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Marco Sturm traded to the Kings

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Old
12-11-2010, 09:16 PM
  #51
etherialone
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We have had a couple of deals in the works for players that in my opinion would have been better fits but they fell apart for one reason or another. At the end of the season DL will talk about them and address why they didn't happen.

I mean there really isn't any reason to discuss what or who or if any other players were or weren't available to us but put me down as someone who believes that we have had other options along the way and that while Sturm might return to being the kind of player that he has been, he is sort of a gamble and with work I for one believe that we could have taken a different option.


Look at it this way, based on DL's history to you think that he will continue to try and fill the glaring hole that we have had at LW for the past few years (on the first line) or now that MS is likely to be a King that he will sit back and wait to see how things work?

If he doesn't sign MS then maybe he keeps working on finding a player who doesn't have a serious history of major knee injuries and who might be a more long term solution to our problem.

The players are out there and there are teams who are already seeing that they aren't likely to be contenders and as each week passes they will become more and more willing to deal away a few of the types of players that we might actually want and or need on a long term basis.

MS can be that guy *IF* we get pretty lucky. He is a *nice* player to add to our team and if I thought that DL would keep looking for the perfect fit to fill our first line LW needs for the long haul then I would be perfectly happy throwing MS into the mix.

DL doesn't have a history of working in that way and in my opinion won't change his pattern now.

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12-11-2010, 09:20 PM
  #52
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Oh and DS 25 I agree with you on where we are currently on being legitimate SC contenders but, I do think that given the right player and the right set of circumstances that our fortunes could quickly change and that we could be allot closer as a result.

MS just isn't likely to be the guy any longer to be able to do what we need him to do in order to help bring us to becoming contenders. We need a legitimate top six sniper with speed. We didn't get one yet and don't have one in the wings who is ready just yet.

I think that if we addressed that need that we would be all set and ready to start making a serious run.

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12-11-2010, 09:29 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Why does everyone think this is so easy? Who is this mythical top line player that is available for picks and prospects?
The Kings are not near enough to being cup contenders to be trading part of their young core to take a shot this year. You can only get a legit top line player in his prime by trading Johnson, Brown and/or Quick.

Sturm is a zero risk trade for the Kings. Dean wasn't going to use the cap space for anyone significant this season anyways. Richards isn't going to get traded when Dallas is a top 3 seed and they certainly won't trade him in the Pacific division. There was a reason that Chicago traded their players to the East. Dean had zero shot at any of their players.

If Sturm fails completey, it doesn't cost the Kings anything significant and doesn't prevent Dean from trying to sign any FAs this summer.

Even Boston's GM has said how hard it is to make deals no of days. People think the real life world is fantasy hockey.

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12-11-2010, 09:31 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
I don't necessarily agree with you, and DL in his heart of hearts, 5 years into a 5 year plan shouldn't agree with you. A top line playmaker would be a worthwhile move this season... Offensively this team is a sleeping giant waiting for a top player to wake them up. When they wake up, look the hell out because we have the goaltending and defensive structure to be a lot of team's worst nightmare when healthy.
How do you get that 1st line LW in his prime without giving up top players?

You can't make 1 trade and become the Red Wings overnight. You have to build from within and keep your assets. Look how old the Kings are, they have a lot of room to grow. No sense in trading Johnson or Brown or Quick or even Schenn to try and fit an outsider into the room and system. Martinez should be opening some eyes and should at least show how you need to hang on to your youth and let them grow with the organization. Who knows, maybe he allows Dean to trade Voynov or Hickey.

The Kings are very young and Manchester is looking strong and are also very young. Does anyone really think that Semin will be traded by Washington during the season? What other top line LW is "available"?

If Semin or Richards become available for picks/prospects, then I'm sure Dean will be the first to line-up and try to make a deal. The Kings just have too many of their own "core" players to re-sign first. Get Doughty and Johnson locked up long term and then make the moves to build the final pieces of a Stanley Cup champion.

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12-11-2010, 09:52 PM
  #55
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Hey ds25.

Just out of curiosity, would you rather have Sturm with his pro rated $3.25 and his history of knee injuries (and the fact that he is returning from a 7 month layoff as the result of the second major knee injury in as many years) for a 5th to potential 3rd round pick.

Or

Would you rather have had Malone for the cost one of our young up and coming D (A-Mart, Muzz,VV or even DD44) and a 3rd round pick? (though the potential of the pick becoming Moller would be possible so consider that as well).

Or

Would you rather have had Penner for a package of one of A-Mart,Muzz or DD44 and Elkins or a 3rd?

Or

Would you rather have had a swap that involved N Filatov for Hickey plus a 3rd?

Just curious if you would rather have or have had Sturm than any of these other players. Call it a rhetorical question.

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12-11-2010, 09:54 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How do you get that 1st line LW in his prime without giving up top players?.
Why do you think we've been stockpiling players? there's no way the Kings can sign all their RFA's and stay cap friendly, might as well get something for one or two of them.

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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
You can't make 1 trade and become the Red Wings overnight.
Who said anything about becoming the Red Wings? Having said that, Hossa sure helped put the Hawks over the hump, and they're still a cup contender after their ridiculous last offseason.

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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
You have to build from within and keep your assets.
I think they have done a pretty good job of that the last 5 years. But I think it's time to bring in that guy who will get us over the hump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
No sense in trading Johnson or Brown or Quick or even Schenn to try and fit an outsider into the room and system.
I still contend Johnson wants more money than he's worth considering all the other RFA's the Kings have this offseason and facing more CBA issues coming up (possible more cap reduction)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Does anyone really think that Semin will be traded by Washington during the season? What other top line LW is "available"?
you have a crystal ball? cuz I don't, but that works both ways... a guy could become available that you never would have imagined... remember cap space is a big deal, that's how Sturm and Modin got here for nothing.

Season seat holders just called...they said remind DL that there is a level of expectation on this team and one key offensive player could make the difference on one of the best defensive teams in the league. They said they're tired of spending thousands and waiting.

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Old
12-11-2010, 09:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Hey ds25.

Just out of curiosity, would you rather have Sturm with his pro rated $3.25 and his history of knee injuries (and the fact that he is returning from a 7 month layoff as the result of the second major knee injury in as many years) for a 5th to potential 3rd round pick.

Or

Would you rather have had Malone for the cost one of our young up and coming D (A-Mart, Muzz,VV or even DD44) and a 3rd round pick? (though the potential of the pick becoming Moller would be possible so consider that as well).

Or

Would you rather have had Penner for a package of one of A-Mart,Muzz or DD44 and Elkins or a 3rd?

Or

Would you rather have had a swap that involved N Filatov for Hickey plus a 3rd?

Just curious if you would rather have or have had Sturm than any of these other players. Call it a rhetorical question.
Sturm... not sure why the last, or any really, has a dependency on a Sturm deal...

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12-11-2010, 10:00 PM
  #58
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It goes back to something that ds25 and I were posting to each other.

Otherwise it would be taken out of context.

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12-11-2010, 10:00 PM
  #59
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A win, win move for me. Hopefully he passes his physical with flying colors. At best, we get another 20+ goal scoring threat that adds more speed to our lineup. If he doesn't return to form, we lose a mid round pick at worst. I'm okay with that.

Good move Dean.

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Old
12-11-2010, 10:02 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Hey ds25.

Just out of curiosity, would you rather have Sturm with his pro rated $3.25 and his history of knee injuries (and the fact that he is returning from a 7 month layoff as the result of the second major knee injury in as many years) for a 5th to potential 3rd round pick.
I don't think Boston will get a draft pick from the Kings. Their GM said he was traded for nothing. Maybe a 7th if he Kings win the cup.

Or
Quote:
Would you rather have had Malone for the cost one of our young up and coming D (A-Mart, Muzz,VV or even DD44) and a 3rd round pick? (though the potential of the pick becoming Moller would be possible so consider that as well).
I personally don't like Malone and his cap hit, but that would be a decent package for him. I feel he is overpaid for what he brings. Doughty and Johnson need contracts first.

Or
Quote:
Would you rather have had Penner for a package of one of A-Mart,Muzz or DD44 and Elkins or a 3rd?
I would make this trade, but I think Dean has questions about Penner's character.

Or
Quote:
Would you rather have had a swap that involved N Filatov for Hickey plus a 3rd?
I would make that trade in a heartbeat, but again I think Dean questions Filatov's heart.

Quote:
Just curious if you would rather have or have had Sturm than any of these other players. Call it a rhetorical question.
I would have signed Gaborik for what NY is paying him before any of the trades presented here. I was extremely upset that Dean passed on Gaborik when he gave Dean the option to match the NY deal.

Kovalchuk was a pipe dream with his ******* agent involved. No chance he would have signed here.

Hossa wanted a cup and the Kings weren't close enough, can't blame Dean for that.

Gaborik would have only cost the Kings cap space and they would still be in a great position to trade their youth for immediate help, only a top line wing wouldn't be needed.

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12-11-2010, 10:02 PM
  #61
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12-11-2010, 10:04 PM
  #62
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I agree that the cost is good for us either way as long as the deal goes through.

I don't see that as being questioned at all.

For the price MS is a good deal even if he comes in and falls to being a spot player which I would find unlikely.

Is he the answer to our top 6 LW?

That's kind of the question.

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12-11-2010, 10:04 PM
  #63
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Another thing to remember is that most top line players have NTC/NMC, this really handcuffs GMs when trying to make deals. Not a lot of players want to play in the West if they have the choice.

Do you really think Philly wanted to trade Gagne to Tampa? I'm sure he would have loved to send him out West instead.

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12-11-2010, 10:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree that the cost is good for us either way as long as the deal goes through.

I don't see that as being questioned at all.

For the price MS is a good deal even if he comes in and falls to being a spot player which I would find unlikely.

Is he the answer to our top 6 LW?

That's kind of the question.
Sturm gives us a much better option on the top line than any of the kids. At least until Parse gets back. His speed could also be used very well on the 3rd line if you promote Simmonds or Poni. Sturm has the ability to play on any line and all situations. His speed will create a lot more space for Brown and Kopitar. He will back off defenders and will give Kopitar that extra half second to snap off some deadly wrist shots.

If Parise becomes available, then you trade a Johnson ++ to make the deal happen.

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Old
12-11-2010, 10:16 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't think Boston will get a draft pick from the Kings. Their GM said he was traded for nothing. Maybe a 7th if he Kings win the cup.

Or


I personally don't like Malone and his cap hit, but that would be a decent package for him. I feel he is overpaid for what he brings. Doughty and Johnson need contracts first.

Or


I would make this trade, but I think Dean has questions about Penner's character.

Or


I would make that trade in a heartbeat, but again I think Dean questions Filatov's heart.



I would have signed Gaborik for what NY is paying him before any of the trades presented here. I was extremely upset that Dean passed on Gaborik when he gave Dean the option to match the NY deal.

Kovalchuk was a pipe dream with his ******* agent involved. No chance he would have signed here.

Hossa wanted a cup and the Kings weren't close enough, can't blame Dean for that.

Gaborik would have only cost the Kings cap space and they would still be in a great position to trade their youth for immediate help, only a top line wing wouldn't be needed.

Thanks ds25

Those are the questions for me and while we disagree on Malone (value and hit) we agree on the rest of the deals. The UFA signings don't really enter into it for me as I don't see DL as being capable of actually making a successful deal with the type of UFA that we need.

Another question would be do you think that signing MS will end DL's search for the kind of impact player that we need for the run or do you think that he will continue looking for one?

Broken down, my concerns are that DL has had a few very solid opportunities to address our actual need(s), two of which are mentioned in my question post and both of which were pretty solid deals in my opinion and instead he once again takes a runner and fills the spot with a questionable player.

Not that MS is a King yet and if/when he does become one that he absolutely won't work out, he might be great for us, I honestly don't know which MS we will be getting but when it comes to DL actually going out and addressing a specific need that we have I am not really pleased with what he has done so far.

I have always liked MS and think that even if he doesn't come back to 100% that he will still be a valuable player for us in spot use situations. I like the deal in that regards.

My concerns are that DL has had other opportunities to actually bring in the kind of player(s) who have a much greater shot at giving us what we are looking for than MS and that now that he (dl) has made this deal that he will wait and see what happens. In the mean time we end up waisting time on trying to fill the actual need(s) that we have while waiting to see if a one year LW who has had two major knee surgeries in the past two off seasons can catch lightning again.

Bring in MS, sure.

Rely on him to be or become our actual top line LW? I am not certain that we are doing the right thing there but that is just my opinion.

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12-11-2010, 10:27 PM
  #66
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Sturm just feels a need for this season. This is just a deadline deal done sooner because the player is injured and a team needs cap relief without trading anyone from their active roster. This is the "something will come up" Dean that we see here.

Now that the Kings are truly building something, I think some fans are getting impatient again. I sure hope AEG doesn't.

"Core"
Kopitar 23
Brown 26
Doughty 21
Johnson 23
Quick 24
Bernier 22
Simmonds 22

Under 30 roster players:

Stoll 28
Martinez 23
Richardson 25
Greene 27
Clifford 19
Lewis 23
Williams 29
Westgarth 26
Harrold 27
Drewiske 26


That is a lot of roster players under 30 years old and most under 25.

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12-11-2010, 10:32 PM
  #67
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Ehhh we'll see how he does. Someone mentioned it already but I don't think he's gonna do much after not playing for so long.

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12-11-2010, 11:10 PM
  #68
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Ehhh we'll see how he does. Someone mentioned it already but I don't think he's gonna do much after not playing for so long.
If he passes the physical that means that he is done with his re-hab. Then he would need another month + to get back into hockey condition, which he won't be allowed to. We've seen this before with Handzus, Williams and Blake recently-players coming off major surgery struggle until they have an entire off season to train rather than re-hab. Sturm will be at less than 100% for the entire season and his stats from last season were dreadful. The upside I am hoping for is he gets more PP time and his numbers jump or he is ready to go and playing for a big money deal. I think Sturm bombs out based on the Kings past history of acquiring players coming off major injury.

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12-11-2010, 11:21 PM
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If he passes the physical that means that he is done with his re-hab. Then he would need another month + to get back into hockey condition, which he won't be allowed to. We've seen this before with Handzus, Williams and Blake recently-players coming off major surgery struggle until they have an entire off season to train rather than re-hab. Sturm will be at less than 100% for the entire season and his stats from last season were dreadful. The upside I am hoping for is he gets more PP time and his numbers jump or he is ready to go and playing for a big money deal. I think Sturm bombs out based on the Kings past history of acquiring players coming off major injury.
Yep I agree.

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12-11-2010, 11:28 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
Yep I agree.
And the only cost to find out is AEG's money. I'm not worried. It does nothing to prevent Dean from making bigger moves in the off-season or trade deadline.

Kings still have plenty of cap space to make a deadline deal for anyone in the league.

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12-12-2010, 05:58 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
Finally, our top line troubles are over!*





* Is what I'll say if Sturm somehow, some way doesn't spend the rest of this year looking like Bambi on ice.

Hah, this deal reminds me of alot of the trade the Kings made to get Martin Straka a few years ago. Straka did ok with the Kings but really didn't make much of an impact.

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12-12-2010, 08:43 AM
  #72
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LA Kings Add Offensive Depth By Acquiring Left Wing Marco Sturm

My story on the deal...

LA Kings Add Offensive Depth By Acquiring Left Wing Marco Sturm

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12-12-2010, 10:52 AM
  #73
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From a risk reward standpoint, this deal isn't horrible
LOL... "isn't horrible"? From a risk/reward standpoint, the deal is the best possible deal in the history of mankind.

Dean essentially signed a UFA 20-goal scorer since he got him for free via trade. That almost never happens (yes, players are traded for "nothing" every now and then, but not one of the highest scoring guys on your team).

There is no downside. Either the guy works out and is re-signed to a short term deal or he doesn't and he's off the books next year. Dean basically pulled a trade miracle out of his ass.

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12-12-2010, 11:05 AM
  #74
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LOL... "isn't horrible"? From a risk/reward standpoint, the deal is the best possible deal in the history of mankind.

Dean essentially signed a UFA 20-goal scorer since he got him for free via trade. That almost never happens (yes, players are traded for "nothing" every now and then, but not one of the highest scoring guys on your team).

There is no downside. Either the guy works out and is re-signed to a short term deal or he doesn't and he's off the books next year. Dean basically pulled a trade miracle out of his ass.
Well, sort of. The Bruins had to let him go...had to. They couldn't bring him back because of the cap hit. And Sturm's no-trade clause prevented him from being moved unless he agreed to go.

Once Chiarelli had discussions with what is sure to have been several teams and went back to Sturm with the possibilities, LA was the place he wanted ot go. And no one with a lick of sense (I'll go out on a limb here and assume DL has a lick of sense) was going to offer anything much at all for him because a) they didn't need to since the trade was being driven by Boston who was between a rock and hard place, and b) his age and his two repaired knees, one of which is completely untested, make him a risky investment.

Sturm has a habit of disappearing from the scoresheet for extended periods of time. If he regains his speed and can stay healthy, you've got a great contender. If not, you've got an albatross of a contract for I think a year.

This is a good gamble. He came out strong following his first knee surgery and looked pretty good until the second mishap. Good luck with him. He's a warrior (and you're going to love his goal face).

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12-12-2010, 01:15 PM
  #75
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Hah, this deal reminds me of alot of the trade the Kings made to get Martin Straka a few years ago. Straka did ok with the Kings but really didn't make much of an impact.
IIRC, Straka was traded for with an exisiting inury. Somebody should dig up the story. Whether or not he disclosed that to the Kings I don't remember. Anson Carter was traded for with a hernia. Bure, McCauley, Cloutier, Rob Blake was coming off major hip surgery and Lombardi gave him 6 million dollars. Roenick was fat and apparently signed sight unseen. All you had to do is get him to take his shirt off, throw him some In & Out gift certificates and say no thanks. AEG must not pay doctors cause the guys who are in charge of investigating injury history SUCK at their job. The MRI machine must be covered in dust and unplugged.

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