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Old
12-06-2010, 01:33 PM
  #26
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Can the powerplay realistically get worse?
We all know the PP should be performing better but even still t was worse in 08-09 when Robidas and Modano ran it, so yes it can get worse. Stars are actually middle of the pack so far this year in PP, with Florida coming in at an abysmal 8%. In 08-09 4 teams had a worse PP% than the Stars.

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12-06-2010, 03:30 PM
  #27
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It would really depend on the return for Richards.

If NYR parts with Stephan, McDonagh, Rozsival and a 1st for Richards and Daley or Niskanen then its not so bad.

Stephan centering Neal and Eriksson is a step back but the kid is very talented and playing with those two will make it easier. Rozsival for all the flac he receives is a definite step up from Daley and/or Niskanen. McDonagh as an injury replacement instead of rushing Larsen is a good thing and he replaces Skrastins next year.

I can't say we'll fly through the rest of the season or make huge waves in the playoffs but I for one cannot accept going to June without Richards having an extension. I want this team to make the playoffs and do well but quite frankly this team will take a huge step back if Richards walks for nothing. That's the bottom line no matter where we are in the standings or how we preform down the stretch. Ask Florida if they'd do it all over again with Boumeester. Star players with trade deadline value have to be maximized despite potential short term pitfalls.

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12-06-2010, 03:37 PM
  #28
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His name is Stepan.

If we're in about the same position standings-wise before the deadline you have to keep him and go for it, regardless of the status of ownership.

Florida with J-Bo was basically in the position we were in last year -- on the bubble, and with an honest evaluation of themselves they should've known they weren't a playoff team.

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12-06-2010, 04:15 PM
  #29
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Yeah, I don't think we can take another Stephan after what happened with the last one.

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12-06-2010, 04:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
His name is Stepan.

If we're in about the same position standings-wise before the deadline you have to keep him and go for it, regardless of the status of ownership.

Florida with J-Bo was basically in the position we were in last year -- on the bubble, and with an honest evaluation of themselves they should've known they weren't a playoff team.
I disagree with that statement. This team isn't as good as its current winning streak nor as bad as its 3+ game losing streak earlier this season. Obviously a much better indication as to where this team is will be settled by the deadline but even if they're in the playoffs they have to have an extension with Richards or get him to waive his NTC. Now if he won't waive that's one thing, the Kaberle will he/won't he saga, right here in Dallas which changes everything.

This team is good but does not have the pieces nor the money to replace Richards from within without a trade. There's no surefire center in our organization. Some people think Benn is okay there but from what I've seen he's better on the wing. There's no Stepan or Anisimov in our org. Wandell has proven speedy and defensively above average but has not shown an NHL scoring touch nor done much of anything this year to earn above 4th line minutes. Roman isn't special and there's basically no one else.

Everyone wants instant gratification and demands that Dallas make the playoffs this year but really this defense isn't light years better than last years nor is there any guarantee this roll will continue. For me 4 or 5 playoff dates won't justify missing an opportunity to significantly improve the team for the long term future. Stepan and McDonagh would be our best prospects, even better than Campbell and would be a huge step forward next year and for the subsequent six they're under team control. (obviously there's no telling if they'll stay healthy or perform like Neal, Benn, and Eriksson have but...)

You can't guarantee me they'd make the playoffs and win a round with Richards and I can't guarantee you they'd miss or that those kids in the future will clinch a spot starting next year but my odds and window are open longer than yours. I imagine I'm in the minority as far as fans go but I do wonder how those whose job it is to weigh now versus the future feel about this debate.

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12-06-2010, 04:42 PM
  #31
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I disagree with that statement. This team isn't as good as its current winning streak nor as bad as its 3+ game losing streak earlier this season. Obviously a much better indication as to where this team is will be settled by the deadline but even if they're in the playoffs they have to have an extension with Richards or get him to waive his NTC. Now if he won't waive that's one thing, the Kaberle will he/won't he saga, right here in Dallas which changes everything.

This team is good but does not have the pieces nor the money to replace Richards from within without a trade. There's no surefire center in our organization. Some people think Benn is okay there but from what I've seen he's better on the wing. There's no Stepan or Anisimov in our org. Wandell has proven speedy and defensively above average but has not shown an NHL scoring touch nor done much of anything this year to earn above 4th line minutes. Roman isn't special and there's basically no one else.

Everyone wants instant gratification and demands that Dallas make the playoffs this year but really this defense isn't light years better than last years nor is there any guarantee this roll will continue. For me 4 or 5 playoff dates won't justify missing an opportunity to significantly improve the team for the long term future. Stepan and McDonagh would be our best prospects, even better than Campbell and would be a huge step forward next year and for the subsequent six they're under team control. (obviously there's no telling if they'll stay healthy or perform like Neal, Benn, and Eriksson have but...)

You can't guarantee me they'd make the playoffs and win a round with Richards and I can't guarantee you they'd miss or that those kids in the future will clinch a spot starting next year but my odds and window are open longer than yours. I imagine I'm in the minority as far as fans go but I do wonder how those whose job it is to weigh now versus the future feel about this debate.
While I'm sure most fans would like playoffs it isn't really an expectation, at least it wasn't this summer. With the amount of people who were sporting the Slide for Larsson avatars I'd say the majority of Stars fans didn't expect the Stars to make playoffs. It isn't really the fans that are demanding making playoffs so much as from a financial standpoint the Stars very much need to make playoffs just to try to limit the amount of financial losses this year. It isn't really about the long term direction of the team so much as the Stars desperately need that playoff revenue and from that point I think that Joe would be forced to hold on to Richards if the Stars are sniffing at a playoff spot.

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12-06-2010, 04:43 PM
  #32
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...
McDonagh wouldn't be our best prospect. Not even close. Stepan very well might though.

I don't think you're appreciating how dire the situation is in general. The Stars need to make the playoffs again. Soon.

I say if they're in line for home ice advantage (1st-4th) by the deadline, you keep Richards without a second thought. A lot can happen over the next few months. Ownership could get resolved, all the problems could disappear in a puff of smoke. That's an acceptable risk to me. What isn't is keeping Richards if the team is on the bubble and stuck in the morass. Then we agree.

edit: I keep seeing this... so I'll clarify -- the Larsson avys were supposed to be sarcastic from the get go. Preemptive tanking is quintessentially HF ad absurdum.

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12-06-2010, 05:01 PM
  #33
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... but that wouldn't really achieve much in the way of balance amongst the forwards. Morrow will win more battles than Neal and get the puck on 63's tape allowing him more room, but Neal will finish more plays off.
I do think Morrow and Ribs still have something together, and you may be right that Morrow is the best LW for Ribeiro. I guess the main thing I was trying to get across is that I think Ribeiro could pick up the slack in the event that Richards isn't around for the rest of, or past this season. The best fit would probably be Morrow-Ribeiro-Loui. Does it go without saying that whichever line Eriksson is playing on should be considered the top line? In my mind yes.

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Originally Posted by Apple A Day Kari View Post
On the PP, I don't know if I agree that Richards is the top playmaker. Yes, he makes the most plays and touches the puck most often. I feel the only reason you have him back there is that quick release and quick pass. He has a knack for getting the puck through and surprising the opponent with the release. IMO Ribs would be ineffective in the roll Richards plays as PPQB...due his shot and his speed if he did get caught on a broken play. In much the same way, I think we are utilizing our best option in Ribs on the right side to initiate the play and create more down low.
I didn't really mean to say that Ribeiro would play the point, or QB the PP in the true definition of the term. But as things are currently, Richards gets the most touches on the PP, so he is kind of the de facto 'top playmaker' as it were. I think we're kind of saying the same thing. I do think that Ribeiro can rise to the occasion though, especially if the cast of characters he's lined up with are guys who play to his best attributes.


------

I didn't really know where to put this thought, and I realize the team is rolling right now so it doesn't really benefit the team a whole lot to switch things up significantly at the moment, but I figure this may be as good a place as any to put what I'm thinking .

James Neal had a monster game the other night; one of his best of the season I thought and it got me thinking. I know it's become near heresy to suggest breaking up the line of Neal-Richards-Eriksson, but I sometimes wonder if Neal wouldn't be better served playing on a line where he is more of a focal point. Specifically, I think Neal might be able to take his game to the next level and help spread around the team's offense if he were to play on a line where he carries the puck more. His game (especially his passing/playmaking ability) seems to feed off his carrying the puck up the ice with speed, something he doesn't get a chance to do very often playing with Richards.

I don't have any concrete ideas as far as the deployment of talent, and part of this would be semi-dependent upon Crawford utilizing Wandell a bit more, but off the top of my head I wonder what a top-9 like this could do...

X-Richards-Eriksson
Morrow-Ribeiro-X
Neal-Wandell-X

(*Players represented by X's = Benn, Ott, Burish [in the case of Burish on the 1st line, Eriksson could slide over to the left side])

Again, I realize the team is playing well at the moment. I'm not trying to fix what isn't broken per se, just spit-balling about how to keep making the team better. Also, I realize it may seem a little strange to start out by commending Neal only to bump him down the lineup, but I really do think we could see him become more of the alpha male that he's capable of being on a more consistent basis in a scenario where he finds himself being the best offensive player on his line. I also think that his and Wandell's talents lend themselves to possible chemistry.

Thoughts? Ridicule?


Last edited by glovesave_35: 12-06-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Old
12-06-2010, 05:34 PM
  #34
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Idk, Neal was pretty invisible last year when he was separated from Richards. I know its a new year and he's constantly developing though. I'd only be comfortable with him broken up if Benn's centering him. I just don't have faith in Wandell's offensive abilities whatsoever.

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12-06-2010, 06:22 PM
  #35
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McDonagh wouldn't be our best prospect. Not even close. Stepan very well might though.

I don't think you're appreciating how dire the situation is in general. The Stars need to make the playoffs again. Soon.

I say if they're in line for home ice advantage (1st-4th) by the deadline, you keep Richards without a second thought. A lot can happen over the next few months. Ownership could get resolved, all the problems could disappear in a puff of smoke. That's an acceptable risk to me. What isn't is keeping Richards if the team is on the bubble and stuck in the morass. Then we agree.

edit: I keep seeing this... so I'll clarify -- the Larsson avys were supposed to be sarcastic from the get go. Preemptive tanking is quintessentially HF ad absurdum.
The NHL is in control right now not Hicks. They want to sell the team to the highest bidder but are willing to wait to accommodate that wish. Heck the Buffalo Sabres just got an offer of 150m and they're unarguably in much worse shape than we are as far as core team going forward. Do TPTB who are pouring money into Dallas want them to make the playoffs? Yes. At the same time though they're aren't going to approve a three plus year deal for anyone, especially at 5+ million for Richards. (Lenders and appointees aren't going to want to make long term financial decisions for the franchise in the middle of a sale.) There's a balance to be struck. I think the sales process is closer to this time next year than it is by the end of the season. If that's true is the value of the franchise better off with a short playoff run but no Richards or no playoffs (maybe playoffs) Stepan, McDonagh and a 1st? There's probably some complicated statistical formula to determine that but I think there's a heck of a lot of wiggle room to debate for my side.

As for the value of McDonagh, Campbell gets the benefit of the doubt because other than Larsen there's really no one else. R. Smith, Chaisson, and Bachman are a distance behind. Campbell as a goalie though is far away and has struggled. Stepan is in the NHL and playing well. McDonagh is 21 and in his first season in the AHL after two years in college. He's 6'1", good skater, with decent offensive skills. Probably at best a 20-30 point guy in the NHL but has a mean streak. Luke Schenn like for an example. Best case scenario he's a shut down number one or two. More realistic scenario he's a 3/4th defenseman. Either way he's much closer to reaching that level than Campbell is and quite frankly Campbell may be a franchise goalie but so could Bachman or Besko both of whom are playing extremely well in the pros right now. Outside of Nemeth there's no one even remotely like McDonagh in the Stars system. Give me the defenseman we need who would be playing for us next year rather than the goalie three plus years out. Some disagree with that but Campbell isn't a homerun waiting to happen no matter what Niewendyk and the scouts say.

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12-06-2010, 06:50 PM
  #36
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I don't really get the point of your first paragraph. I'm aware of the situation. I'm saying that the possibility of the team getting sold to a new owner between February and July is worth holding on to Richards if you have the bonus of a likely (>80%) shot at the playoffs in your back pocket.

I don't consider Campbell our top prospect so...
Larsen is a better prospect than McDonagh IMO.

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12-06-2010, 08:34 PM
  #37
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I'm saying the likelihood of the team being sold in that time is less than even odds. At the trade deadline if there's no one to negotiate an extension they need to trade him if he'll waive his ntc. I don't like the the idea of getting things resolved when ownership hasn't even been changed in those few months. That's asking to basically loose Richards for nothing. This thing has dragged for months. Heck we don't even know who's really still in the process of doing their due diligence. Nothing in the last year has indicated this is actually progressing. Expecting that to change seems overly hopeful to the point of delusion.

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12-06-2010, 09:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
I don't think you're appreciating how dire the situation is in general. The Stars need to make the playoffs again. Soon.

I say if they're in line for home ice advantage (1st-4th) by the deadline, you keep Richards without a second thought. A lot can happen over the next few months. Ownership could get resolved, all the problems could disappear in a puff of smoke. That's an acceptable risk to me. What isn't is keeping Richards if the team is on the bubble and stuck in the morass. Then we agree.
Agreed. If the Stars are sitting pretty in the standings come trade deadline time it will be because the team is actually pretty good. Which means they may actually be able to do something in the postseason.

Hopefully we'll know more about the direction of the franchise when Tony Tavares takes over as club president. The X-factor in all of this is how the lenders want to approach growing their asset. If they've done their homework they should come to the conclusion that as far as hockey goes in this town, winning begets butts in seats, not vice versa. Getting our panties in a wad until we know how they plan to approach things with Richards and the potential of adding salary in other places is less than productive.

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12-06-2010, 09:33 PM
  #39
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Idk, Neal was pretty invisible last year when he was separated from Richards. I know its a new year and he's constantly developing though. I'd only be comfortable with him broken up if Benn's centering him. I just don't have faith in Wandell's offensive abilities whatsoever.
Neal got removed from the line because he was invisible, he wasn't invisible because he was separated from Richards.

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12-06-2010, 09:36 PM
  #40
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Neal got removed from the line because he was invisible, he wasn't invisible because he was separated from Richards.
IIRC he got removed from that line because they were horrible in the defensive end, I remember Craw putting Ott on the line after they were a combined -10 one night or something.

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12-06-2010, 09:59 PM
  #41
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Neal got removed from the line because he was invisible, he wasn't invisible because he was separated from Richards.
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IIRC he got removed from that line because they were horrible in the defensive end, I remember Craw putting Ott on the line after they were a combined -10 one night or something.
Both? That line was pretty bad defensively all year, especially on the road. Loui always did his part but he can't be the entire defensive conscience of his line. I'm pretty sure Neal got moved after one particularly terrible game defensively by that line that followed a string of poor games all around for that line. I can't remember, but common sense would seem to dictate that they weren't doing just a whole lot of scoring while they were collective double digit minuses.


My thing with maybe moving Neal is that I think it would spread the scoring around the top 9. I may be in the minority, but I really think the pigeon-holing of Wandell as some defensive specialist at the NHL level is borderline absurd. I just see way too many tools that lend to creating offense to say that he'll never score more than 20-40 points. When he plays with any linemates who have an ounce of offensive awareness and skill he looks like an almost completely different player than when he's out there with Barch and Petersen.

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12-06-2010, 10:02 PM
  #42
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IIRC he got removed from that line because they were horrible in the defensive end, I remember Craw putting Ott on the line after they were a combined -10 one night or something.
Not sure about the -10 stat but you're bang on with the defensive issue.

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12-06-2010, 10:54 PM
  #43
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Both? That line was pretty bad defensively all year, especially on the road. Loui always did his part but he can't be the entire defensive conscience of his line. I'm pretty sure Neal got moved after one particularly terrible game defensively by that line that followed a string of poor games all around for that line. I can't remember, but common sense would seem to dictate that they weren't doing just a whole lot of scoring while they were collective double digit minuses.


My thing with maybe moving Neal is that I think it would spread the scoring around the top 9. I may be in the minority, but I really think the pigeon-holing of Wandell as some defensive specialist at the NHL level is borderline absurd. I just see way too many tools that lend to creating offense to say that he'll never score more than 20-40 points. When he plays with any linemates who have an ounce of offensive awareness and skill he looks like an almost completely different player than when he's out there with Barch and Petersen.
Well yeah, it was both imo. He wasnt scoring enough to justify the poor defense on that line. Im all for splitting him from Richards at times. I don't think Neal needs Richards as much as others seem to.

I agree with your opinion on wandell hes definitely our best defensive center, but he has more to his game than that. I thought the line with him and ott was really good for awhile. It seemed like they got broken up largely because burish wasnt cutting it on the 2nd line. Ideally, we'd have two more scoring line RWers so we could have 3 lines that are legit threats every time they step onto the ice.

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12-19-2010, 12:05 PM
  #44
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So there's a report in the trades section of HF about Fistric losing favor with the team and that we might be trading him for scraps. I hope it's a bunch of ********, but I don't know if the website has a good rep or not. Either way, I'd be pissed if we gave him away.

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12-19-2010, 12:32 PM
  #45
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Fistric is our only real mean-streak Dman. For a team that was supposedly high on Mcilrath this draft it would make no sense.

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12-19-2010, 03:38 PM
  #46
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So there's a report in the trades section of HF about Fistric losing favor with the team and that we might be trading him for scraps. I hope it's a bunch of ********, but I don't know if the website has a good rep or not. Either way, I'd be pissed if we gave him away.
I saw that. I interpreted the "losing favor" quote as something to make the trade speculation seem more believable. I definitely wouldn't say that Fistric is on some no-trade list, and I could see them moving him to to Edmonton, but "losing favor" to me is something attitudinal or terrible-play related, which I simply don't believe either of those in this case.

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12-20-2010, 02:42 PM
  #47
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This is a spreadsheet tweeted by Mirtle that ranks teams based on goals scored by a team's defenseman. Yeah...Dallas doesn't fare very well, not that I would have thought they really would.

It is also extremely shocking for me to see where LA, PHI, BOS, NSH rank on there, didn't expect them to be that low.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...VA&hl=en#gid=0

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12-20-2010, 03:50 PM
  #48
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It's starting to look like my prediction of 10 points this season for Niskanen was overly generous.

If only he'd be given a chance on the PP... I mean, 77 minutes? That's all?

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01-02-2011, 08:41 PM
  #49
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I'm hoping to take in some of that southern weather for a weekend and maybe catch a Stars homestand. I was thinking Mar,9,11,13 with the Flames, Wild and Kings in Dallas...or the following weekend the 17 19 with the Flyers and Hawks in town. What would someone/anyone from Dallas suggest? Is one weekend better than the other for concert, special events venues?

ADD: Didn't want to make a thread for this and I'd likely receive an infraction if I posted anything Stars related in the Random chat thread...so...

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01-04-2011, 03:17 AM
  #50
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I don't want to bring this up again but it's new info.

So the NHL Network has this all access show regarding the Oilers, I think Oil Change 2.

Anyway it mentioned about a couple 3 way trades with Dallas/Tampa/Carolina/Buffalo that ended up falling through. The Oilers defenseman now in the minors with a "big shot" was mentioned as part of it.

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