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What would Columbus offer for Sundin?

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Old
06-10-2005, 01:52 AM
  #26
Rand
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A bigger issue then whether Toronto would want to deal him, and whether Colombus would want him is..... why would Sundin want to go to Colombus?

He has a NTC so he isn't going to be dealt unless he waives that, and at 34yrs old I can't see him waiving it to go to a team that isn't even a contender.
It would seem probable that there are many other teams he would much rather be dealt to, and probably at least a handful of those are a lot more likely to be interested in him.

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06-10-2005, 02:21 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer
I don't think they would have very good chemistry anyways, Sundin is more of a shoot first player, and Nash rarely passes the puck. Thornton would be a better target, but obviously a lot harder to get.
I don't know how much harder though. By all accounts Joe wants out of Boston because he is sick of Jacobs, and he didn't take the treatment he got from the organization in the playoffs very well. Everyone knew that he had underperformed in the playoffs because his shoulder was shot and that he was trying to play through it. Jacobs and the organization didn't defend Joe to the media, and they used his playoffs specifically to try and bring his value down in arbitration. Coming out of seeing the kep contributors of the team let go year after year I can't imagine it would take much to get Joe to leave at his first opportunity.

Trading for him might cost a lot, but I think that it is a lot easier to get a player who wants out of a city, than to get one who wants to stay in another.

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06-10-2005, 09:05 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Knights
I don't know how much harder though. By all accounts Joe wants out of Boston because he is sick of Jacobs, and he didn't take the treatment he got from the organization in the playoffs very well. Everyone knew that he had underperformed in the playoffs because his shoulder was shot and that he was trying to play through it. Jacobs and the organization didn't defend Joe to the media, and they used his playoffs specifically to try and bring his value down in arbitration. Coming out of seeing the kep contributors of the team let go year after year I can't imagine it would take much to get Joe to leave at his first opportunity.

Trading for him might cost a lot, but I think that it is a lot easier to get a player who wants out of a city, than to get one who wants to stay in another.
I think that's all kind of in the past. Jacobs appologized to Thornton, and I think they've mad eup. Boston won't trade Thornton because we'd be giving up a Top 5 player in the game, something that Boston hasn't had in years. Trading Joe is a suicide move.

The least I'd accept from Columbus is Zherdev, Fritshce, and a pick.

And then I'd still really have to think about the deal, because Thornton is so dominant. I don't know if I could bring myself to trading him if I were Jacobs.

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Old
06-10-2005, 09:57 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Leetch- 8 million gone
Roberts- 3 million gone
Nieuwendyk- 2 million gone
Domi- 3 million gone
Mogilny- 5 million gone

= 21 Million

we can keep Mats no problem and he's far from slowing down.
So your previous $62 million dollar payroll sheds 21 million, bringing it down to a cool $41 million. Now factor in the roll back, that gets you to 32 million.

The Cap will be between $34-36 million.
You now need to replace your top defenceman, 2 of your top wingers, and your 2nd line center, and your enforcer.

And you plan on doing that with 4 million? So saying that keeping Mats is "no problem" while true closes your eyes to a bigger problem. Look at all the holes you've created with the guys you've dumped. You will indeed have to dump some of those guys for sure, and i wouldnt want to get rid of Sundin either, but suggesting that there's plenty to go around is simply wrong. even in the world of a new CBA its going to cost some good coin to get 3 top 6 guys + a top defenceman.

? -Sundin- ?
Tucker- ? -Nolan
Pilar-Reichel-Antropov
? -Stajan-Renberg

? -Macabe
Kaberle-Klee
Berg-Coliacovo

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Old
06-10-2005, 10:10 AM
  #30
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Just because the Leafs are still considered a top team doesnt mean they dont need to rebuild. ...disaster is closer than people think, and Toronto cannot just always 'buy' themselves players to fill thier gaps, they need to develop some young players for the team to have a successful future.

The earlier they start a youth movement the better it will be for fans. ...only the Yankees and Red Socks have bought chapionships ...everyone else needs to develop players to win.

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Old
06-10-2005, 10:15 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot
So your previous $62 million dollar payroll sheds 21 million, bringing it down to a cool $41 million. Now factor in the roll back, that gets you to 32 million.

The Cap will be between $34-36 million.
You now need to replace your top defenceman, 2 of your top wingers, and your 2nd line center, and your enforcer.

And you plan on doing that with 4 million? So saying that keeping Mats is "no problem" while true closes your eyes to a bigger problem. Look at all the holes you've created with the guys you've dumped. You will indeed have to dump some of those guys for sure, and i wouldnt want to get rid of Sundin either, but suggesting that there's plenty to go around is simply wrong. even in the world of a new CBA its going to cost some good coin to get 3 top 6 guys + a top defenceman.

? -Sundin- ?
Tucker- ? -Nolan
Pilar-Reichel-Antropov
? -Stajan-Renberg

? -Macabe
Kaberle-Klee
Berg-Coliacovo

If sundin and Nolan have to re-negociate thier contracts to stay in T.O they will.. it's simple as that.. they have made there money.. they want to win a cup!

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Old
06-10-2005, 10:16 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
If sundin and Nolan have to re-negociate thier contracts to stay in T.O they will.. it's simple as that.. they have made there money.. they want to win a cup!
and why the **** do yu have reichel and renburg on the team????? lol

and why is pilar a forward???

man you don't know the rosters so stop trying....

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06-10-2005, 10:21 AM
  #33
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They wouldn't and shouldn't want him. The Jackets have a roster full of young and very talented players and they will have great shot at getting Crosby as well if they have the weighted draft lottery. I'm sure the Jackets would rather have Crosby centering Nash then Sundin. Throw Nikolai Zherdev on the right side and that line has the potential to dominate the league for years and years to come.

Klesla will be no slouch on the blueline either.

Great job by PEI's own Doug MacLean with that organization.

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06-10-2005, 11:09 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hossy316
They wouldn't and shouldn't want him.
Any team in the league shoud/would want him ...his contract may not be the greatest, but it's far from the worst ...having someone of the calibur of Sundin to tutor the younger players ...and even if they won the Crosby lottery, to be able to put Crosby behind Sundin to watch, learn and not get all the heat would make them unquestionably better.

...too many Leaf haters are just too blind to see the truth. ...If I had said Modano or Sakic would you say the same thing, or would you say he was a good fit?

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Old
06-10-2005, 02:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
and why the **** do yu have reichel and renburg on the team????? lol

and why is pilar a forward???

man you don't know the rosters so stop trying....
oh for christs sake get over yourself you blowhard.
I meant Ponikarovski not Pilar.

And as for the other scrubs...fine put them in instead of the guys i had in. The point remains exactly the same.
But then again given the quality of most of your posts it doesn't surprise me you missed the point.

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Old
06-10-2005, 02:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot
oh for christs sake get over yourself you blowhard.
I meant Ponikarovski not Pilar.

And as for the other scrubs...fine put them in instead of the guys i had in. The point remains exactly the same.
But then again given the quality of most of your posts it doesn't surprise me you missed the point.
obviouslly you should re-read thepost above the one your talking about.. ti should answer your question.

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06-10-2005, 03:01 PM
  #37
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Sundin is more valuble to the Leafs than what they'll get inretun for him.

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06-10-2005, 03:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJSlash
Considering his age, 34, we would not sacrifice any of our top prospects/players (Nash, Zherdev, Klesla...), to have a 3 or 4 year window to win. What we would be willing to offer would be laughable by the Leafs, and what the Leafs would want would be laughable by us.

For the sake of laughs:
Leafs: Sundin
CBJ: 2nd Round 2005, Fritsche
Hmm.. more like :
Leafs: Sundin, 2nd Round 2005.
CBJ: Fristche, 1st Round 2005.

Sound good for both team..

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Old
06-10-2005, 03:04 PM
  #39
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yes....im sure after having been locked out for a year, then having their salaries cut by 24% they will be bending over backwards to renegotiate.

so lets say for the sake of argument that this actually happens. how much will they both defer you think?
a couple million each? lol.... lets say that true as well.

so now instead of 4 million you have 8 million and still need to sign to 2 first line wingers, a 2nd line center and a #1 defenceman.
im sure that will be no problem.

not too mention you have already started creating cap room problems in future years in the first year of cap existence.


So i think ill stick with my assessment rather than your cross your fingers and close your eyes approach.

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Old
06-10-2005, 03:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins4Ever
He takes up 9 million dollars, you're team can't really afford to sign a lot of new players, it's better to lose one big salary through a good trade, because Fritsche is quite good. Also, Toronto should trade Sundin while he still has value. He's slowing down in his career, and while he may be the core of the team, it's time for Toronto to go into rebuilding mode. He can only carry the offense for so long.
Sundin slowing down? dude check the stats he's still is close PPG pace. He's a top 5 center in the NHL, with the 24% roll back his salry will decrease. The Leafs will get rid of guys like Leetch, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Domi, McCabe before they trade Mats. MOginly said he'll take a pay cut upto 3 million dollars when NHL resumes to return to the Leafs.

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06-10-2005, 03:10 PM
  #41
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So, is that Leetch deal one of the worst deals for the Leafs ever? Frankly, I'm just wondering (not being an ass or anything). Now, are they going to start rebuilding after this eyar and such as well? I know nothing about anything going on in the Leafs camp right now.

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Old
06-10-2005, 03:11 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
Sundin slowing down? dude check the stats he's still is close PPG pace. He's a top 5 center in the NHL, with the 24% roll back his salry will decrease. The Leafs will get rid of guys like Leetch, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Domi, McCabe before they trade Mats. MOginly said he'll take a pay cut upto 3 million dollars when NHL resumes to return to the Leafs.
They way I look at it... you goign to see shocked faces when players on Colorado detriot toronto are taking pay cuts to stay there... and you will see other guys goig to those teams to win cups....

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06-10-2005, 03:18 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
If sundin and Nolan have to re-negociate thier contracts to stay in T.O they will.. it's simple as that.. they have made there money.. they want to win a cup!
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.

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06-10-2005, 03:31 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.
To eaches own....

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06-10-2005, 03:35 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.
Agreed.

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06-10-2005, 03:39 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.
Sundin said he would like to finish his Career in Toronto and can't imagine playing for another organization.

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06-10-2005, 03:41 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.
Yup, just like Cujo. And we all know, Cujo did it right.

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06-10-2005, 03:54 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
Sundin said he would like to finish his Career in Toronto and can't imagine playing for another organization.
Oh, I'm not saying he won't. I think Sudin will finish his career in Toronto, and then quickly get elected to the HOF. My only point was that Sudin wouldn't be staying because he wants the cup - he'd be staying because he loves it in Toronto.

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06-10-2005, 08:46 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky371
Hmm.. more like :
Leafs: Sundin, 2nd Round 2005.
CBJ: Fristche, 1st Round 2005.

Sound good for both team..
Trading Fritsche and our 1st this year will never ever happen. It would definitely not be a "good" move. Bure for Jovo ring a bell, that move set the Panthers back 10 years, that's why since that trade that haven't been able to pull themselves out of the gutter.

If the Jackets have a top 3 pick it is untouchable. If it's top ten, all of our guys will have to be off the board to consider a move.

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06-10-2005, 08:50 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Sundin wants to win a cup, he'll force a trade to another team. Toronto has a very good team, but is not a true contender.
Who is a contender? No one has any idea what their entire team is going to look like.

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