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Old
12-09-2010, 10:42 AM
  #26
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
You make it sound like the Preds are awesome or something. They have two more wins than the Oilers that's it.
the Preds are a consistent playoff contender, five appearances in the last six years.

the Thrash, Oil and Panthers have what, one playoff appearance(and zero playoff wins), combined, in those same 6 years?

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:23 AM
  #27
triggrman
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
maybe Walker was but I believe Kimmo was picked up for "future considerations"


and in any case the loss of Jones was similar to the loss of Walker.. if we had really wanted to keep Jones we could have given him a QO... just as Vancouver could have protected Walker and exposed someone else. Just like we gambled and lost jones, they gambled and lost Walker

edit: confirmed

per tsn
Wasn't that part of a deal with LA then though, if I remember correctly we took a goalie in the expansion draft so they wouldn't be able to lose a goalie the next drafts even though we never expected to use the goalie we picked up. As a return, they had this "future considerations" deal?

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12-09-2010, 11:28 AM
  #28
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I would take jones back, but not for his current contract. I really wish we had held onto him but I think Edmonton is the best fit for him at the moment.

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Old
12-09-2010, 01:05 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
the Preds are a consistent playoff contender, five appearances in the last six years.

the Thrash, Oil and Panthers have what, one playoff appearance(and zero playoff wins), combined, in those same 6 years?
The Thrashers look like they'll make the playoffs again this year. And the Oilers also have one playoff appearance in the last six years/seasons... the miracle run to the Stanley Cup Finals in '06.

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12-09-2010, 02:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
the Preds are a consistent playoff contender, five appearances in the last six years.

the Thrash, Oil and Panthers have what, one playoff appearance(and zero playoff wins), combined, in those same 6 years?
It also sucks to live in a cardboard box in Africa.

I think there is a difference between "playoff contender" and a consistent candidate to make it the 1st round of the playoffs.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:49 PM
  #31
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so play pretend. insert jones, peverly, and santorelli in the lineup at W, C, and C

Sully-O'Reilly-Wilson
Erat-Goc-SK
Tootoo-Smithson-Ward
Dumont-Spaling-Hornquist

becomes

Sully-O'Reilly-Wilson
Erat-Goc-SK
Tootoo-Peverly-Jones
Dumont-Santorelli-Hornquist

Who plays the PK?
Who can win a faceoff?

do you really think this is better?

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:41 PM
  #32
SK13
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
so play pretend. insert jones, peverly, and santorelli in the lineup at W, C, and C

Sully-O'Reilly-Wilson
Erat-Goc-SK
Tootoo-Smithson-Ward
Dumont-Spaling-Hornquist

becomes

Sully-O'Reilly-Wilson
Erat-Goc-SK
Tootoo-Peverly-Jones
Dumont-Santorelli-Hornquist

Who plays the PK?
Who can win a faceoff?

do you really think this is better?
Other than the fact that Peverely is clearly superior to Goc and O'Reilly, there's also the fact that he's top-10 in the league in faceoffs with 58% over 400+ sorties.

A top-4 C grouping of Peverly, O'Reilly, Goc and Smithson would put Nashville at something like 53.4%, which is easily 3rd in the league in faceoff percentage. So yes, in that respect, it is better.

Can't speak towards Santorelli, but I understand the Jones arguments. These goals are coming off the rush, which is about the only thing Edmonton does as well as any other team. He wouldn't be scoring as many important goals on a team like Nashville, which plays too disciplined to let loose the dogs of war, and that's part of why you're a better team (for now).

My quibble with the organization (if I were a Nashville fan) would be: "why are we letting these assets go for nothing? If they don't fit our organization, why doesn't Poille make a deal before they're only good for waiver bait".

Clearly teams are seeing something in these players if they keep picking them up on waivers.

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
My quibble with the organization (if I were a Nashville fan) would be: "why are we letting these assets go for nothing? If they don't fit our organization, why doesn't Poille make a deal before they're only good for waiver bait".
Trust me, we heard that......

Fact is, they traded Santorelli and got a pick. Jones was waiver wire, Peverley was waivers. At the time of the moves most of us thought they would either pass waivers or not be worth anything.

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Other than the fact that Peverely is clearly superior to Goc and O'Reilly, there's also the fact that he's top-10 in the league in faceoffs with 58% over 400+ sorties.

A top-4 C grouping of Peverly, O'Reilly, Goc and Smithson would put Nashville at something like 53.4%, which is easily 3rd in the league in faceoff percentage. So yes, in that respect, it is better.

Can't speak towards Santorelli, but I understand the Jones arguments. These goals are coming off the rush, which is about the only thing Edmonton does as well as any other team. He wouldn't be scoring as many important goals on a team like Nashville, which plays too disciplined to let loose the dogs of war, and that's part of why you're a better team (for now).

My quibble with the organization (if I were a Nashville fan) would be: "why are we letting these assets go for nothing? If they don't fit our organization, why doesn't Poille make a deal before they're only good for waiver bait".

Clearly teams are seeing something in these players if they keep picking them up on waivers.
For the millionth time, Peverley flat out STUNK here, and was "rumored" (i'll leave it at that) to have been mildly unpopular with his teammates. I'll stop short of saying that he's clearly superior to O'Reilly, who is in the midst of a breakout season after putting up similar numbers to Peverley in the minors at a younger age, especially since Peverley's numbers on the new-look Thrashers have dwindled. Go figure that playing on a PP with Ilya Kovalchuk may have artificially inflated his stats. Goc is similarly an all-around better player than Rich Peverley, at least to the Predators...faceoffs aside(though neither Goc nor O'Reilly are a slouch).

Jones was the only one of the three I didn't want to see go, but as I mentioned(and others have), he simply didn't fit in here, and likely was starting to develop some confidence issues due to Trotz's lack of trust in him. He was an expensive "wait and see" project, especially given that Wilson and O'Reilly were pushing for a roster spot and outperforming him.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
For the millionth time, Peverley flat out STUNK here, and was "rumored" (i'll leave it at that) to have been mildly unpopular with his teammates. I'll stop short of saying that he's clearly superior to O'Reilly, who is in the midst of a breakout season after putting up similar numbers to Peverley in the minors at a younger age, especially since Peverley's numbers on the new-look Thrashers have dwindled. Go figure that playing on a PP with Ilya Kovalchuk may have artificially inflated his stats. Goc is similarly an all-around better player than Rich Peverley, at least to the Predators...faceoffs aside(though neither Goc nor O'Reilly are a slouch).

Jones was the only one of the three I didn't want to see go, but as I mentioned(and others have), he simply didn't fit in here, and likely was starting to develop some confidence issues due to Trotz's lack of trust in him. He was an expensive "wait and see" project, especially given that Wilson and O'Reilly were pushing for a roster spot and outperforming him.
Fair enough.

I'll just point out that while it's obvious Rich Peverly has certainly been better in Atlanta, whether or not that was the product of attitude issues, a system that makes it tough on players of his ilk or simply being inflated (he's on pace for the same season he had last year BTW, give or take a couple points), he's an asset Nashville handed off too late and for no return.

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12-09-2010, 05:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Fair enough.

I'll just point out that while it's obvious Rich Peverly has certainly been better in Atlanta, whether or not that was the product of attitude issues, a system that makes it tough on players of his ilk or simply being inflated (he's on pace for the same season he had last year BTW, give or take a couple points), he's an asset Nashville handed off too late and for no return.
We held on to him because Poile knew he could turn into something special. Why would he trade away an asset in which he sees big potential? Who really cares if we lost out on a 5th round pick? I'd much rather roll the dice on Peverley breaking out than give him away for a 5th or something. Your logic doesn't add up.

I don't get all bent out of shape when I see players do well in other places. I just view that as our scouting department doing a very good job. Sometimes players just don't fit. It's neither side's fault, it just happens.

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12-09-2010, 06:10 PM
  #37
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Peverly is not "clearly" better than O'Reilly. Point totals are about the same.

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12-09-2010, 07:25 PM
  #38
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Peverly is not "clearly" better than O'Reilly. Point totals are about the same.
As far as this season goes, I would say it is a huge stretch to say that Peverley is clearly better than O'Reilly. Pevs is a bit better in faceoffs and a fair bit worse in his own zone. As you said, numbers are the same so far and Pevs is playing in a much more offensively aggressive system.

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12-09-2010, 09:18 PM
  #39
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Trust me, we heard that......

Fact is, they traded Santorelli and got a pick. Jones was waiver wire, Peverley was waivers. At the time of the moves most of us thought they would either pass waivers or not be worth anything.
thing to remember about jones too, we put him on waivers after the grebeshkov deal, and most here thought it was a wink wink thing with edmonton anyway.

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12-09-2010, 09:33 PM
  #40
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thing to remember about jones too, we put him on waivers after the grebeshkov deal, and most here thought it was a wink wink thing with edmonton anyway.
Boy you talk about a type of player this team could desperately use. Too bad we couldn't come to an agreement with him.

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12-09-2010, 10:00 PM
  #41
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Boy you talk about a type of player this team could desperately use. Too bad we couldn't come to an agreement with him.
Who? $3.2mil per year Grebs or $1mil per year Jones?

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12-09-2010, 11:13 PM
  #42
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Who? $3.2mil per year Grebs or $1mil per year Jones?
Grebs. I understand we couldn't afford him and he wasn't willing to come down on his price so it was a no go from the start. Just saying we could use a D-man with some offensive creativity like his.

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12-10-2010, 07:45 AM
  #43
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Who? $3.2mil per year Grebs or $1mil per year Jones?
If we could have gotten Grebs for say, 2 million for a year or two, I would have been thrilled. I'm not sure anyone would have wanted him back for 3.

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12-10-2010, 10:58 AM
  #44
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Boy you talk about a type of player this team could desperately use. Too bad we couldn't come to an agreement with him.
I'm glad I kept reading. At first I thought this was in reference to Jones. I liked Ryan, but we aren't in desperate need of him.

Grebs though. I'd love to have Grebs back. Not at the listed price, but you know what I mean.

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Old
12-11-2010, 03:54 PM
  #45
PredsV82
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Wasn't that part of a deal with LA then though, if I remember correctly we took a goalie in the expansion draft so they wouldn't be able to lose a goalie the next drafts even though we never expected to use the goalie we picked up. As a return, they had this "future considerations" deal?
i dont know about any of that but whatever the deal was it doesnt change the fact that they gave away a player for nothing who went on to be an All-Star. I seriously doubt Pevs, Jones or Santo will ever become all-stars, but even if they did they obviously werent going to do it as Preds.

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