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Post #470: Zherdev lower body injury, not likely to play January 6th

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Old
12-13-2010, 09:44 AM
  #76
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Crazy line idea I had yesterday:

Split HBL:

Leino-Richards-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev/Nodl
Hartnell-Carter-Nodl/Zherdev

Carter does well with grinders, Richards plays d for Leino and Briere

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12-13-2010, 09:44 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
He is not comfortable that close to the goalie in tight quarters where he might sustain a hit.
Well, that explains why he's always in front of the net.

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12-13-2010, 10:09 AM
  #78
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Well, that explains why he's always in front of the net.
He is not always in front of the net, he has gotten better at going to the front of the net but he is not going to be like Briere or Giroux digging in the crease or the corners, he would prefer to play more along the perimeter. He has gotten better, but he is still shy from areas where he has to use his body and size.

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12-13-2010, 10:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Crazy line idea I had yesterday:

Split HBL:

Leino-Richards-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev/Nodl
Hartnell-Carter-Nodl/Zherdev

Carter does well with grinders, Richards plays d for Leino and Briere
I like it in theory, but I'm scared of breaking up HBL.

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12-13-2010, 10:15 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
He is not always in front of the net, he has gotten better at going to the front of the net but he is not going to be like Briere or Giroux digging in the crease or the corners, he would prefer to play more along the perimeter. He has gotten better, but he is still shy from areas where he has to use his body and size.
Dude, he's always in front of the net. He's one of the few guys on this team that consistently goes to the front and sets screens.

Here's something I also want you to consider. Ask yourself these two questions:

1) How long a stick do Briere and Giroux use?

2) How long a stick does Carter use?

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12-13-2010, 10:19 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Crazy line idea I had yesterday:

Split HBL:

Leino-Richards-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev/Nodl
Hartnell-Carter-Nodl/Zherdev

Carter does well with grinders, Richards plays d for Leino and Briere
I have watched each of the lines and tried to see how Laviolette could get creative and still have some balance. The x-factors are Zherdev and Carter. Both seem to be a tough fit and need/want the puck to create chances, so why not just pair them up?

And you do not break up the Briere line and move him to wing, he has been the best center on this team and more valuable than Carter, plus the chemistry on this line is something you do not mess with. Bottom line is if Carter is going to force Giroux to the wing you might as well put Giroux on a different line alltogether.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino: Most consistent line up to this point, even when not scoring they are creating offensive zone chances. Do not break them up.

JvR-Richards-Giroux: Giroux and JvR seemed to have some chemistry and it gives this line a bonified puck carrier in Giroux. I honestly think this line could be creative much like the HBL line and keep offensive zone pressure and a cycle of the puck.

Nodl-Carter-Zherdev: Nodl is just a guy who is going to be safe defensively and provide a player who is going to be willing to get into the crease area. Carter and Zherdev can carry the puck and shoot all they want and not hurt anyone else on the line.

Carcillo-Betts-Powe: Most likely this is the line you will see in the playoffs I would assume. They can still apply some pressure and chip in a coule goals plus be an energy line with Powe and Carcillo just focusing on the checks and physical play.

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12-13-2010, 10:22 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, he's always in front of the net. He's one of the few guys on this team that consistently goes to the front and sets screens.

Here's something I also want you to consider. Ask yourself these two questions:

1) How long a stick do Briere and Giroux use?

2) How long a stick does Carter use?
What does the size of teh stick have to do with the size of the heart to go and dig in places where you do not belong. Look at Giroux and Briere on the boards, especially Giroux, he will win the puck battles a majority of the time, same goes for Briere.

I wish Jeff Carter would give the puck up to Giroux, let him gain the zone and then have Carter go to the net and play within 10ft of the crease. As I said, he is getting better but both JvR and Carter would benefit from playing around the net a bit more.

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12-13-2010, 10:26 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
As I said, he is getting better but both JvR and Carter would benefit from playing around the net a bit more.
The only way that might be possible is if they just stand there the entire time for every shift regardless of what zone the puck is in...THEN they might stand in front of the net more than they do now.

I'm over-exaggerating a bit, but if you don't notice JVR and Carter playing in front of the net then I question your vision.

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12-13-2010, 10:28 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm over-exaggerating a bit, but if you don't notice JVR and Carter playing in front of the net then I question your vision.
Exactly. They are both in their, setting screens and trying for tips. Carter's deflections of point shots have created a couple goals lately too, I guess he's tipping them in from the corner???

Seriously, are one-issue trolls really allowed?

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Old
12-13-2010, 10:29 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What does the size of teh stick have to do with the size of the heart to go and dig in places where you do not belong. Look at Giroux and Briere on the boards, especially Giroux, he will win the puck battles a majority of the time, same goes for Briere.

I wish Jeff Carter would give the puck up to Giroux, let him gain the zone and then have Carter go to the net and play within 10ft of the crease. As I said, he is getting better but both JvR and Carter would benefit from playing around the net a bit more.
Well, I guess we finally get to the crux of it... you don't understand the nuance of what is going on out there. It has nothing to do with heart, man. It has everything to do with styles of games and the pros and cons they bring with him.

Stick length has pros and cons. The shorter the stick, the more you take away from your shot... because you can't get as much leverage out of the stick to add to the shot (this is just physics, so we'll put that to the side). The advantage of a short stick, however, is that it lets you keep the puck in tight to your body and work in traffic with greater ease (harder to check your stick).

So, Briere and Giroux both use really short sticks, which gives them a lot of advantages working in traffic (such as puck battles in the corner), and down low around the net (which is always super congested). Jeff Carter uses a rather long stick, which gives him significant advantage on his wrist shot, which makes sense because that's what his game is built around. However, it makes ZERO sense for Carter to go to high traffic areas, because his stick isn't really meant to lead to success in those areas.

On the other side of the coin, a longer stick gives you a great deal of advantage on the other side of the puck, and this is one reason Carter is miles better than Briere and Giroux defensively.

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12-13-2010, 10:40 AM
  #86
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You do not win the playoffs because of being able to shake and bake, it is the attention to details and the ability to play all three zones which matter the most. Guys who score the big goals in the playoffs are the ones who go to the net and scrap for every puck. Look at the Caps, they want to rely on outscoring the opponent, which makes for a great regular season record, but when the games come down to grind they cannot play this style and thus do not have success.
You really arent understanding at all what I'm trying to say.

I AGREE with everything you say. But the difference with the Caps is:

Philly already has a slew of players who are PO type guys who'll do well.... whereas too many Caps players are Zherdev types.

Zherdev wont do 'well' in the POs. BUT he'll pitch in a small number of very significant goals.

Why? Cuz of what you just said.

Being perceived as a not great PO guy, Zherdev will get much less ice time than the real Philly PO studs. He's only paid 2 mil a year and thus no one will feel that terrible about not giving him big ice time.

That's why Z will come thru. All the real PO studs .. on both teams ... will be exhausted. Z will be fresh.

A fresh Z is not the same as a typical 2 million dollar forward... who is also fresh and not tired cuz he has less talent.

A fresh Z is deadly cuz he CAN score a key goal.

REMEMBER the key goal and key victory Petr Klima played.

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12-13-2010, 11:28 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The only way that might be possible is if they just stand there the entire time for every shift regardless of what zone the puck is in...THEN they might stand in front of the net more than they do now.

I'm over-exaggerating a bit, but if you don't notice JVR and Carter playing in front of the net then I question your vision.
Let's not act like these two are Tim Kerr camping out waiting for the point shots here. Both guys should have the coaches draw a triangle which goes corner to corner on the goal line and out to the point inbetween the two circles. As I said, I have noticed them but both need to be more focused on where they can earn their money to help this team, their reach and ability to score with their eye-hand coordination would be best suited within 10ft of the net.

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12-13-2010, 11:31 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's not act like these two are Tim Kerr camping out waiting for the point shots here. Both guys should have the coaches draw a triangle which goes corner to corner on the goal line and out to the point inbetween the two circles. As I said, I have noticed them but both need to be more focused on where they can earn their money to help this team, their reach and ability to score with their eye-hand coordination would be best suited within 10ft of the net.
This is an utterly false statement.

Both players have the skill and shot to be playing from the dots out moving into the slot to take advantage of their shots (particularly Carter). JVR is crashing the net with regularity right now, because it hasn't quite clicked as far as taking advantage of his skill-set at this level. However, neither player should be playing like they're Scott Hartnell.

Carter, in particular, is significantly more effective in the medium range away from the net, where he an be clear of traffic and release his shot.

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12-13-2010, 11:36 AM
  #89
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Well, I guess we finally get to the crux of it... you don't understand the nuance of what is going on out there. It has nothing to do with heart, man. It has everything to do with styles of games and the pros and cons they bring with him.

Stick length has pros and cons. The shorter the stick, the more you take away from your shot... because you can't get as much leverage out of the stick to add to the shot (this is just physics, so we'll put that to the side). The advantage of a short stick, however, is that it lets you keep the puck in tight to your body and work in traffic with greater ease (harder to check your stick).

So, Briere and Giroux both use really short sticks, which gives them a lot of advantages working in traffic (such as puck battles in the corner), and down low around the net (which is always super congested). Jeff Carter uses a rather long stick, which gives him significant advantage on his wrist shot, which makes sense because that's what his game is built around. However, it makes ZERO sense for Carter to go to high traffic areas, because his stick isn't really meant to lead to success in those areas.

On the other side of the coin, a longer stick gives you a great deal of advantage on the other side of the puck, and this is one reason Carter is miles better than Briere and Giroux defensively.
In a shooting competiton I would take Danny Briere over Carter. Jeff Carter is 6'3", 210lbs, making excuses for him not winning the physical battles in the corners is a joke. I cannot believe you are making an excuse for Carter not going into high traffic areas because of his stick size...?? WOW! That is a first.

So Jeff Carter using his physical size over Giroux's stick size is going to not give him an advantage? That is part of knowing how to play hockey and use your body to protect the puck or create space for yourself. As I said, Carter has committed to getting in front of the net more but he should focus on being in front of the net and winning more battles along the boards.

And let's not get too far off on stick size, Giroux anticipates the play better, he has better hockey sense which puts him in postion to gain the advantage. When comparing Giroux and Carter the only clear advantage at this point is Carter on the faceoffs, but Giroux has still made a case with Laviolette who has counted on him to take some big faceoffs when needed.

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12-13-2010, 11:39 AM
  #90
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You really arent understanding at all what I'm trying to say.

I AGREE with everything you say. But the difference with the Caps is:

Philly already has a slew of players who are PO type guys who'll do well.... whereas too many Caps players are Zherdev types.

Zherdev wont do 'well' in the POs. BUT he'll pitch in a small number of very significant goals.

Why? Cuz of what you just said.

Being perceived as a not great PO guy, Zherdev will get much less ice time than the real Philly PO studs. He's only paid 2 mil a year and thus no one will feel that terrible about not giving him big ice time.

That's why Z will come thru. All the real PO studs .. on both teams ... will be exhausted. Z will be fresh.

A fresh Z is not the same as a typical 2 million dollar forward... who is also fresh and not tired cuz he has less talent.

A fresh Z is deadly cuz he CAN score a key goal.

REMEMBER the key goal and key victory Petr Klima played.
How many goals did this super star have in his playoff appearance with the Skirts? I cannot believe the naive mentality that Zherdev will be fresh. Unless he is going to meet the Wizard of Oz to get a new heart I think he will match his career playoff high.

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12-13-2010, 11:45 AM
  #91
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This is an utterly false statement.

Both players have the skill and shot to be playing from the dots out moving into the slot to take advantage of their shots (particularly Carter). JVR is crashing the net with regularity right now, because it hasn't quite clicked as far as taking advantage of his skill-set at this level. However, neither player should be playing like they're Scott Hartnell.

Carter, in particular, is significantly more effective in the medium range away from the net, where he an be clear of traffic and release his shot.
Guys need to be committed to go to the net, especially guys with size, as you pointed out his reach and stick size is compatable to being a players who can earn a paycheck around the net. It does not mean either need to be toeing the crease, but they should be playing within 10-15ft away from the net and creating screens for shots from the points or waiting for a soft spot in the zone to get a one-timer, which also means that Carter would have to develop a one-timer but I digress.

NHL goalies who see a puck from 40ft away are going to make the save every time. A team has to commit to going into the areas which are high traffic to be successful. Johnny LeClair earned a living from this, neither one of these guys are LeClair or Kerr but both have the size and ability in the 2010 wussified NHL to play the area in front of the net and be successful.

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12-13-2010, 11:59 AM
  #92
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In a shooting competiton I would take Danny Briere over Carter. Jeff Carter is 6'3", 210lbs, making excuses for him not winning the physical battles in the corners is a joke. I cannot believe you are making an excuse for Carter not going into high traffic areas because of his stick size...?? WOW! That is a first.
Well, Briere would almost certainly pick Carter in a "shooting competition" ... so you're displaying your own bias. Seriously, look at Briere's goals: how many of them are due to his "shot" plain beating the goalies? Not many. He scores around the net and in tight due to his quickness and hands. He has an accurate shot in tight, but you rarely see Briere beating the goalie from outside because he doesn't have a particularly great shot -- he does have a decent slapper coming down the right wing, but that's a different beast.

And you "cannot believe" that argument because it's fairly obvious that you're clueless. Carter would not have success playing into high traffic areas with regularity because of his choice of stick... that's just the reality.

Quote:
So Jeff Carter using his physical size over Giroux's stick size is going to not give him an advantage? That is part of knowing how to play hockey and use your body to protect the puck or create space for yourself. As I said, Carter has committed to getting in front of the net more but he should focus on being in front of the net and winning more battles along the boards.

And let's not get too far off on stick size, Giroux anticipates the play better, he has better hockey sense which puts him in postion to gain the advantage. When comparing Giroux and Carter the only clear advantage at this point is Carter on the faceoffs, but Giroux has still made a case with Laviolette who has counted on him to take some big faceoffs when needed.
You ever watch Steven Downie? Guy is a *ing beast in the corner on the puck.

Shorter stick.

Forsberg?

Short as sin stick.

It's a conscious choice. The stick length gives you tremendous advantage in tight, whereas a long stick gives you significant disadvantage as, by necessity, you have to expose the puck to the opposition in order to carry the puck on your stick. Carter is NEVER going to be exceptional along the boards, and moving him to the area directly in front of the net nullifies the skill that separates him from other NHL players: his shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Guys need to be committed to go to the net, especially guys with size, as you pointed out his reach and stick size is compatable to being a players who can earn a paycheck around the net. It does not mean either need to be toeing the crease, but they should be playing within 10-15ft away from the net and creating screens for shots from the points or waiting for a soft spot in the zone to get a one-timer, which also means that Carter would have to develop a one-timer but I digress.

NHL goalies who see a puck from 40ft away are going to make the save every time. A team has to commit to going into the areas which are high traffic to be successful. Johnny LeClair earned a living from this, neither one of these guys are LeClair or Kerr but both have the size and ability in the 2010 wussified NHL to play the area in front of the net and be successful.
And both do play there... a lot. Which is why this argument by you is further evidence that you're an unobjective hater... and paired with your lack of understanding concerning stick length and what that means about how a player can/should play suggests you don't really know what you're talking about.

If Carter or JVR (who also uses a long stick) really tried to play in traffic the way Giroux and Briere do, they'd get stripped with regularity. In fact, JVR does try to play in traffic the way they do (he has some dangle in his game that Carter does not), and it has caused problem for him at this level because NHL defenders just take him off the puck.

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12-13-2010, 12:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Guys need to be committed to go to the net, especially guys with size, as you pointed out his reach and stick size is compatable to being a players who can earn a paycheck around the net. It does not mean either need to be toeing the crease, but they should be playing within 10-15ft away from the net and creating screens for shots from the points or waiting for a soft spot in the zone to get a one-timer, which also means that Carter would have to develop a one-timer but I digress.

NHL goalies who see a puck from 40ft away are going to make the save every time. A team has to commit to going into the areas which are high traffic to be successful. Johnny LeClair earned a living from this, neither one of these guys are LeClair or Kerr but both have the size and ability in the 2010 wussified NHL to play the area in front of the net and be successful.
I agree that JVR needs to start learning to play the power-forward position similar to Leclair. But Jeff Carter does NOT have to make a living in front of the net. He is one of the only guys on the team that can score from anywhere inside the blue line. His shot is top 5 in the NHL and he is not taking advantage of that standing in front of the goalie. That is Hartnell territory. I prefer Carter around the circle with GIroux feeding him for one timers.

Carter does not play a "weak" game. He isn't a cycle player, but again - guys like Giroux play the cycle and feed Carter with time to release the wrist shot. When the puck goes the other way there is not many better regular strength players than Carter. He is great in his own end.

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12-13-2010, 12:11 PM
  #94
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Apparently zherdevs realtor has spoekwn with Nabakovs about possibly renting out his place.

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12-13-2010, 12:13 PM
  #95
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Apparently zherdevs realtor has spoekwn with Nabakovs about possibly renting out his place.
huh?

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12-13-2010, 12:19 PM
  #96
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huh?
Double Huh?

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12-13-2010, 12:19 PM
  #97
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Apparently zherdevs realtor has spoekwn with Nabakovs about possibly renting out his place.
You have to think that talks have been going on about moving Zherdev, from both the player and the coach.

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12-13-2010, 12:25 PM
  #98
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Didn't everyone else see the story that when Leighton is recalled Walker will be sent to the minors officially (already there on conditioning)? Or at least that is what rotoworld is stating. That is what I have been expecting since Walker was acquired. A trip to the AHL - he just delayed it due to injury. We just took on that contract to get rid of Gagnes. I don't think he was ever planned to be in the NHL. His 1.7M is a cheaper cap hit for a minor league player than Redden in New York and Snider has the money to pay it versus the folks in Tampa. That is why that trade doesn't bother me. Until Walker actually plays and starts causing us roster problems or points in the standings he means nothing to me. If he gets sent to the AHL, he never existed in my books.

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12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
  #99
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Didn't everyone else see the story that when Leighton is recalled Walker will be sent to the minors officially (already there on conditioning)? Or at least that is what rotoworld is stating. That is what I have been expecting since Walker was acquired. A trip to the AHL - he just delayed it due to injury. We just took on that contract to get rid of Gagnes. I don't think he was ever planned to be in the NHL. His 1.7M is a cheaper cap hit for a minor league player than Redden in New York and Snider has the money to pay it versus the folks in Tampa. That is why that trade doesn't bother me. Until Walker actually plays and starts causing us roster problems or points in the standings he means nothing to me. If he gets sent to the AHL, he never existed in my books.
While Comcast is loaded... knowingly taking on a 3 year bloated AHL contract seems like it would be a hard sell to a company that has been losing money in recent years.

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12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
  #100
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Zherdev for Setoguchi...I am assuming this is Nabokov's home in SJ and not in Russia?

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