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Old
12-09-2010, 09:11 PM
  #26
phillyfanatic
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Since Crosby has come to Pittsburgh (and Malkin and the rest of the gang) we've had an atrocious record against them in the regular season where we only win like one out of every five against them or something similarly pitiful. In the playoffs, we're 0-2 against this particular Pens team. Crosby and Malkin both have absurd PPG averages against us and Fleury rarely seem to have a bad game against us.

It should be obvious why I don't want to face them.

I don't want to face the Caps because I don't like watching team I hate play and because they're an elite team that has the ability to expose our bad goaltending.
Why not just look it up - it takes like 3 minutes (at least it took me that long):

2005-2006: Flyers win regular season series 6-1-1
2006-2007: Penguins win regular season series 6-0-2 (member that year)

Homer years:
2007-2008: Flyers win series 5-3
2008-2009: Series tied 2-2-2
2009-2010: Flyers lose series 1-4-1
2010-2011: Flyers leading series 2-1

Hardly dominating. Since he was drafted we have 17 wins to 17 loses in regulation.

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12-09-2010, 09:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Like someone said before the game yesterday, we still have a really hard time containing star players.

teams like Boston, MTL, NJD we can deal with easily as we out match them in depth and talent. Teams like Washingotn, Pitts, etc we need to prove ourselves against
I agree - but all teams have trouble containing the likes of Crosby and Ovechkin. I think with an improved 5-6 pairing to prevent obvious mismatches, we have the D and the defensive minded forwards to limit them. We definitely need to prove it, but so far this year - I think we are showing we are just as good.

Those teams still have suspect goaltending and D. We have just as much firepower without the first overall talent. Our three top lines matches up against either of those two teams easily. IMO

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Why not just look it up - it takes like 3 minutes (at least it took me that long):

2005-2006: Flyers win regular season series 6-1-1
2006-2007: Penguins win regular season series 6-0-2 (member that year)

Homer years:
2007-2008: Flyers win series 5-3
2008-2009: Series tied 2-2-2
2009-2010: Flyers lose series 1-4-1
2010-2011: Flyers leading series 2-1

Hardly dominating. Since he was drafted we have 17 wins to 17 loses in regulation.
1) I don't know where to find these numbers.

2) At the very least your 07-08 numbers are wrong. Don't care enough to find out if any others are as well. According to what you just listed, we played 8 games against the Pens in 07-08.

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12-09-2010, 11:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
1) I don't know where to find these numbers.

2) At the very least your 07-08 numbers are wrong. Don't care enough to find out if any others are as well. According to what you just listed, we played 8 games against the Pens in 07-08.
You find these numbers at wikipedia under "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-08_Philadelphia_Flyers_season". For other seasons, just change the year in the url. Alternatively, there is flyershistory.net, your one stop source for pretty much everything that has ever happened with the Flyers.

Regardless, the numbers are correct and there were 8 games between each pair of divisional opponents in 07-08, and every year before that since the lockout. They changed that in 08-09 to 6.

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12-09-2010, 11:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
You find these numbers at wikipedia under "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-08_Philadelphia_Flyers_season". For other seasons, just change the year in the url. Alternatively, there is flyershistory.net, your one stop source for pretty much everything that has ever happened with the Flyers.

Regardless, the numbers are correct and there were 8 games between each pair of divisional opponents in 07-08, and every year before that since the lockout. They changed that in 08-09 to 6.
Really? Did not know that. My bad then. That's what I get for becoming a fan right around that time then.

My apologies.

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12-10-2010, 12:50 AM
  #31
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I want the Cup every single year. Call me Selfish.

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Old
12-10-2010, 10:05 AM
  #32
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Guys, please debate the topic not the posters. Thanks.

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Old
12-10-2010, 10:06 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Type flyers history in a search engine. There is one called Google and another called Bing and another called Yahoo. Not surprisingly, you didn't know that after the lockout they changed the schedule to play 8 games against divisional teams. It was later cut down to 6. So yes, they did play 8 games against them.
And you can look up every game in Flyers' history at the, wait for it, Flyers' History website: http://www.flyershistory.com/

Under the All Time Lists tab there is everything you'd ever want to know. Rosters, trades, draft picks...

Re, head to head games, go here: http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi

Pick the year and the opponent and you get all the games, with boxscores/rosters too, with +/- and shots.

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Old
12-10-2010, 10:09 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
And you can look up every game in Flyers' history at the, wait for it, Flyers' History website: http://www.flyershistory.com/

Under the All Time Lists tab there is everything you'd ever want to know. Rosters, trades, draft picks...

Re, head to head games, go here: http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi

Pick the year and the opponent and you get all the games, with boxscores/rosters too, with +/- and shots.
That website rocks. I go there all the time for the transaction history.


Last edited by Hollywood Couturier: 12-10-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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Old
12-10-2010, 10:13 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Guys, please debate the topic not the posters. Thanks.
Thanks for deleting both posts rather then just one (well, technically it was three posts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
And you can look up every game in Flyers' history at the, wait for it, Flyers' History website: http://www.flyershistory.com/

Under the All Time Lists tab there is everything you'd ever want to know. Rosters, trades, draft picks...

Re, head to head games, go here: http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi

Pick the year and the opponent and you get all the games, with boxscores/rosters too, with +/- and shots.
Thanks for the link. I'll probably bookmark that.

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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Why not just look it up - it takes like 3 minutes (at least it took me that long):

2005-2006: Flyers win regular season series 6-1-1
2006-2007: Penguins win regular season series 6-0-2 (member that year)

Homer years:
2007-2008: Flyers win series 5-3
2008-2009: Series tied 2-2-2
2009-2010: Flyers lose series 1-4-1
2010-2011: Flyers leading series 2-1

Hardly dominating. Since he was drafted we have 17 wins to 17 loses in regulation.
Including playoffs and disregarding this year because this season isn't anywhere near done yet, we have 11 wins to 20 losses since 07-08. That is horrible. It's not as bad as I originally suggested, but it's still really, really bad. If you take out that 07-08 season, which is our only winning record against the Pens since then, then the numbers are even worse at 6 wins to 18 losses. That's atrocious.

On top of all of that, both Crosby and Malkin have absurd PPG averages against us with Malkin averaging above 1.5 PPG against us and with Crosby averaging above 1.7 PPG against us.

So, yeah, they've dominated us.

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Old
12-10-2010, 10:30 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Thanks for deleting both posts rather then just one (well, technically it was three posts).



Thanks for the link. I'll probably bookmark that.



Including playoffs and disregarding this year because this season isn't anywhere near done yet, we have 11 wins to 20 losses since 07-08. That is horrible. It's not as bad as I originally suggested, but it's still really, really bad. If you take out that 07-08 season, which is our only winning record against the Pens since then, then the numbers are even worse at 6 wins to 18 losses. That's atrocious.

On top of all of that, both Crosby and Malkin have absurd PPG averages against us with Malkin averaging above 1.5 PPG against us and with Crosby averaging above 1.7 PPG against us.

So, yeah, they've dominated us.

Agreed. If you take out our best years and include only theirs. Then yes, they have dominated us. However, if you look at simply the wins and loses I posted. It is rather even. Either way, this year is all that matters right now, and I personally think we have more depth and are a better team than the Penguins. I think we have more grit and D than the Capitals. I think we beat either team in a 7 game series.

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12-10-2010, 10:35 AM
  #37
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playoffs > regular season

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12-10-2010, 10:36 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Agreed. If you take out our best years and include only theirs.
What? What years did I take out? I included every year under Holmgren and expanded on what you posted by including the playoff stats, which is what the discussion is about.

Quote:
Then yes, they have dominated us. However, if you look at simply the wins and loses I posted. It is rather even.
The last three seasons it's been anything but even.

Quote:
Either way, this year is all that matters right now, and I personally think we have more depth and are a better team than the Penguins.
That's fine and all, but I still don't want to face them. They're easily the biggest threat in the East next to the Caps our performance against them over the last few season doesn't inspire any hope.

Quote:
I think we have more grit and D than the Capitals. I think we beat either team in a 7 game series.
We could. It could still go either way though and they're still, by far, the scariest teams in the East to face for us.

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12-10-2010, 11:23 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
playoffs > regular season
What the heck is this supposed to mean?

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Old
12-10-2010, 11:26 AM
  #40
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What the heck is this supposed to mean?
It means that playoffs are more important then the regular season. Which is certainly true and the Pens have beaten the Flyers soundly since Malkin and Crosby came into the league.

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12-10-2010, 11:50 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
It means that playoffs are more important then the regular season. Which is certainly true and the Pens have beaten the Flyers soundly since Malkin and Crosby came into the league.
Let's take a different perspective of this, the regular season prepares the team for the playoffs. You cannot expect to just show up in the playoff while making it as a #7 seed. Now, I do agree with you about the Flyers needing to exorcise the Pens from the playoffs finally, but it begins with the regular season.

Look last year at the series against the Devils, or even the Bruins. I knew pretty well that the Flyers would handle the Devils because of how they played against them during the regular season, and Kovalchuk was not going to be a difference maker. The Bruins I kind of knew the same thing, even when down 3-0 I told my coworkers who are all Bruins fans to watch out, Gagne was back and this series would turn on the next game....boom, done.

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Old
12-10-2010, 11:59 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's take a different perspective of this, the regular season prepares the team for the playoffs. You cannot expect to just show up in the playoff while making it as a #7 seed. Now, I do agree with you about the Flyers needing to exorcise the Pens from the playoffs finally, but it begins with the regular season.

Look last year at the series against the Devils, or even the Bruins. I knew pretty well that the Flyers would handle the Devils because of how they played against them during the regular season, and Kovalchuk was not going to be a difference maker. The Bruins I kind of knew the same thing, even when down 3-0 I told my coworkers who are all Bruins fans to watch out, Gagne was back and this series would turn on the next game....boom, done.
I agree with you, but it doesn't really matter in context of the original discussion. The Pens have done much better then us in the regular season, they've done a hell of a lot better in the post-season, and their record against us for the last three seasons is really good (for them).

No matter how you slice it, in recent years, the Pens have owned us.

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12-10-2010, 12:09 PM
  #43
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It HAS to be this year. Pronger and Timo are not getting any younger and will start to decline. Forwards are getting pricier and harder to keep.

Right now Flyers have nine forwards (three complete lines) each capable of scoring 20 goals. Six defensemen, not one of which is considered weak or sub standard ... five of which are definitely above average.

I mean really.. Andrej Meszaros as a fifth and O'Donnell as a sixth?? Richards and a rising JVR and a Nodl who'd on his way to scoring 20 goals .... as a THIRD LINE???
Who the heck has that???

This is unprecedented depth that simply cannot be kept together for very long. It has to be this year. Just like it HAD to be last year for the Hawks.

Same reason, exactly same reason: ie: that level of depth cannot be retained longer than one year.

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12-10-2010, 12:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's take a different perspective of this, the regular season prepares the team for the playoffs. You cannot expect to just show up in the playoff while making it as a #7 seed. Now, I do agree with you about the Flyers needing to exorcise the Pens from the playoffs finally, but it begins with the regular season.

Look last year at the series against the Devils, or even the Bruins. I knew pretty well that the Flyers would handle the Devils because of how they played against them during the regular season, and Kovalchuk was not going to be a difference maker. The Bruins I kind of knew the same thing, even when down 3-0 I told my coworkers who are all Bruins fans to watch out, Gagne was back and this series would turn on the next game....boom, done.
MTL beats us in the regular season, yet we eliminated them twice in recent years.

Even if we go 500 against pens in reg season, they have owned us in the playoffs, you cant ignore that

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12-10-2010, 12:53 PM
  #45
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Don't worry, MSE will be able to remind us. He may also be able to tell you the fifth word of the 3rd sentence in the 2nd question asked of Lavi in the postgame interview after game 3.
"soda"

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Old
12-10-2010, 01:59 PM
  #46
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MTL beats us in the regular season, yet we eliminated them twice in recent years.

Even if we go 500 against pens in reg season, they have owned us in the playoffs, you cant ignore that
They did eliminate us twice. However, Malkin was the main reason we were elminated two years ago. He has not been good in the playoffs or regular season for over a year now. They had Gonchar, Hossa, Guerin, Colby Armstrong and many other pieces that were huge for them. We never had Pronger, Leino, Giroux, JVR, Meszaros, O'donnell, Bob, etc.

In other words, while they beat us twice, we have the horses to beat them this year. In fact, I believe looking at both lineups, we have the better team. A couple years back, I would not have said that. They had better goalies, D and forwards. Now, I think we have better goalies (assuming Bob does not hit the rookie wall and Fleury remains inconsistent), we have similar D and forwards.

Your right, but the 2010-2011 Flyers are different than the Flyer teams they beat. So, this regular season is very important to show we can beat them. So far, so good. If we win the season series, there is no reason to think we can't win a playoff series. After all, our players are known for "uping" their game when it counts as much as theirs are.

Bring it. I can't wait to see it.

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12-10-2010, 02:11 PM
  #47
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I hope the Flyers aren't as overconfident as you are. confidence is one thing, over confidence is another

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12-10-2010, 02:17 PM
  #48
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I know it sucks that it's been so long since we've won the cup, but I'm proud of this franchise for always trying to win it. Snider put it right when he said that the Flyers don't know how to rebuild. EVERY season is another chance to win it all, and I'd much rather cheer for a competitive team that doesn't know the word quit even if they never win it all than watch a team that gives up for a rebuild. I know it's not practical, but it's a matter of self respect for me.

I've complained about this team's consistency, but one thing that the franchise is pretty consistent about is philosophy. Try to win the cup every year.

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Old
12-10-2010, 02:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
It HAS to be this year. Pronger and Timo are not getting any younger and will start to decline. Forwards are getting pricier and harder to keep.

Right now Flyers have nine forwards (three complete lines) each capable of scoring 20 goals. Six defensemen, not one of which is considered weak or sub standard ... five of which are definitely above average.

I mean really.. Andrej Meszaros as a fifth and O'Donnell as a sixth?? Richards and a rising JVR and a Nodl who'd on his way to scoring 20 goals .... as a THIRD LINE???
Who the heck has that???

This is unprecedented depth that simply cannot be kept together for very long. It has to be this year. Just like it HAD to be last year for the Hawks.

Same reason, exactly same reason: ie: that level of depth cannot be retained longer than one year.
Sorry, have to disagree. It doesn't HAVE to be this year, and the Hawk analogy is not really accurate.

The Hawks had several guys on expensive extensions and with big bonuses for winning the Cup that forced them to dump a lot of salary after they won. We don't have that situation, and we won't even if we win the Cup. Carter's extension is barely a raise, in terms of cap hit. Giroux got a reasonable raise too.

Other than Leino and Zherdev, the whole team is either already signed or can be easily reupped with a minimal raise whether UFA (O'Donnell) or the RFAs (Carcillo, JVR, Nodl, Powe).

That would still leave us with 11 guys for next year: Briere, Richards, Carter, Hartnell, Giroux, JVR, Nodl, Powe, Carcillo, Betts and Shelley already signed or RFA.

Zherdev's been OK, but nothing worldbeating. He may benefit from going somewhere where he'll get PP time.

Even if Leino's value increases so much that he's out of our range, oh well, he's been a great addition and we'll have to find someone for his spot in a price range we can afford.

If we only lost Zherdev and Leino next year, it would not be a tragedy, and Homer seems intent on finding a way to keep Ville.
In past years, the salary cap has forced us to get rid of guys like Umberger, Knuble and Gagne, yet somehow we are at the top in the GF category now.

On D, Pronger and Timonen may start to decline, in fact, compared to when they were 30 they probably are. But they are excellently conditioned veterans who are benefiting from reduced workload and playing great hockey. They have a few really good years left each - Kimmo never came over until later so he's got less NHL wear and tear.

It's possible Homer may have to chose between keeping all the top 5 and signing Leino, we'll see. it will all depend on what Ville can command on the open market (which he will know very clearly through the gravevine), and what Homer does with Leighton and Walker.

Even if Homer decides to deal Carle or Meszaros to keep Ville, our D will still be exceptionally strong.

We've got a very good 1-3 year window at least, to make another serious run at the Cup. If we don't win it this year, we can come back with almost the same team next year again.

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12-14-2010, 08:46 PM
  #50
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I agree with you, but it doesn't really matter in context of the original discussion. The Pens have done much better then us in the regular season, they've done a hell of a lot better in the post-season, and their record against us for the last three seasons is really good (for them).

No matter how you slice it, in recent years, the Pens have owned us.
That is one more win in our pocket against the Pens. 3-1 Flyers this year. 1st overall in the NHL. Keep on telling us all how the Pens are better. LETS GO FLYERS!!!! LETS GO FLYERS!!!!

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