think??

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Old
12-05-2010, 04:51 PM
  #1
cgychieffan
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Changes sooner than we think??

Apparently something is on the burner.... Sourced from Eklnd:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...d-soon/1/31929

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12-05-2010, 05:09 PM
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let me just add that this source has been almost dead-on regarding Calgary in the past, and while he wouldn't tell me anything more specific at this time, he did give me some hints and I am calling around in hopes of getting more to this rumor...

Stay tuned..
When was the last time he was dead-on about anything regarding Calgary? Or anything? This must be a new source (E5)

This is only plausible because we see that Harley is selling his shares, which would show he doesn't have confidence in the market. This is a clear message to the other owners, and should be a VERY clear message to Dutter and co. I'd give the Sutters until christmas to right the ship or they will all be moved.

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12-05-2010, 06:00 PM
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Eklund and reliable in the same sentence.... don't get it. Either way he did not even say anything just that 100% vague something might happen crap. Sure, something will happen, maybe the status quo, maybe a shake up.

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12-05-2010, 06:07 PM
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let me just add that this source has been almost dead-on regarding Calgary in the past, and while he wouldn't tell me anything more specific at this time, he did give me some hints and I am calling around in hopes of getting more to this rumor...

Stay tuned..


no it should read:let me add that this source has been almost dead-on regarding Calgary in the past, and while he wouldnt tell me anything more specific at this time, he did give some hints that just maybe, just maybe Calgary can win one more game this year. shhh dont tell anyone. I am calling around in hopes of getting more to this rumour.... wouldn't that be great if we could win

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12-05-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lordstanleychaser View Post
When was the last time he was dead-on about anything regarding Calgary? Or anything? This must be a new source (E5)
Jokinen the first time, lol... J-Bo building a house in Calgary 6 months before they got him....Sure that was all awhile ago but what have we done as big as J-Bo, since J-bo. (Phaneuf not included since NOBODY saw that coming. Had someone predicted that return, Flamed fans would have ripped them apart. "Not EVEN close", they would have cried.) I started a thread about "Is it time to rebuild" because I had a sense that it was and wanted more opinions about it. But I do believe the time is now. Logic dictates it.

Sure this team was built to contend for 2 more years, but the fact is, we're nowhere near contention anymore. Sad but true. So logically the next step is......

Iggy, Reggie, and likely Kipper should all be dealt soon. It'll suck for the next 2 or 3 years at least but if we don't...well we're going to suck for longer than that. The time is now, if the deals are there. Don't force anything but.....

Once again, sad but true.


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12-05-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by getoverit View Post
Quote:
let me just add that this source has been almost dead-on regarding Calgary in the past, and while he wouldn't tell me anything more specific at this time, he did give me some hints and I am calling around in hopes of getting more to this rumor...

Stay tuned..


no it should read:let me add that this source has been almost dead-on regarding Calgary in the past, and while he wouldnt tell me anything more specific at this time, he did give some hints that just maybe, just maybe Calgary can win one more game this year. shhh dont tell anyone. I am calling around in hopes of getting more to this rumour.... wouldn't that be great if we could win
That is probably about it

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12-05-2010, 06:48 PM
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Really, in regards to a possible rebuild, I wish it didn't need to be. But it seems it does. Eklund aside, the only thing I agree about to all of the defenders of our "current state" is that Sutter should have nothing to do with it. Only for that reason am I a fan of waiting untill the off-season to begin it. (Or firing Darryl now but I want Jim Nill...*fingers crossed but not holding my breath....please, please, please....)

Changes is NEEDED. I love Iggy, Reggie and Kipper but we NEED to move on. The place is here, the time is now. I hate myself for wanting this but, I'm slowly coming to terms with what must be.

Editing to add, each of Iggy, Reggie and Kipper have been perfect members of the Flames family for as long as they've been around and if we can't even compete for a cup any time soon, they deserve to move to somewhere where they can compete for a cup. They've sure as he** earned their shots. And since we won't be there against them anytime soon, I'll be cheering for them, no matter where they land.

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12-05-2010, 07:01 PM
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Yeah, also getting used to the idea of a rebuild. Sutter + rebuild = ****ed. I think Sutter if he is canned will be out by the end of January... gives a new GM a chance to start the rebuild at the deadline when players have their highest value (although only to buying teams).

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12-05-2010, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlames View Post
Yeah, also getting used to the idea of a rebuild. Sutter + rebuild = ****ed. I think Sutter if he is canned will be out by the end of January... gives a new GM a chance to start the rebuild at the deadline when players have their highest value (although only to buying teams).
I can't argue with anything you've said at all. I agree completely. I do think the time is right now to begin the rebuild. But I do not want Sutter to be in charge of it. I love that he took us from not contending to the cup finals. I love that he brought us Kipper. But since then, it's been a steady decline.

I jumped all over the Sutter band wagon in the first few years. But now I've fallen off of it and been run over by it a few times, I feel. lol. Phaneuf....all I can say about that is WTF!!!!! NOTHING coming back!!!??? Ughhh. It's like me telling the Pens...."Okay, we want Malkin but for him we'll give you Stajan, Pardy, Jackman, and Bourque. And let me add that we really like Bourque." Deal???

Again, I want Jim Nill and nothing else. Best GM available. But still, not holding my breath. I doubt it'll happen but my Christmas can be in June or July if that'll get us Nill.

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12-05-2010, 07:50 PM
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That statement is so completely vague its stupid.

It could mean Hotchkiss selling his shares, someone signing, someone moving a trash can or a new physio guy in the staff. Sheesh.

Its like trying to kill a cow with a nuclear missile fired just north of Calgary, you're bound to get something.

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Old
12-05-2010, 08:46 PM
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Question - Are rebuild trades (the sort where one trades say, Regehr, Iginla, and *possibly* Kiprusoff) best done mid-season, deadline, or off-season?

I know that deadline deals = lower temporary cap hit for other teams, but is that mostly it and it wouldn't matter otherwise?

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12-05-2010, 09:11 PM
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If and when anything big happens the schedule of the team will dictate it.

Right now the team will fly back tonight. A Monday morning firing of the Sutter brothers and naming Feaster/McGill as interim GM/coach would give them a practice and press conference before the Tampa game Tuesday.

If it doesn't happen this week then next week you have a home game with Columbus on a Monday then another home game against Toronto on the Thursday. After the Columbus game would be another ideal time.

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12-05-2010, 10:05 PM
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The owners - I remember reading in a column last summer that the Flames owners were split on keeping Daryl Sutter.

Now with Hotchkiss selling his shares and Murray Edwards rumored to get most of them it would depend on who were the hawks (in favor of firing) and who were the doves (in favor of keeping).

If Edwards was a hawk and Hotchkiss was a dove I would think the Sutters' ship has already sailed, it would just be a matter of time.

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12-05-2010, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Keys View Post
Question - Are rebuild trades (the sort where one trades say, Regehr, Iginla, and *possibly* Kiprusoff) best done mid-season, deadline, or off-season?

I know that deadline deals = lower temporary cap hit for other teams, but is that mostly it and it wouldn't matter otherwise?
I vote for trade deadline... players have highest values then.

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12-05-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keys View Post
Question - Are rebuild trades (the sort where one trades say, Regehr, Iginla, and *possibly* Kiprusoff) best done mid-season, deadline, or off-season?

I know that deadline deals = lower temporary cap hit for other teams, but is that mostly it and it wouldn't matter otherwise?
I would prefer the trades mid-season, as there is no point risking going on a 5 game winning streak when your hopes and dreams ride on getting an early lottery pick. Besides, many of our tradable assets are under contract for another season, making the potential deals different from your typical deadline deal anyway.

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12-05-2010, 11:17 PM
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I would say the deadline is the best, GM's go crazy that day to gear up their rosters for the playoffs (ie. like trading Johnson and a 3rd for Staios lol). Players value are the highest at that time.

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12-05-2010, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keys View Post
Question - Are rebuild trades (the sort where one trades say, Regehr, Iginla, and *possibly* Kiprusoff) best done mid-season, deadline, or off-season?

I know that deadline deals = lower temporary cap hit for other teams, but is that mostly it and it wouldn't matter otherwise?
Honestly, it depends on what kind of return you're looking for. Trade deadline deals will typically give you more futures, but are a whole lot harder to pull off if the guy you're trying to trade has more years left on his deal.

The thing to understand about deadline deals is that on one hand you have contending teams looking specifically for rentals; guys who can come in and help them for the next month or more without hurting the cap next year and without hurting their chances for a cup that season. On the other, you have sellers who are strictly wanting to both shed salary and get younger. The buyer in this case usually isn't willing to let go of pieces that are helping right now; they would rather move their prospects or picks because that doesn't hurt their chances right now. The players that fit that mold for the Flames right now are Staois, Morrisson, Babchuk, Glencross and Tanguay. UFA's that could be had for futures without creating future cap concerns.

The only big money player with years left on his contract that was moved in a deadline deal post lockout was Brad Richards and the return was pretty bad (Jussi Jokinen, Jeff Halpern, Mike Smith and 4th). In fact, the other 2 star players moved at the deadline have provided pretty bad returns too. Hossa was had for a 1st, Esposito, Armstrong and Christenson. Kovalchuk was had for a 1st, Cormier, Oduya and Bergfors. No real great pieces there. Even going back to the Thornton deal, the return was terrible. You just don't see mid season or deadline deals where the team sending out the star player wins.

In off-season deals, teams are far more likely to be willing to move young pieces in deals for players with big cap hits or multiple years left on their contract. Whether it be because of a disappointing playoffs or because they want to go in a new direction, teams will be wanting to make changes and most teams with sane GM's make those changes in the off-season and not mid season because they more time to deal with the cap issues. Look at the Phanuef deal. Had he been moved in the 09 off-season, the Flames could have had Heatley, Had it been made in the 2010 off season, Spezza might have been had. In both cases, you had a disgruntled player and a GM wanting to make a change that wouldn't have happened mid season. But because Phaneuf was traded in January, the prospective trading partners was restricted to teams that a) Were doing badly and needed to make a change, meaning you were going to acquire losers and b) Teams that had cap space, which most contending teams don't have.

In my opinion, if Kiprusoff, Iginla, Regehr or Bouwmeester are moved, it'd be better in the off-season. Especially Iginla who could garner a Pronger like return if moved at the right time. Everyone else would be okay for trade-deadline or mid season move.

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12-05-2010, 11:46 PM
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Honestly, it depends on what kind of return you're looking for. Trade deadline deals will typically give you more futures, but are a whole lot harder to pull off if the guy you're trying to trade has more years left on his deal.

The thing to understand about deadline deals is that on one hand you have contending teams looking specifically for rentals; guys who can come in and help them for the next month or more without hurting the cap next year and without hurting their chances for a cup that season. On the other, you have sellers who are strictly wanting to both shed salary and get younger. The buyer in this case usually isn't willing to let go of pieces that are helping right now; they would rather move their prospects or picks because that doesn't hurt their chances right now. The players that fit that mold for the Flames right now are Staois, Morrisson, Babchuk, Glencross and Tanguay. UFA's that could be had for futures without creating future cap concerns.

The only big money player with years left on his contract that was moved in a deadline deal post lockout was Brad Richards and the return was pretty bad (Jussi Jokinen, Jeff Halpern, Mike Smith and 4th). In fact, the other 2 star players moved at the deadline have provided pretty bad returns too. Hossa was had for a 1st, Esposito, Armstrong and Christenson. Kovalchuk was had for a 1st, Cormier, Oduya and Bergfors. No real great pieces there. Even going back to the Thornton deal, the return was terrible. You just don't see mid season or deadline deals where the team sending out the star player wins.

In off-season deals, teams are far more likely to be willing to move young pieces in deals for players with big cap hits or multiple years left on their contract. Whether it be because of a disappointing playoffs or because they want to go in a new direction, teams will be wanting to make changes and most teams with sane GM's make those changes in the off-season and not mid season because they more time to deal with the cap issues. Look at the Phanuef deal. Had he been moved in the 09 off-season, the Flames could have had Heatley, Had it been made in the 2010 off season, Spezza might have been had. In both cases, you had a disgruntled player and a GM wanting to make a change that wouldn't have happened mid season. But because Phaneuf was traded in January, the prospective trading partners was restricted to teams that a) Were doing badly and needed to make a change, meaning you were going to acquire losers and b) Teams that had cap space, which most contending teams don't have.

In my opinion, if Kiprusoff, Iginla, Regehr or Bouwmeester are moved, it'd be better in the off-season. Especially Iginla who could garner a Pronger like return if moved at the right time. Everyone else would be okay for trade-deadline or mid season move.
Cool answer.

Plus you're a helluva poster - you write essays but at least they are decent ones. Great first 2 posts. Welcome to the boards.

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Old
12-05-2010, 11:48 PM
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I've got to think that whenever you get a 'good enough' deal, you take it. It's likely a months long process that involves talking to as many teams as you can, (ie; anyone who might have interest) and thereby building a sense for the actual market for said player.

Once you have a pretty solid idea of the best you can get for whichever player you're moving, then you decide on "the best" move for your position. IF the owners/GM are thinking rebuild, then you take the top value you can, whenevr that del can be closed.

The only failure here is deciding internally to rebuild and then waiting too long and missing your best value. It is a tough situation to be in and it's every bit as delicate. I don't envy the rebuilding teams, of course, but I personally feel ready to start celebrating signs of a brighter future.

I'd be looking for top prospects, young emerging talents and then first round picks, in that order, wherever applicable in this process. Anyone over 30 is of no value to me at this point.

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12-06-2010, 09:42 AM
  #20
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if it happens, and I say if, will not be till after Xmas. Flames are a class organization and wont play Scrouge


Quote:
Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
If and when anything big happens the schedule of the team will dictate it.

Right now the team will fly back tonight. A Monday morning firing of the Sutter brothers and naming Feaster/McGill as interim GM/coach would give them a practice and press conference before the Tampa game Tuesday.

If it doesn't happen this week then next week you have a home game with Columbus on a Monday then another home game against Toronto on the Thursday. After the Columbus game would be another ideal time.

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