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Secrets from the Leafs’ real boss (Dec.12/10)

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Old
12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
  #26
Caius Merlyn
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
If there was a long line up of buyers waiting to buy the Arrow, the British firm A E Roe would have built them as long as the buyers would pay for them. The Arrow died because there were no buyers. There were no buyers because only three countries in the world(the three largest) had any possible need for a long-range patrol fighter. Obviously, any NATO country would refrain from supplying the enemy any war material. In conclusion; the Arrow died from a lack of a market not some evil American military-industrial complex conspiracy. I realize that this conspiracy theory is religion for the Canadian left but it does not stand up to scrutiny.
Well said.

Sometimes people get carried away watching CBC documentries

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12-12-2010, 07:12 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
If there was a long line up of buyers waiting to buy the Arrow, the British firm A E Roe would have built them as long as the buyers would pay for them. The Arrow died because there were no buyers. There were no buyers because only three countries in the world(the three largest) had any possible need for a long-range patrol fighter. Obviously, any NATO country would refrain from supplying the enemy any war material. In conclusion; the Arrow died from a lack of a market not some evil American military-industrial complex conspiracy. I realize that this conspiracy theory is religion for the Canadian left but it does not stand up to scrutiny.
The arrow was killed before avro was allowed to properly market it. If avro had been given the green light on the arrow it would of caught a lot of countries off guard, infact in its testing phase it was already doing this.

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12-12-2010, 07:15 PM
  #28
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It's simple. Richard Peddie secretly ruined and shut down the Avro Arrow program just like he ruined the Leafs and Raps.

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12-12-2010, 08:07 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
If there was a long line up of buyers waiting to buy the Arrow, the British firm A E Roe would have built them as long as the buyers would pay for them. The Arrow died because there were no buyers. There were no buyers because only three countries in the world(the three largest) had any possible need for a long-range patrol fighter. Obviously, any NATO country would refrain from supplying the enemy any war material. In conclusion; the Arrow died from a lack of a market not some evil American military-industrial complex conspiracy. I realize that this conspiracy theory is religion for the Canadian left but it does not stand up to scrutiny.
Both the uk and france showed considerable interest in the arrow. In 1956 the uk air council submitted a request stating that the RAF Should buy 144 arrows. The French were originally interested in buying 300 iroqoius engines to fit into their miragez, however they opted out in 58 for the atar engine.

I believe that the US had a hand in changing the minds of the French and the English. Again, the US defence industry had a lot to lose in allowing a Canadian company to out design them and revolutionize the military aircraft industry, like avro was posed to do.

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12-12-2010, 08:15 PM
  #30
scarlet512
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What does the Avro Arrow have to do with the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Absolutely nothing whatsoever

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12-12-2010, 08:29 PM
  #31
Drmckool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
If there was a long line up of buyers waiting to buy the Arrow, the British firm A E Roe would have built them as long as the buyers would pay for them. The Arrow died because there were no buyers. There were no buyers because only three countries in the world(the three largest) had any possible need for a long-range patrol fighter. Obviously, any NATO country would refrain from supplying the enemy any war material. In conclusion; the Arrow died from a lack of a market not some evil American military-industrial complex conspiracy. I realize that this conspiracy theory is religion for the Canadian left but it does not stand up to scrutiny.
That is 1/2 correct. There was massive American pressure to scrap the project and move towards ICBM's as a nuclear delivery system during the Project. It was seen by the Diefenbaker government as unnecessary spending considering this and the previously mentioned lack of buyers. Though scrapping the project did cost 20,000 jobs and destroy the Canadian WW2 reputation as the aerodrome of democracy.

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12-12-2010, 08:53 PM
  #32
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Something like this comes to mind..


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12-12-2010, 10:33 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
No, they are spending more, much more, 55 million salary plus 15-20 million in revenue sharing.
+ a more expensive GM, more money in facilities, and much more money in scouting.

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12-12-2010, 11:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sidmo001 View Post
Both the uk and france showed considerable interest in the arrow. In 1956 the uk air council submitted a request stating that the RAF Should buy 144 arrows. The French were originally interested in buying 300 iroqoius engines to fit into their miragez, however they opted out in 58 for the atar engine.

I believe that the US had a hand in changing the minds of the French and the English. Again, the US defence industry had a lot to lose in allowing a Canadian company to out design them and revolutionize the military aircraft industry, like avro was posed to do.
You are correct.

Lets not forget the fact that after the Arrow was scrapped we entered into a binding treaty with the USA that states Canada can not develop on our own any large military hardware.

We scared the crap out of them and they put the hammer down.

What was the point again to shred all the blue prints and destroy all the finished prototypes?

Since when does cutting edge leading technology just go poof?

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12-12-2010, 11:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by sidmo001 View Post
Freely made?

Canada signed on to NORAD in '57. When Canada signed on with the Americans on NORAD, the Americans had a vested interest to make sure Canada accepted the SAGE program. The Arrow came in to direct conflict with the SAGE program because if Canada went through with production of the Arrow there would be no need for the BOMARC Nuclear-tipped missile, which was one of the primary weapon systems that made up the SAGE program.

Basically the US Defence industry had a lot to lose, money wise, if Canada didn't accept the use of the BOMARC. Plus the US Defence industry didn't want any competition north of the border.

The US had quite a bit more to do with the destruction of the Arrow than a lot of people care to believe.
You could not be more correct sir.

Lets not forget the treaty we had to sign with the states not long after the Arrows demise.

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12-13-2010, 12:57 AM
  #36
Caius Merlyn
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Man I can't wait till Michael Moore arrives and explains his theories on how the USA created the AIDS virus.

Maybe after we can discuss details about how teflon and fiberoptics were brought to the Illuminati from aliens.

So what are everyone's doomsday predictions for 2012?

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12-13-2010, 05:16 AM
  #37
MuchoMacho
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
Man I can't wait till Michael Moore arrives and explains his theories on how the USA created the AIDS virus.

Maybe after we can discuss details about how teflon and fiberoptics were brought to the Illuminati from aliens.

So what are everyone's doomsday predictions for 2012?
i lol'd

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Old
12-13-2010, 06:58 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
If there was a long line up of buyers waiting to buy the Arrow, the British firm A E Roe would have built them as long as the buyers would pay for them. The Arrow died because there were no buyers. There were no buyers because only three countries in the world(the three largest) had any possible need for a long-range patrol fighter. Obviously, any NATO country would refrain from supplying the enemy any war material. In conclusion; the Arrow died from a lack of a market not some evil American military-industrial complex conspiracy. I realize that this conspiracy theory is religion for the Canadian left but it does not stand up to scrutiny.
1. I seriously doubt that the Arrow was actually a very good aircraft.
2. Since when does military manufacturing have to have a foreign market to sell its product?
An aside: Currently if we're talking about protecting national sovereignty, buying aircraft from the very people you're really protecting your sovereignty from is equivalent to a warless defeat. The better solution to buying planes from the U.S. is to disband your air force and let the U.S. bankrupt themselves protecting your vast air space from whatever imaginary enemy. The U.S. has been invaded economically and pretty soon they will be protecting continental U.S. from an enemy who own them anyways.

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Old
12-13-2010, 10:25 AM
  #39
rimshot
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
Man I can't wait till Michael Moore arrives and explains his theories on how the USA created the AIDS virus.

Maybe after we can discuss details about how teflon and fiberoptics were brought to the Illuminati from aliens.

So what are everyone's doomsday predictions for 2012?
I predict that the Illuminati will buy the Leafs and appoint Michael Moore as president. Moore then hires Ken Dryden as GM and he hires Michael Ignatiev as coach. The team goes into a tail-spin and becomes less popular than Harper in Newfoundland. Die-hard fans go nuts and assault the Pickering Nuclear powerplant with waffles. The plant goes into melt-down and sets off a chain reaction that destroys most of the world and allows the hated Habs to cruise to victory in the Cup playoffs.

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Old
12-13-2010, 12:59 PM
  #40
RobBrown4PM
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Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
1. I seriously doubt that the Arrow was actually a very good aircraft.
The full capabilities of the Arrow are something that is still debated to this date. But I would imagine if you were to talk to most historians and those who have knowledge of the program you would find that the Arrow was a remarkable aircraft for it's time, and even to this date.

Read this article, it was written by a University of Waterloo studen on the Arrow. It goes over how the plane would compare to today's standards.

http://iwarrior.uwaterloo.ca/props/?...98&format=html

"These engines were heavier than the Canadian designed Orenda PS-13 Iroquois, which was an absolutely phenomenal design for the time, and provided approximately 26,500lbs of afterburning thrust. In fact, the Iroquois engine was powerful enough to get the Arrow supersonic without afterburner, a feat that the Americans have only duplicated in the F22, which won’t even be in service until 2005!"


Quote:
2. Since when does military manufacturing have to have a foreign market to sell its product?
It doesn't, however it's usually benefecial, and usually needed, if smaller countries defence industries begin building advanced high-tech weaponry/vehicles et cetra. This is usually done to supplement the massive costs of R&D, manufacturing, maitenance, et cetra.

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Old
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
  #41
kyle747
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Originally Posted by scarlet512 View Post
What does the Avro Arrow have to do with the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Absolutely nothing whatsoever
Everything. Both are a symbol of the culture of mediocrity that pervades Ontario.

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