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#29: Sharks @ Flyers - Wednesday, Dec. 8, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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12-09-2010, 02:46 AM
  #926
dookie88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Yeah, right

Zherdev is by far their best shooter and dangler, but they just refuse to recognize this.

Zherdev is also one of their best offensive players, but they refuse to recognize this either.
Zherdev is better than Ovechkin. Period.


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12-09-2010, 06:04 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Yeah, right

Zherdev is by far their best shooter and dangler, but they just refuse to recognize this.
Riiiight.

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12-09-2010, 06:27 AM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
That is true. This team should never give up a 1 goal lead in the 3rd, let alone a huge lead.

Bad call? Kill the ****ing penalty. No call? Score even strength.
I get this to a point, but that's tough to say when the Sharks are playing pre-lockout D in their end and we are getting whistled for everything in our end.

I mean, it's all well and good to say, "score at ES", but when you are getting tackled (this literally happened 2 or 3 times with no call), how much are you supposed to do?

The goals still happened due to bad Flyers mistakes, but the officiating in the 3rd period and OT was just ridiculously one-sided and certainly played a part.

The whole forwards thing on the PK needs to be addressed though, they are cheating way too much and we're starting to get burned.

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12-09-2010, 07:29 AM
  #929
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Seems like UFC saying "Never leave it in the hands of the judges" fits in NHL nowdays.

Disgraceful refereeing. So many non-calls against Sharks that you have to wonder how much Sharks had paid to those referees Only in overtime there should been 2 or 3 penalties to Sharks but nothing was whistled. Very poor referees.

"Never leave it in the hands of the referees"

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Old
12-09-2010, 07:57 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Yeah, right

Zherdev is by far their best shooter and dangler, but they just refuse to recognize this.

Zherdev is also one of their best offensive players, but they refuse to recognize this either.
This may be the funniest thing I've ever read.

Zherdev is the one that isn't recognizing it. He can dangle, but when he tries to dangle through 3 defenders vs. passing, that's something that makes you a 3rd liner instead of a 1st liner.

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12-09-2010, 07:58 AM
  #931
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Also, I left for my hockey game at the end of the 2nd. WTF happened?

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12-09-2010, 08:07 AM
  #932
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The rushkie goes down way to early and is on his knees too much. He leaves that top half of the net way to open.That is a problem they need to rectify. Teams are goign to exploit that every chance they get.

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12-09-2010, 08:15 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Also, I left for my hockey game at the end of the 2nd. WTF happened?
Lazy penalties. Six minutes of stickwork from Danny Briere in the offensive zone. His usual stuff that seems to happen in third periods (see Caps game).

The team got lazy in general and the refs decided to start calling penalties. Refs certainly didn't help, but the Flyers didn't deserve that game. The Sharks also shot high at Bob the whole night...and a few started to go in.

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12-09-2010, 08:44 AM
  #934
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I wish Lavi would just beat a few of the Flyers with a stick.

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12-09-2010, 09:11 AM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
This may be the funniest thing I've ever read.

Zherdev is the one that isn't recognizing it. He can dangle, but when he tries to dangle through 3 defenders vs. passing, that's something that makes you a 3rd liner instead of a 1st liner.
I think you guys just are in denial. Facing reality would be just too painful for your Bobby Clarke-infused egos. If you weren't afraid, you would look at the stats at nhl.com (know this site?) and see that the "turnover machine" Zherdev has far less giveaways than any other scoring forward on this team. He also has far more ES goals than any forward on this team per a minute played. He draws more penalties than almost everybody on this team. And when he is playing on a scoring line he creates chances for other people.

Yeah, and by the way, he is the only guy who scored in the last couple of shootouts. Giroux missed twice. Brieer missed twice...

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12-09-2010, 09:18 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I think you guys just are in denial. Facing reality would be just too painful for your Bobby Clarke-infused egos. If you weren't afraid, you would look at the stats at nhl.com (know this site?) and see that the "turnover machine" Zherdev has far less giveaways than any other scoring forward on this team. He also has far more ES goals than any forward on this team per a minute played. He draws more penalties than almost everybody on this team. And when he is playing on a scoring line he creates chances for other people.

Yeah, and by the way, he is the only guy who scored in the last couple of shootouts. Giroux missed twice. Brieer missed twice...
Watch. More. Flyers.

That's all I can really respond to this with logically...you're right though, Zherdev has been a picture of consistency and puck management

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12-09-2010, 09:28 AM
  #937
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I think you guys just are in denial. Facing reality would be just too painful for your Bobby Clarke-infused egos. If you weren't afraid, you would look at the stats at nhl.com (know this site?) and see that the "turnover machine" Zherdev has far less giveaways than any other scoring forward on this team. He also has far more ES goals than any forward on this team per a minute played. He draws more penalties than almost everybody on this team. And when he is playing on a scoring line he creates chances for other people.

Yeah, and by the way, he is the only guy who scored in the last couple of shootouts. Giroux missed twice. Brieer missed twice...
Oh get over it already. There's a reason why you're the very small minority here.

It isn't how many giveaways he has, it's the nature of them. Every time he attempts to dangle into the zone and fails (which is about 95% of the time), he leaves us open for an odd-man rush.

There's no denying he has skill. He has to pick his battles better. Both him and Giroux are guilty of the failed through-the-legs no look passes.

There's a reason why he is on the 4th line.

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12-09-2010, 09:28 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I think you guys just are in denial. Facing reality would be just too painful for your Bobby Clarke-infused egos. If you weren't afraid, you would look at the stats at nhl.com (know this site?) and see that the "turnover machine" Zherdev has far less giveaways than any other scoring forward on this team. He also has far more ES goals than any forward on this team per a minute played. He draws more penalties than almost everybody on this team. And when he is playing on a scoring line he creates chances for other people.

Yeah, and by the way, he is the only guy who scored in the last couple of shootouts. Giroux missed twice. Brieer missed twice...
He's done very well scoring goals in his minutes.

You know what other stats are true to his name?

He has 0.20 primary assists per 60 minutes. The only players lower are O'Donnell (0.14), Shelley (0), and Bartulis (0).

Zherdev has yet to register a secondary assist.

Zherdev is 18th on the team in +/- per 60 minutes.

Zherdev is 18th in GFON/60.

So, essentially, Zherdev hasn't played well with others (thus the paucity of assists), and compared to the rest of the team he doesn't deserve minutes because everyone else is contributing more towards beating the other team (+/- per 60).

I think you are in denial.

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12-09-2010, 09:35 AM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He's done very well scoring goals in his minutes.

You know what other stats are true to his name?

He has 0.20 primary assists per 60 minutes. The only players lower are O'Donnell (0.14), Shelley (0), and Bartulis (0).

Zherdev has yet to register a secondary assist.

Zherdev is 18th on the team in +/- per 60 minutes.

Zherdev is 18th in GFON/60.

So, essentially, Zherdev hasn't played well with others (thus the paucity of assists), and compared to the rest of the team he doesn't deserve minutes because everyone else is contributing more towards beating the other team (+/- per 60).

I think you are in denial.
zherdev has also been shuffled around more than anyone imo and hasnt had consistent line mates. that is contributing to his lack of assist.

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12-09-2010, 09:38 AM
  #940
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zherdev has also been shuffled around more than anyone imo and hasnt had consistent line mates. that is contributing to his lack of assist.
It really doesn't. While It will affect his production, Zherdev isn't big on passing the puck in the offensive zone... and that nixes any chance for assists. You should be getting secondary assists by accident if you're playing within the team system and moving the puck.

Only players on the team that have not registered a secondary assist: Zherdev, Powe, and Carcillo. [Editor's note: Powe has 1.42 primary assists per 60, by far the highest rate on the team] Powe is a guy that just goes to the net, so that isn't particularly shocking. Carcillo... is Carcillo.

If Zherdev is such a talented offensive player, he should be picking up more assists on this club. There are more than enough goals being scored.

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12-09-2010, 09:42 AM
  #941
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It really doesn't. While It will affect his production, Zherdev isn't big on passing the puck in the offensive zone... and that nixes any chance for assists. You should be getting secondary assists by accident if you're playing within the team system and moving the puck.
he isnt big on passing i agree, having betts and shelley doesnt help though. having more consistent line mates with skill would then allow him to trust them more. Then be more comfortable passing.

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12-09-2010, 09:44 AM
  #942
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I made a similar proposition in the thread on the main board discussing the game. However, I don't think it should be relevant as to whether the puck had passed the goaltender or not. What should matter is when the puck was propelled.

Anyway, I only got two responses before the thread was closed down for the troll-fest it had become.

One was a fellow Flyers fan who simply answered "no.." without reason or expalanation.

The other was a random dude whose logic went along the lines off "no, that's too similar to what the NBA does, and since the NBA sucks, this must suck too". If I'd get a dollar every time I find someone committing a logical fallacy, I'd be a multi-billionaire by now.
Sorry, have to disagree. The puck has to be over the line before the time runs out. It's a good rule. Unlike basketball, where someone usually shoots the ball, in hockey there are a lot of different ways pucks find their way into the net. Pucks bounce in off goalies, off Dmen, off forwards' butts, it's not all clean shots.

Do you really want to see the Penguins get the benefit of a 'continuation' call when Crosby shoots just before the buzzer, the puck rattles off 5 guys and slips over the line 2 seconds after the green light is on?

Didn't think so.

Puck was clearly outside the goal line, clock was 0:00. No goal.

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12-09-2010, 09:44 AM
  #943
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And just to address the line combination situation. Here are Zherdev's top even strength line setups:

Quote:
16.48% EV 15 NODL,ANDREAS - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
13.64% EV 17 CARTER,JEFF - 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
10.42% EV 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
10.04% EV 18 RICHARDS,MIKE - 21 VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
9.73% EV 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
7.51% EV 11 BETTS,BLAIR - 45 SHELLEY,JODY - 93 ZHERDEV,NIKOLAI
A full 50% of his shifts are taken with very good offensive players before we get to the 4th line combination... and that's not accounting for all the goofy ones that will be below there.

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12-09-2010, 09:51 AM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And just to address the line combination situation. Here are Zherdev's top even strength line setups:



A full 50% of his shifts are taken with very good offensive players before we get to the 4th line combination... and that's not accounting for all the goofy ones that will be below there.
not consistently though. how many games has he had the same line mates forr? Even during the games has he ever had a consistent lien for the whoel 60 minutes?

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12-09-2010, 09:54 AM
  #945
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12-09-2010, 09:55 AM
  #946
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Quick synopsis : Lavi lets Carter take the faceoff in the final 8 seconds of the first, he hasn't played center in a month, gets cleaned by thornton and it is in the net. Reckless shifts after we score a few goals and they have one waved off. Play half ass hockey to start the 3rd and score a cheapy making it 4-1, call off the dogs and put out the fire, wrong set up the umbrella whilst even strength and give them a goal, no faceoff presence or support bang bang it tie. Score at the buzzer, yet waved off because out of time(no syncronization between game clock and offical clock). ***** at least 3 times in OT by the refs, many missed calls. Shootup is a nightmare, briere tries to beat nitty on the ice, giroux puts it in the 100's and Bob god bless him is the Helen Kellar of shootouts, another gutless effort.

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12-09-2010, 10:02 AM
  #947
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Don't really see a big problem with Z. He's making the same mistakes many other guys are making. He's playing fairly feisty and he's a finisher being juggled around. Not exactly a recipe for success for a guy like Nik. In all, I'm not disappointed with him at all. His real value will show when this team runs into injury problems. Dumb, ill-timed stick infractions and bad refreeing will continue to hinder this team. I hear many opposing fans complain about Pronger and the leash he gets from refs in regards to interference and crosschecks....San Jose had a whole team of Prongers last night. Ryan Clowe would have been a great fit on this team.

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12-09-2010, 10:06 AM
  #948
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not consistently though. how many games has he had the same line mates forr? Even during the games has he ever had a consistent lien for the whoel 60 minutes?
What has he done to earn consistent play with those lines? The simple truth is that the guys playing above Zherdev are playing better hockey than Zherdev.

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12-09-2010, 10:07 AM
  #949
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Don't really see a big problem with Z. He's making the same mistakes many other guys are making. He's playing fairly feisty and he's a finisher being juggled around. Not exactly a recipe for success for a guy like Nik. In all, I'm not disappointed with him at all. His real value will show when this team runs into injury problems. Dumb, ill-timed stick infractions and bad refreeing will continue to hinder this team. I hear many opposing fans complain about Pronger and the leash he gets from refs in regards to interference and crosschecks....San Jose had a whole team of Prongers last night. Ryan Clowe would have been a great fit on this team.
I think he's been fine, and ultimately we need him playing with one of the scoring lines. However, he needs to start playing with his teammates better... working the puck around, and creating chances off of passing rather than just trying to carry the puck in, or taking advantage of broken plays.

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12-09-2010, 10:10 AM
  #950
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What has he done to earn consistent play with those lines? The simple truth is that the guys playing above Zherdev are playing better hockey than Zherdev.
what hasnt he done to earn it? i am not there in practice. Based on the games other players struggle and make boneheaded plays. They rarely get benched or called out. Zherdev does. He is on the shortest leash possible. Seems to be a diff set of rules for him imolHe will have a hard time finding a groove if they continue to move him around.

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