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Who is the Most Complete Player of All-Time?

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Old
12-06-2010, 10:21 PM
  #126
Jafar
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I know that How dominated offensively , but from what I've seen he still lacked pure offensive skills more than Bobby Orr lacked any of the physical or other intangibles skills so I gotta give it to bobby.

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12-07-2010, 06:58 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
If you want a guy to win the Cup with, the answer is Jean Beliveau.
Yeah, this is the guy that I was thinking about, too. Plus Orr and Howe. Fedorov would be right up there, though.

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Old
12-07-2010, 03:38 PM
  #128
Budddy
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Once again, no. Orr stands alone among defencemen in terms of overall play. And quite frankly noone is even close to "right up there" as you stated.

You can say that other defencemen are up there defensively with Orr, but none of those guys even come close to Orr's offensively ability. Bourque himself was great offensively. Even so, his offensive ability pales in comparison to Orr. They're not in the same conversation in this regard. Orr stands alone.

In addition, Orr possessed a mean streak that Bourque can't compare with.

Bourque was a great defencemen - one of the best ever - there's no question about that. But Bourque and every other defencemen to ever lace them up simply do not compare to Orr in terms of overall play.
lol...read it again...right up there to me means is a elite player in the top 3 or 4 of alltime which is where Ray is..Orr will always be number 1...I said that earlier....the whole thread was about complete players,not comparing Bourque to Orr...

This is hilarious...Orr is my fav of all time..always will be...

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Old
12-08-2010, 06:11 PM
  #129
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Federov is number #1 for me. Not to many forwards can switch to D and be good at it and switch back to forward and be good at that.

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Old
12-08-2010, 08:35 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by straka91 View Post
Federov is number #1 for me. Not to many forwards can switch to D and be good at it and switch back to forward and be good at that.
Yeah, it's not like Bobby Orr didn't do that every shift.

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Old
12-08-2010, 09:36 PM
  #131
Caballo Blanco
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Eric Lindros. Was the best player and enforcer in the league for years.

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12-09-2010, 07:34 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
For starters I always find it puzzling when people say "well the game is faster now, I don't know how Wayne would fare. I believe Hockey Outsider mentioned just how good Gretzky still was at 36-37 years old, WELL past his prime in a low scoring era as long as...............12 years ago!

But I'll bring up something that always debunks the theory that yesterday's superstars couldn't make it today. What you are saying is that the AVERAGE player has gotten a bit bigger and faster since the 1980s right? I agree. But why do people believe that the AVERAGE joes of the NHL would improve but the superstars wouldn't? In other words if Gretzky has the training of today's athletes he'd be faster and stronger too. There has never been any evidence that Gretzky wouldn't be just as good if not better in the NHL today. Observe:

No red line - anyone that saw Gretzky might just snicker at the fits he'd cause opponents with this one

A team on a power play automatically has a faceoff in the opposing end - this didn't happen in the 1980s or even 1990s. Not a big deal, but there has been many a power play goal scored off the draw that otherwise wouldn't have occured there

Less clutching and grabbing - sure there's the trap and coaching has become more defensive minded but things are easier for the skilled players when no one is tugging and hooking onto you


Bottom line is this, Gretzky didn't excel in the NHL because he was fast. He excelled because he was smart and had vision. This is something I think is Crosby's best attribute as well. He's faster than Gretzky but his anticipation and hockey sense are what make him what he is. Gretzky saw the ice better than anyone else, that's why he was great. That translates into the best player on the ice in any era.

Also let's look at John Tavares by the time his career is over. His skating was worse than Gretzky's compared to his peers. Yet he broke Gretzky's goal record in the OHL as a 16 year old. If you watch Tavares he doesn't blow by defenders either, he's just smart. Now Tavares is not going to have Gretzky's career, but he'll have a great one and it just goes to show you how a smart player will always be elite in any era.
Great points here.

And let me add that Henrik Sedin, famous for his blazing speed, led the league in scoring last season.

If Henrik could get 112 points, Gretzky would tear this NHL a new one.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:53 PM
  #133
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Kelly.


While Gretzky was the best player ever, and Trottier the most clutch.. Kelly was a superstar as d and f.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:57 PM
  #134
CHGoalie27
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Ovechkin.

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:24 PM
  #135
DJ Man
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http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=28003254&postcount=1

Jerry Toppazzini -- the last man to play all six positions!


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Old
12-11-2010, 01:08 AM
  #136
The Big Swede
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Gretzkyhe didn't need to play defense,he always had the puck

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Old
12-11-2010, 01:32 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
Gretzkyhe didn't need to play defense,he always had the puck
if gretzky had always controlled the puck, he would not have been on the ice for 2285 GA, the most of all players in history.

also would not have been -25 as the art ross winner in '94.

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Old
12-11-2010, 05:31 AM
  #138
Merya
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Erich Kuhnhackl is up there. Better than Lindros with similar game, except Kuhnkackl was a better sniper, and never would've been concussed in the NHL. Kinda sad he didn't want or get a chance in the NHL. Even the soviets put 2-3 men to guard him.

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Old
12-11-2010, 08:20 AM
  #139
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merya View Post
Erich Kuhnhackl is up there. Better than Lindros with similar game, except Kuhnkackl was a better sniper, and never would've been concussed in the NHL. Kinda sad he didn't want or get a chance in the NHL. Even the soviets put 2-3 men to guard him.
Are you really serious?

He was great in Germany and scored goals against some weak teams in international play but do you really think that he would have ever been the MVP in the NHL?

If so please provide us with more information.

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Old
12-11-2010, 01:14 PM
  #140
Merya
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Are you really serious?

He was great in Germany and scored goals against some weak teams in international play but do you really think that he would have ever been the MVP in the NHL?

If so please provide us with more information.
I can only go by what I saw in international games. He was the German team. Whenever he was on the ice, the opposition would kinda turtle or guard him heavily, and it didn't even work usually. When he wasn't on the ice, Germans were their normal low level. He alone raised Germany to be a threat.

I believe if he adapted well, he could've been mvp in NHL yes. I think if everything clicked, he could've been a better (and much nastier) version of Jagr. Probably the closest resemblance to prime Howe that I've seen live.

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Old
12-11-2010, 10:59 PM
  #141
Bohemian93
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Wasn't Bryan Trottier considered one of the best 2 way players in the game during his prime?

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Old
12-12-2010, 08:38 AM
  #142
Jaymond Flurrie
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How about Eddie Shore? What did he miss?

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Old
12-12-2010, 10:09 PM
  #143
Up the Irons
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complete player: scores goals, sets up goals, hits, fights, intimidates, makes teammates better, scores clutch goals, good defensively, plays best in biggest games, great leader.

one man stands alone: the moose, Mark Messier.

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Old
12-12-2010, 11:50 PM
  #144
oil4life14
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Messier

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