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Leafs after JVR per Timmy P

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Old
12-05-2010, 04:11 PM
  #151
BringBackStevens
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Originally Posted by Pillow View Post
Oiler fan here coming in peace.

Who would you rather have in JVR or Gagner (who went 6th overall in that same draft)?

I know these two play completely different styles, but I'm just curious as to what you guys think of Gagner and JVR.
JVR for sure. Gagner is a good player but he doesn't have that high of a ceiling, IMO.

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Old
12-05-2010, 08:30 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, he's gotten terribly overrated. A gifted offensive player, and fun to watch with the puck... but an empty shirt in a lot of other areas of the game. If JVR develops into a 30-30-60 average guy, it's quite possible he'll be just as, if not more valuable as a player.
Which one has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as a direct result of his play?

It's "quite possible" he'll be MORE valuable? He'll what... win two Stanley Cups as a Flyer?

It was quite possible JVR wouldn't be here and Kane would be. It's okay for people to dwell on counterfactuals. It isn't stupid. In the same way if you had a chance to shoot around with Clarke it would be awesome, but then you show up and it's Michael York. What could have been. There is logic in being annoyed at that. And York's Not-Clarkness would be obnoxious.

Faux logic is cute though.

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12-05-2010, 08:36 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Which one has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as a direct result of his play?

It's "quite possible" he'll be MORE valuable? He'll what... win two Stanley Cups as a Flyer?

It was quite possible JVR wouldn't be here and Kane would be. It's okay for people to dwell on counterfactuals. It isn't stupid. In the same way if you had a chance to shoot around with Clarke it would be awesome, but then you show up and it's Michael York. What could have been. There is logic in being annoyed at that. And York's Not-Clarkness would be obnoxious.

Faux logic is cute though.
I'd say the irony here is delicious, but it's really vomit inducing.

It's entirely illogical to compare them, particularly to the length you do. But I guess someone has to be the crazy guy at the previously unthinkable end of the spectrum.

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Old
12-05-2010, 08:40 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Which one has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as a direct result of his play?

It's "quite possible" he'll be MORE valuable? He'll what... win two Stanley Cups as a Flyer?

It was quite possible JVR wouldn't be here and Kane would be. It's okay for people to dwell on counterfactuals. It isn't stupid. In the same way if you had a chance to shoot around with Clarke it would be awesome, but then you show up and it's Michael York. What could have been. There is logic in being annoyed at that. And York's Not-Clarkness would be obnoxious.

Faux logic is cute though.
Hmmm.

Yeah, no.

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Old
12-05-2010, 08:52 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Which one has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as a direct result of his play?

It's "quite possible" he'll be MORE valuable? He'll what... win two Stanley Cups as a Flyer?

It was quite possible JVR wouldn't be here and Kane would be. It's okay for people to dwell on counterfactuals. It isn't stupid. In the same way if you had a chance to shoot around with Clarke it would be awesome, but then you show up and it's Michael York. What could have been. There is logic in being annoyed at that. And York's Not-Clarkness would be obnoxious.

Faux logic is cute though.
Rubbing alcohol, eh?

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Old
12-05-2010, 09:20 PM
  #156
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Which one has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as a direct result of his play?

It's "quite possible" he'll be MORE valuable? He'll what... win two Stanley Cups as a Flyer?

It was quite possible JVR wouldn't be here and Kane would be. It's okay for people to dwell on counterfactuals. It isn't stupid. In the same way if you had a chance to shoot around with Clarke it would be awesome, but then you show up and it's Michael York. What could have been. There is logic in being annoyed at that. And York's Not-Clarkness would be obnoxious.

Faux logic is cute though.
Is there something wrong with you?

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Old
12-05-2010, 09:23 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Yep. To me Kane is Briere. Good and valuable player but one dimensional and useless in some areas of the game
Briere is probably the better player of the two IMO. Kane has a lot of time to make up ground though.

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Old
12-05-2010, 10:25 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Is there something wrong with you?
If you look closely at his head, you can see the wire hanger marks where the abortion just didn't take.

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Old
12-06-2010, 12:27 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Briere is probably the better player of the two IMO. Kane has a lot of time to make up ground though.
and briere is one of the most important players on our team.. so the people comparing kane to briere as if it is a bad thing are just dumb IMO

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Old
12-06-2010, 09:34 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
dont want to beat a dead horse but... whether people like to hear it or not, when he is compared to kane (which is the closest and best comparison) JVR is an utter failure so far. unless the talent drop off from first to second was that great, JVR really needs to kick it into gear. kane won them the ****ing cup. not to say jvr lost it for us, but he certainly didn't help that much. then again.. kyle turris certainly isn't setting any records either.

inb4 i get flamed
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
You have to take into account that every player develops differently. Big lanky kids like JVR take longer to fill out and find their game than guys like Kane. JVR is what, 21? It's way too early to worry about it. Kane is just a great little player, JVR will be, you just have to have some patience. He's got amazing hands and vision, along with speed, size and a good attitude. You get glimpses of what he will be quite often now, and another 10 pounds heavier next year he'll be even better.

It's like all the people on here who declared that Nodl had no offensive skill or game and that he was destined to only check, whereas others of us saw his hands and hockey sense two years ago and realized it might just take some time and some confidence for him to find his talent in the NHL game. Right now, he's showing excellent offensive instincts, scoring nice goals and getting better all the time. Lucky we didn't jettison him two years ago because he didn't enter the NHL fully formed as an offensive star.
Kane was also thown onto a bad team as a #1 draft pick and giving a primary role. JvR is being brought along at a different pace, I do not think that over the short haul JvR is going to put up the same numbers but over his career I do not think JvR will be far off. Kane is counted on to be the scorer and has been since his arrival. JvR is just an additional piece to a team right now and over the next two years will be relied on to lend a supporting scoring role(25-35-60pts). I can already see some development in his play at the NHL level by getting in along the boards and getting his nose a little dirty by using the body on the boards and in front of the net.

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Old
12-06-2010, 09:54 AM
  #161
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Kane will be in his decline by the time JVR is entering his prime.

The lottery worked out perfectly for both teams because Chicago needed a star immediately (because they were brutal) and we needed a star for the future (because we are stacked).

If anyone is bitter about Chicago beating us, they should be bitter that we handed them Patrick Sharp for nothing. At least Kane was out of our direct control.

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Old
12-06-2010, 10:00 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Agreed. This is like *****ing because Zach Parise is better than Jeff Carter. Who cares?
Well, not to turn this into a Carter vs Parise thread, but I would much rather prefer Parise over Carter in the draft. As a matter of fact of the players in the top 30 in the draft I would also include...: Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, and Ryan Kesler.

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Old
12-06-2010, 10:17 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
The lottery worked out perfectly for both teams because Chicago needed a star immediately (because they were brutal) and we needed a star for the future (because we are stacked).
Err, we did finish last place when the JVR pick happened. We weren't really stacked just yet, and there was some ambiguity how the team would perform the next year. They hadn't signed Briere yet and the trade with Edmonton for Smith and Lupul was also yet to be done. There is a probable chance that the Flyers would have taken Kane, had they won the lottery.


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Old
12-06-2010, 10:38 AM
  #164
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Err, we did finish last place when the JVR pick happened. We weren't really stacked just yet, and there was some ambiguity how the team would perform the next year. They hadn't signed Briere yet and the trade with Edmonton for Smith and Lupul was also yet to be done. There is a probable chance that the Flyers would have taken Kane, had they won the lottery.
Despite our last place finish, based on cap space and the players in our system we were in a much better position then Chicago was.

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Old
12-06-2010, 10:44 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Despite our last place finish, based on cap space and the players in our system we were in a much better position then Chicago was.
That may be, but I would still call it a reach to declare the Flyers "stacked" as they were going into the 2007 NHL entry draft.

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12-06-2010, 10:47 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Err, we did finish last place when the JVR pick happened. We weren't really stacked just yet, and there was some ambiguity how the team would perform the next year. They hadn't signed Briere yet and the trade with Edmonton for Smith and Lupul was also yet to be done. There is a probable chance that the Flyers would have taken Kane, had they won the lottery.
We had all the pieces in the making, though. Sure we went and picked up Briere and Hartnell, but our offensive 'core' of Richards, Giroux, Umberger, Carter, etc. were already in the system and about to come into their own. Sure that couldn't have been expected, but it is what came to pass, so in retrospect it worked out better for us to have a late bloomer still on a ELC in 2010 than a shine bright, fizzle quick guy like Kane making 6.3M this season.

Think about it, if we draft Kane and still go after Briere, Timonen and Hartnell, give Richards his contract and trade for Pronger, we couldn't possibly keep the team together as currently constructed.

Who knows, maybe Giroux ends up being the cap casuality?

We certainly can't sit here and say we would have won the cup last year if we had Kane (unless, of course, you do so just to take him away from Chicago ) because our team would have been completely different.

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