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Old
12-14-2010, 01:00 PM
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
What about Stamkos' play made it "superstar"? He was completely unhassled behind the net and spotted an open guy in the slot. I make passes like that in a beer league.
He's a superstar. That isn't a play you see every night. Anyone can see Stamkos made an unorthodox play, but here you are, claiming it was pedestrian, heck beer league!

And here I am. People call me an irrational Bieksa defender. But look at what I have to deal with. Someone claiming they have the moves of a NHL 60 goal scorer. This is simply getting out of hand.

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12-14-2010, 01:08 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Pronger's difference = -0.19
Bieksa's difference = -1.07
All that needs to be said. The fact that LostMyGlasses can't see (or doesn't want to see) the difference between these two stats is shocking to me... That's huge.

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12-14-2010, 01:15 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
He's a superstar. That isn't a play you see every night. Anyone can see Stamkos made an unorthodox play, but here you are, claiming it was pedestrian, heck beer league!

And here I am. People call me an irrational Bieksa defender. But look at what I have to deal with. Someone claiming they have the moves of a NHL 60 goal scorer. This is simply getting out of hand.
Is it a play you don't see every night because Stamkos is a superstar or because Bieksa is an incompetent defender? Obviously the latter to anyone who understands the game of hockey.

You want to see a superstar play from Stamkos? Go re-watch the OT winner.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:23 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Bieksa gets scored on when Stamkos makes a super star play?

Lets .gif that **** and get the Kurtenbloggers to write one of their contemporary masterpieces on it! God Bless the Kurtenbloggers, Vancouver's answer to good, rigorous journalism!
Who ever said the Kurtenbloggers wrote masterpieces?
I just saw it as something that needs to be addressed, not laughed off because some guy hasn't played hockey. You don't have to play hockey or get a Phd in rocket science to know that it was a wretched play that could have been prevented.

And Stamkos made a super star play? Well, this is news to me. It was extremely preventable. Bieksa fails to move his feet enough to catch Stamkos. So he tracks him down and hits the boards about 3 or 4 feet away from him and Stamkos hardly moved. Stamkos makes a pass and they score.

The only thing that was super star about that play was the pass, which could have been prevented had Bieksa had good depth-perception on that play. Heck, if Bieksa takes the puck instead of the guy, that play doesn't happen.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:26 PM
  #305
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I just find it amusing how everyone is jumping on Bieksa's case, yet if he had have been with the team since the late 90's and were from Sweden people would forgive him for his shortcomings...

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:32 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
I just find it amusing how everyone is jumping on Bieksa's case, yet if he had have been with the team since the late 90's and were from Sweden people would forgive him for his shortcomings...
or a Hart trophy...

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:33 PM
  #307
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Hah, this thread is blowing my mind. We've officially entered back into the Ohlund arguments from Pauser. I feel like I am watching WWF.

Jim Ross: OH MY GAWD, BIEKSA IS DOWN, BIEKSA IS DOWN, THEY ARE ALL OVER HIM. SOMEBODY, STOP THIS, PLEASE, THIS MAN HAS A FAMILY, YOU HAVE - OH MY GAWD! SOMEONES COMING THROUGH THE CROWD! IT'S MATTHIAS OHLUND! WHAT IS HE DOING HERE? WHY IS HE HERE?? WHAT IS HE - OH MY GAWD, THEY ARE NOW BEATING UP OHLUND TOO! SOMEBODY STOP THIS! THE CROWD IS CHANTING "KESLER, KESLER, KESLER"


etc.

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12-14-2010, 01:37 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Hah, this thread is blowing my mind. We've officially entered back into the Ohlund arguments from Pauser. I feel like I am watching WWF.

Jim Ross: OH MY GAWD, BIEKSA IS DOWN, BIEKSA IS DOWN, THEY ARE ALL OVER HIM. SOMEBODY, STOP THIS, PLEASE, THIS MAN HAS A FAMILY, YOU HAVE - OH MY GAWD! SOMEONES COMING THROUGH THE CROWD! IT'S MATTHIAS OHLUND! WHAT IS HE DOING HERE? WHY IS HE HERE?? WHAT IS HE - OH MY GAWD, THEY ARE NOW BEATING UP OHLUND TOO! SOMEBODY STOP THIS! THE CROWD IS CHANTING "KESLER, KESLER, KESLER"


etc.
No wait...wait for it, cuz this is a good one and has been used against me before (even in my assessment of other players).

If Bieksa were Swedish, no one would be complaining about him.

Does that sound about right?

Seriously though, Bieksa does have his shortcomings, but so do Ehrhoff, Edler, Hamhuis, Ballard, Salo, Rome, Alberts, Pronger, Ohlund, Doughty, Keith, Seabrook, Redden, etc. What I've noticed in this thread is that people are willing to overlook the positives that Bieksa brings to the team while continuously harping on the negatives, meanwhile in the same game completely ignoring the shortcomings of other players. There's a clear double standard.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:43 PM
  #309
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At least last season you could say he was an offensive defenseman. What is he now? He has 5 points in 27 games, on pace for 15. He's mediocre defensively. He's not tough, unless you're talking about post-whistle scrums and fighting.

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12-14-2010, 01:45 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
At least last season you could say he was an offensive defenseman. What is he now? He has 5 points in 27 games, on pace for 15. He's mediocre defensively. He's not tough, unless you're talking about post-whistle scrums and fighting.
He's 2nd on the team in blocked shots....

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:48 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
He's a superstar. That isn't a play you see every night. Anyone can see Stamkos made an unorthodox play, but here you are, claiming it was pedestrian, heck beer league!

And here I am. People call me an irrational Bieksa defender. But look at what I have to deal with. Someone claiming they have the moves of a NHL 60 goal scorer. This is simply getting out of hand.
That was a very innocuous play that was defended poorly. It doesn't surprise me that someone in a beer league could make that play, I could make that play. The reason, why...beer league defense is very similar to Bieksa's.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:49 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
At least last season you could say he was an offensive defenseman. What is he now? He has 5 points in 27 games, on pace for 15. He's mediocre defensively. He's not tough, unless you're talking about post-whistle scrums and fighting.
This is my biggest issue; Bieksa was a valuable player because he produced points (both even strength and on the powerplay), was a tough hombre, and could move the puck up ice relatively well. He was never that great on the defensive side of the puck (a fact well masked by being partnered with Mitchell during his best seasons). Now that his offense has dried up, his decision making occasionally makes me wonder if he's drunk, and his fighting has tailed off (though he's stepped that up a bit more this season, but he should considering the reason he stopped fighting in the first place was because he became a 'valuable' player on offense) he's just another mediocre defenseman. And that's not surprising, considering as you said he was never really very good defensively to begin with.

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12-14-2010, 01:50 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
That was a very innocuous play that was defended poorly. It doesn't surprise me that someone in a beer league could make that play, I could make that play. The reason, why...beer league defense is very similar to Bieksa's.
Are you saying that Bieksa would be on par with the defensemen in your beer league??? Really?

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12-14-2010, 01:53 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
He's 2nd on the team in blocked shots....
Only because he's played 10 more games than Ballard and gets tons more ice time than Alberts.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:54 PM
  #315
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I thought the Bieksa play on Stamkos was stupid, but not because Stamkos didn't pull off a cute little move (he did). It was stupid because Bieksa lollygagged into the corner like he was going to play position, then went for a hit and gave Stamkos time to react. The play Stamkos made was the same one the Sedins use on the boards all the time. A quick stop and change in direction. If Bieksa actually wanted to hit him, he should have skated hard into the corner and hit Stamkos as he got the puck and not given him the time and space to make a play. If not, he should have maintained position and kept him against the boards and made sure not to leave an open passing lane. It was either lazy or clueless (I'd vote the latter).

That said, it wasn't much different than other defensive breakdowns and wasn't an absolutely awful play. It's just one of those plays that Bieksa seems to make about 20% more often than other defenders on the team.

What drives me nuts about Bieksa is how often he lets opposition players just skate on to the puck on the boards instead of skating hard, getting possession, and taking a hit to make the play. He gives up oodles of zone time with this "move".

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:56 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Only because he's played 10 more games than Ballard and gets tons more ice time than Alberts.
Okay, so let's trade Bieksa and give Alberts his ice-time. Sound like a good idea to you?

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:58 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Okay, so let's trade Bieksa and give Alberts his ice-time. Sound like a good idea to you?
Bieksa only gets dealt if/or Salo returns.

Alberts icetime doesn't change.

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12-14-2010, 01:59 PM
  #318
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No one defending Bieksa has addressed this: +52 when Bieksa's off the ice, -25 when he's on over the last four seasons. Three of those seasons he was on the second or third pairing. I'd be willing to bet on a per game basis that's the worst in the NHL (don't have time to run the numbers right now). He gets some of the worst EV results in the league and doesn't stand out on either the PK or the PP.

Don't even try to compare him to Ohlund. Ohlund was elite on the PK and nowhere near the trainwreck Bieksa is at EV.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:59 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Are you saying that Bieksa would be on par with the defensemen in your beer league??? Really?
No, Bieksa would be an All-Star in my beer old beer league, unlike any professional league. However, it doesn't change the fact that he defended that play poorly and any player of reasonable skill could have made the play Stamkos did if it was defended that poorly. I guarantee you if Stamkos went into the boards with Edler, or even Alberts there would have been a different outcome. Edler would have contained him before he had an opportunity to make a play and Alberts would have at least got the body on him. Bieksa did neither.

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Old
12-14-2010, 01:59 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Okay, so let's trade Bieksa and give Alberts his ice-time. Sound like a good idea to you?
So blocked shots are all you care about now? You must have loved Johnson.

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Old
12-14-2010, 02:00 PM
  #321
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Kurtenblog did a somewhat humorous frame-by-frame breakdown of the Bieksa/Stamkos play in question:

http://communities.canada.com/thepro...ty-shifty.aspx

Despite the headline "In Kevin Bieksa's Defence, Steve Stamkos is Pretty Shifty"; it is not overly complimentary of Bieksa's play there.

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Old
12-14-2010, 02:01 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Kurtenblog did a somewhat humorous frame-by-frame breakdown of the Bieksa/Stamkos play in question:

http://communities.canada.com/thepro...ty-shifty.aspx

Despite the headline "In Kevin Bieksa's Defence, Steve Stamkos is Pretty Shifty"; it is not overly complimentary of Bieksa's play there.
That's what started this whole discussion...

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Old
12-14-2010, 02:03 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Are you saying that Bieksa would be on par with the defensemen in your beer league??? Really?
Learn to ignore them. If you're a long time Canuck fan you will always know fans at any given time in any given year, no matter how good the team, will always have one whipping boy.

Not that Bieksa hasn't deserved some of it... but some of his defensive gaffs overshadow every other player's mistake (for example Ehrhoff has had some mind-scratching games-- lolwut? Bieksa is da SUX). Once Bieksa leaves, the other mistakes become more evident, and there will be a new whipping boy.

Bieksa is not a bad defensemen. But I do think Canucks would be fine without him. He's contributing IMO when he's putting points on the board... but he's not.

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Old
12-14-2010, 02:03 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
That's what started this whole discussion...
Ah, carry on then.

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Old
12-14-2010, 02:03 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Okay, so let's trade Bieksa and give Alberts his ice-time. Sound like a good idea to you?
No, how about we trade Bieksa and give his time to Ballard and spread around the rest? It wouldn't bother me to see Alberts out there more if it meant Bieksa was gone.

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