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Old
12-10-2010, 02:17 PM
  #1
Appleyard
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All-era team

If you could pick a flyers all time team, what would it look like? Personally im only going to include players i watched for the flyers live, so mines effectively a 97-98 until now team, also im not sticking to conventional 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines, just effectively an allstar team, as it wouldnt feel right for me putting in players i never had a chance to watch, even though it would be obvious that clarke, parent etc would be in it. Here goes...

LeClair-Lindros-Renberg
Gagne-Forsberg-Recchi
Briere-Brind'Amour-Roenick
Handzus-Primeau-Richards

Pronger-Coffey
Desjardins-Timonen
Johnsson-Pitkanen

Hextall-Cechmanek

Alts: Tocchet, Thieren, Hatcher
Hon. Mention: McGillis, Smith, Amonte, Carter, Kapanen, Langkow, Knuble.

Makes me wonder why we seem to have an abundance of centers, let me know if ive missed anyone major.

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12-10-2010, 02:36 PM
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Mine, from '00-'10:

Leclair-Roenick-Recchi
Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Amonte-Primeau-Richards
Brashear*-Handzus-Kapenen

*honestly, how can any Flyers fan not have an enforcer on their list?

Desjardins-Pronger
Timonen-Pitkanen
Hatcher-Smith

Ceckmanek
Biron
Esche

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Old
12-10-2010, 02:43 PM
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ashamsmashem
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too many to pick from but i would have loved to see an asham-handzus-radivojevic line.

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Old
12-10-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
LeClair-Lindros-Renberg
Gagne-Forsberg-Recchi
Briere-Brind'Amour-Roenick
Handzus-Primeau-Richards
haha...nobody would score on that line.

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12-10-2010, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
haha...nobody would score on that line.
What are you talking about? Richards would get 3 girls a night without Carter **** blocking him.

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Old
12-10-2010, 03:20 PM
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Tocchet-lindros- Dineen
Shultz-bridgemen- Secord
Mccarthy-lacroix-brashear
Kordic Stanley brown (need a goon line)

Wilson-cochran
Carkner dupont
Wells - McGill

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Old
12-10-2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
What are you talking about? Richards would get 3 girls a night without Carter **** blocking him.
I meant score against, but your point is taken

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Old
12-10-2010, 03:33 PM
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Seen them or not... the players that made the HHoF and played significant time with the Flyers have to be on the list, IMO.

That said, I've seen them all anyway... with that I have a lot of tough choices to make cuts with. I have to consider the time a player has been playing for the Flyers and eliminate the newer guys with their careers ahead of them in favor of players that were good in the long haul... Line/pairing-mates choice are often meaningless.

Barber - Clarke - Leach (hard to break up)

LeClair - MacLeish - Recchi

Kerr - Lindros - Propp

Dornhoefer - Poulin - Gagne

extra forwards: Brind'Amour/Primeau



Howe - McCrimmon

Dsjardines - Timonen

Jim Watson - Van Imp

Extra D-men: Dailey Dupont



Parent - Hextall

Extra Goalie: Lindbergh (projecting his career out... Peeters if not)




Leaving off some of the players I wanted to include breaks my heart... and redoing this in a short few years will no doubt change this list as I consider Richards, Giroux, and Carter... and Briere and Pronger have more years wearing O&B if they continue playing as they have... And what about Bob?


... And I know I'm going to kick myself for omissions as I recall players that I overlooked.

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Old
12-10-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Mine, from '00-'10:

Leclair-Roenick-Recchi
Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Amonte-Primeau-Richards
Brashear*-Handzus-Kapenen

*honestly, how can any Flyers fan not have an enforcer on their list?

Desjardins-Pronger
Timonen-Pitkanen
Hatcher-Smith

Ceckmanek
Biron
Esche
Yeh, was just picking it like an allstar team! But Lindros, Pronger, Tocchet were/are good fighters. Lindros having the best fight win percentage of anyone with over 40 fights, Pronger having the best of anyone over 10, if I remember correctly!

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Old
12-10-2010, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Yeh, was just picking it like an allstar team! But Lindros, Pronger, Tocchet were/are good fighters. Lindros having the best fight win percentage of anyone with over 40 fights, Pronger having the best of anyone over 10, if I remember correctly!
Start taking enforcers and you have to cut some great players. Forty plus years worth of players are hard enough to whittle down without doing so for goons.

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12-10-2010, 05:42 PM
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First we need to define the eras don't we?

I've actually been curious about this.

The Broad Street Bullies Era
The Late 80's-Early 90's
The Legion of Doom
Post-Lindros
Richards/Carter Era

Does that sound about right?

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Old
12-10-2010, 05:49 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
First we need to define the eras don't we?

I've actually been curious about this.

The Broad Street Bullies Era
The Late 80's-Early 90's
The Legion of Doom
Post-Lindros
Richards/Carter Era

Does that sound about right?
Sounds about right, the Post-Lindros era maybe called the rent an old ex-superstar player era, seems to be what we did every year or two before the lockout! Maybe an other era in the early to mid eighties. Tbh the only reason I called in all-era was because i didnt want to call it all-time!

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Old
12-10-2010, 06:19 PM
  #13
MiamiScreamingEagles
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I wouldn't mess with chemistry and because of that I'd keep the Rick MacLeish line centering Gary Dornhoefer and Ross Lonsberry in tact. That was a line where each player's strengths were magnified by the line mates. Dorny and Lonsberry probably wouldn't make the cut otherwise but I wouldn't touch it.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-10-2010 at 06:26 PM.
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Old
12-10-2010, 06:23 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
First we need to define the eras don't we?

I've actually been curious about this.

The Broad Street Bullies Era
The Late 80's-Early 90's
The Legion of Doom
Post-Lindros
Richards/Carter Era

Does that sound about right?


Personally, I'd expand the eras and relabel them as follows:

The Expansion Infancy Era
The Broad Street Bullies Era (Allen Era)
The 80's Scrappers Era (First Clarke Era)
The Late 80s/Early 90s lost in the Desert Era (Clarke Exile Era)
The Legion of Doom (Lindros ERa)
Pre-Lockout Era (Late Clarke Era)
Post-Lockout Era (Homer Era)

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Old
12-10-2010, 06:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
I wouldn't mess with chemistry and because of that I'd keep the Rick MacLeish line centering Gary Dornhoefer and Ross Lonsberry in tact. That was a line where each player's strengths were magnified by the line mates. Dorny and Lonsberry wouldn't make the cut otherwise but I wouldn't touch it.
On my list Rosco was considered... but there were just too many players to climb over... I agree that that was one of the all-time Flyers lines, and stayed pretty much intact for quite a while.

In my mind though, Dorney deserved to be on the list due to all he did during his career here... He has been a greatly underrated Flyer and is often swept under the rug. He was never flashy, but he was the stereotypical Flyers player as they were created to be... And a hell of a nice guy to boot.

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12-10-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
On my list Rosco was considered... but there were just too many to climb over... I agree that that a line was one of the all-time Flyers lines, and stayed pretty much intact for quite a while.

In my mind though Dorney deserved to be on the list due to all he did during his career here... He has been a greatly underrated Flyer and is often swept under the rug. He was never flashy, but he was stereotypical Flyers player as they were created to be... And a hell of a nice guy to boot.
That line was probably the most underrated in team history which is why I would elevate the trio and leave it untouched. It was an ideal second line. This is all mythical of course but there's no guarantee that some of the top players of different eras would mesh in a similar way. I could be convinced that Dorny belongs there as a singular entry, too. He worked so well with MacLeish, though, I wouldn't split them.

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12-10-2010, 06:52 PM
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Gagne - Forsberg - Knuble ( Scoring line)
Hartnell - Briere - Leino ( Scoring line/ Playoff power)
Giroux - Brind'Amour - Richards (Shutdown pro's/PK'ers)
Lappy - Handzus - Kapanen ( Shutdown line)

Desjardins - Pronger
Hatcher - Timonen
Smith - Johnsson


Bobrovsky
Biron

That as a real team, not built as an all star one. I'll take the cup now thanks. Have giroux and briere for shootouts, Richards and Brind'amour
would make an unbelievable shutdown duo.


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Old
12-10-2010, 07:18 PM
  #18
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Btw, it's Kapanen.

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Old
12-10-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
That line was probably the most underrated in team history which is why I would elevate the trio and leave it untouched. It was an ideal second line. This is all mythical of course but there's no guarantee that some of the top players of different eras would mesh in a similar way. I could be convinced that Dorny belongs there as a singular entry, too. He worked so well with MacLeish, though, I wouldn't split them.
Point well taken, and I cannot argue with you on that.

... But with that we open up the question if intact great lines could work with other intact lines from other eras... much on the line with the question of great players from different eras meshing.

I think it is safe to say that the team that Allen built for Shero and maintained for a half decade or so was built as a team... on a team concept. All the lines were put together to function as a unit with various complimenting talents... And the other lines were built as well to function at their tasks, and in turn all the lines complimented each other to play as a team and play within Shero's system -- keeping in mind that Shero often mixed and matched lines on a whim in certain circumstances... for example placing Schultz on Clarke's line to protect Clarke. And once even in a post season overtime game in Atlanta when Schultz scored the series clincher when put with Clarke on a hunch... And IIRC Schultz had a key assist on the Clarke OT winner in Boston ice in '74. But I digress.

What I'm getting at is, could the Legion of Doom play with the LCB line and other lines from other eras? Would that all-time team win more than a team developed to play a system as a team?... We might be better determining a Flyers all-time team out of the 40+ teams iced.

For this particular question, IMO mixing and matching for honors is totally okay... after all, they will never skate a serious shift on ice together.

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12-10-2010, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Point well taken, and I cannot argue with you on that.

... But with that we open up the question if intact great lines could work with other intact lines from other eras... much on the line with the question of great players from different eras meshing.

I think it is safe to say that the team that Allen built for Shero and maintained for a half decade or so was built as a team... on a team concept. All the lines were put together to function as a unit with various complimenting talents... And the other lines were built as well to function at their tasks, and in turn all the lines complimented each other to play as a team and play within Shero's system -- keeping in mind that Shero often mixed and matched lines on a whim in certain circumstances... for example placing Schultz on Clarke's line to protect Clarke. And once even in a post season overtime game in Atlanta when Schultz scored the series clincher when put with Clarke on a hunch... And IIRC Schultz had a key assist on the Clarke OT winner in Boston ice in '74. But I digress.

What I'm getting at is, could the Legion of Doom play with the LCB line and other lines from other eras? Would that all-time team win more than a team developed to play a system as a team?... We might be better determining a Flyers all-time team out of the 40+ teams iced.

For this particular question, IMO mixing and matching for honors is totally okay... after all, they will never skate a serious shift on ice together.
I've never been a proponent of comparing players from different eras though occasionally I admit to doing that in some instances. I've grimaced when the Richards-Clarke comparison among others arises and in different sports just because the style of the game has changed. "The next Willie Mays..." stop right there!

Would I break up the Legion? No but for threads like these we tend to remember the apex of success of any player or line. Counter that with this thought: if the 5th best LW was decidely better than the 4th best RW, would you take the RW knowing his resume or would you gamble and take the better player despite him being the fifth LW?

The other issue is rules that changed the face of the game over time. Are we playing with 2010 rules in place or 1975? Each era faces the question of whether that player could play in another time.

If the team was loaded with superstars and hall of famers, do you want one on the fourth line who possibly never played that role or a guy who excelled there?

Obviously, we run the risk of looking too deeply into the purpose of the thread. And ultimately it is done for discussion and conversation.

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12-10-2010, 08:10 PM
  #21
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Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Shelley

OKT-Bartulis
Therien-Parent
Barber-Leclaire

Clarke
Pronger




I did actually try to do this, but then I realized I was basically posting the legendary lines. I feel bad about pulling individual players out of the situations where they had incredible chemistry.

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12-10-2010, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
I've never been a proponent of comparing players from different eras though occasionally I admit to doing that in some instances. I've grimaced when the Richards-Clarke comparison among others arises and in different sports just because the style of the game has changed. "The next Willie Mays..." stop right there!

Would I break up the Legion? No but for threads like these we tend to remember the apex of success of any player or line. Counter that with this thought: if the 5th best LW was decidely better than the 4th best RW, would you take the RW knowing his resume or would you gamble and take the better player despite him being the fifth LW?

The other issue is rules that changed the face of the game over time. Are we playing with 2010 rules in place or 1975? Each era faces the question of whether that player could play in another time.

If the team was loaded with superstars and hall of famers, do you want one on the fourth line who possibly never played that role or a guy who excelled there?

Obviously, we run the risk of looking too deeply into the purpose of the thread. And ultimately it is done for discussion and conversation.
Agreed on all points...

Are we looking at a team to ice that would win or are we merely listing the best players to play the positions (12/6/2) roughly, forgiving left/right? Are we honoring the greats on a stand-alone basis?

We might get into a greater debate with 'real' teams to ice than who are the greatest 20 or 23 players position-wise to play in Orange and Black... there would be many more grey areas when statistics are only one piece of the puzzle. Then you would have the agitators and players like Linsman would have to be considered... a whole new ball of wax IMO.

As for rules, as you brought up... Arguably our greatest player may never have been able to play in the NHL with the current rules, lest he revamped his entire game. Clarke would be whistled to the box each and every shift. LOL

And even newer players like Primeau would never be able to do the things he did... could you see Richie going in and whacking his stick on a goalie in the corner like Preems did?

And it is true that that is all sports... No cleating catchers or second-basemen... Could Pete Rose play his game? Would Bonds be what he was in the unjuiced days? Certainly McGuire and Sosa would have been nobodies back in the day.

Apples and oranges all the way around with era debates... that is for certain.

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12-10-2010, 08:13 PM
  #23
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I'm thinking about the goalie...and it's basically just Parent for me, backed up by a clone of Parent. Hextall had a couple good seasons, and he's popular, but he just doesnt make this list for me...Pelle's career was too short, and besides him, who is there?

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12-10-2010, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm thinking about the goalie...and it's basically just Parent for me, backed up by a clone of Parent. Hextall had a couple good seasons, and he's popular, but he just doesnt make this list for me...Pelle's career was too short, and besides him, who is there?
Actually, if we are to go with matching the lines and pairings as we discussed... doesn't it make sense to go with goalie tandems?

The late Wayne Stephenson was the perfect back up for Bernie... and he proved that for extended periods of Bernie's absence he was a more than adequate fill-in -- albeit not a Bernie -- It actually makes sense to not break them up... But I just love Hexy, and he did have the statistics to back up the choice... and he does share Conn Smyth honors with Bernie.


... Or we can go with Phil Myre and Pete Peeters as a great tandem... in a much shorter period.

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12-10-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Pronger
Pronger-Pronger-Shelley

OKT-Bartulis
Therien-Parent
Barber-Leclaire

Clarke
Pronger
You forgot Jim Dowd as your 4th line center.

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