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Phillies 2010 Postseason: Red October IV, R2C2: Return of the Jedi

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Old
12-16-2010, 01:15 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Anyone catch the little blurb in the Inquirer about Lee and Werth having a conversation after he signed? Pretty funny.
Lee probably thanked him for leaving so that the Phillies had money leftover to sign Lee.

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12-16-2010, 01:21 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Pitchers went after howard alot this year, even in the playoffs in big situations. And usually 3 quick strikes and he's out. Breaking ball away, he flails, 2 fastballs in on the hands, he's out.
He largely wasn't the same after he came back from his injury. Earlier in the season, he had shown better pitch recognition from both LH and RH. After his injury, he reverted back to April-mode Howard.

Can we stop with the "can't teach an Old Howard new tricks" though? Every season he's set out to improve a facet of his game and has. I wouldn't be surprised with some modest improvement in recognition after he was stung with staring at strike 3 to end our season. No miracles of course, but he's not a guy who sits around and says "I'm good enough."

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12-16-2010, 03:03 PM
  #978
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See what the Giants went and done? See how it works? They reinvented the wheel, and now someone went and re-re-invented it.

The Philadelphia Phillies just signed Cliff Lee at the crypto-home-town-discount price of $120 million (well, OK, Philly was his hometown for a little while), for one reason and one reason only.

To close the Madison Bumgarner Gap.

The Phillies got beat in the National League Championship Series by The Battling You-Know-Whos because their hitters got outpitched by a team that didn't really hit all that much. So what does Ruben Amaro go out and do with Dave Montgomery's money?

Fix the problem.

The key here being "Dave Montgomery's money." The Phillies are big spenders on baseball's time/space/money continuum. They don't seem like it because they aren't the Red Sox or Yankees, but since 2004 they've been among the heaviest hitters, and particularly since tying up Ryan Howard.

Now, with Lee's five-year, $120 million deal, their payroll will nudge, if not actually exceed, $170 million. They have nearly doubled their payroll in four years.

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12-16-2010, 03:04 PM
  #979
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double post

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12-16-2010, 03:45 PM
  #980
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My friend sent me that the other day. It's ********, and just an attempt to flatter themselves. There's more to the Phillies signing Cliff Lee than reacting to the Giants having Madison Bumgarner as their #4.

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12-16-2010, 04:21 PM
  #981
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Yup, Dave Montgomery's money. Doesn't he own the least % of the team out of all the owners? It was John Middleton's money that made this happen. But that's just a minor flaw in that article. The Giants won that series because the Phillies couldn't hit with runners in scoring position. That was not caused fully by the Giants pitchers. I would not be surprised in the least if the Giants don't make the playoffs next year.

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12-16-2010, 04:42 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Yup, Dave Montgomery's money. Doesn't he own the least % of the team out of all the owners? It was John Middleton's money that made this happen. But that's just a minor flaw in that article. The Giants won that series because the Phillies couldn't hit with runners in scoring position. That was not caused fully by the Giants pitchers. I would not be surprised in the least if the Giants don't make the playoffs next year.
Plus, Madison Bumgardner is one of two things. My favorite option is that he's a promising player but hasn't pitched a full year to prove anything and could struggle once guys have seen him. The other option is that he's better than Jonathan Sanchez and therefore their #3. And I don't think Sanchez vs. anybody is ever a huge mismatch because he's so wildly inconsistent.

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12-16-2010, 05:43 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Yup, Dave Montgomery's money. Doesn't he own the least % of the team out of all the owners? It was John Middleton's money that made this happen. But that's just a minor flaw in that article. The Giants won that series because the Phillies couldn't hit with runners in scoring position. That was not caused fully by the Giants pitchers. I would not be surprised in the least if the Giants don't make the playoffs next year.
I would be. NL west is pretty weak. Their only competition will most likely be Colorado, who doesn't scare anyone all that much. And they have two legit aces is Cain and Lincecum then with Sanchez and Bumgarner bringing up the rear, its the only pitching staff (at least IMO) that comes close to the Phillies. When you have pitchers like that, you have a great shot at the playoffs, regardless of how you hit. Not saying their team is going to repeat or anything, but with their pitching staff and an average lineup, I'd be a little surprised if they missed the playoffs. But I do agree that signing Lee wasn't just to beat the Giants.

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12-16-2010, 06:47 PM
  #984
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The Giants made the playoffs on the last day of the year. They got lucky that the Padres "collapsed" and for that matter that the Braves beat the Phillies. (yes I know this happened to the Phillies) It seems that every year theirs a different team from the NL West that asserts itself and then the next year another team does. Pat Burrell carried the damn team during the stretch run. I just wouldn't be surprised if they did not make the playoffs.

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12-16-2010, 06:53 PM
  #985
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The Giants weathered the perfect storm last year. All due respect, it's not a smart bet to consider them contenders anymore than anyone else right now. (And, yeah, I'm aware this happened with us in '08, but we're built much differently.)

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12-16-2010, 07:40 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
The Giants made the playoffs on the last day of the year. They got lucky that the Padres "collapsed" and for that matter that the Braves beat the Phillies. (yes I know this happened to the Phillies) It seems that every year theirs a different team from the NL West that asserts itself and then the next year another team does. Pat Burrell carried the damn team during the stretch run. I just wouldn't be surprised if they did not make the playoffs.
They should be the NL West favorites by far, but you're right, their offense doesn't scare me on a consistent basis, and right now they haven't improved a team that came so close to accomplishing nothing. They're built to do well in the playoffs, but it's hard to say they're even a lock to win more than 90 games.

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12-16-2010, 07:42 PM
  #987
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I wouldnt call the Giants a fluke team , if anything it was a freak occurrence that they won. They got huge contributions out of Burrell, Ross, and Uribe. Their starting pitching is great, but who knows about their bullpen because that tends to fluctuate from year to year.

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12-16-2010, 07:45 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by letitrain View Post
I wouldnt call the Giants a fluke team , if anything it was a freak occurrence that they won. They got huge contributions out of Burrell, Ross, and Uribe. Their starting pitching is great, but who knows about their bullpen because that tends to fluctuate from year to year.
That everyone thought it was awesome Brian Wilson has a tendency to stay away from hitters could become a huge problem. Closers who can't attack on a given pitch aren't so constantly iron clad.

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12-16-2010, 07:48 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
The Giants made the playoffs on the last day of the year. They got lucky that the Padres "collapsed" and for that matter that the Braves beat the Phillies. (yes I know this happened to the Phillies) It seems that every year theirs a different team from the NL West that asserts itself and then the next year another team does. Pat Burrell carried the damn team during the stretch run. I just wouldn't be surprised if they did not make the playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
The Giants weathered the perfect storm last year. All due respect, it's not a smart bet to consider them contenders anymore than anyone else right now. (And, yeah, I'm aware this happened with us in '08, but we're built much differently.)
I agree that things worked out perfectly for them and got into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. But now they'll have Posey for a full season and Sandoval will likely have a rebound. And that pitching staff is one of the best in the league, hands down. Even if Bumgarner is just a flash in the pan, Cain and Lincecum are legit aces and Sanchez is as good as any #2 or #3 in the league (besides in Philly, of course). The west is a weak division. The Dbacks aren't doing anything and the Padres are going to have trouble filling the gap left by Garland and Gonzalez. Colorado will be their only competition and like I said before, they aren't all that intimidating outside of a few players.

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12-16-2010, 07:53 PM
  #990
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I forgot about Renteria too.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:18 PM
  #991
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Old
12-16-2010, 09:49 PM
  #992
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When Lee made the American League All-Star team, Kristen accompanied him to Anaheim, Calif., and she got all choked up when she kept bumping into people she had met in Philadelphia.

"It was very, very emotional," Kristen said. "The whole thing was kind of a roller coaster. I saw one of the [Phillies] owners and I just started crying. The whole entire time, we couldn't believe it got pulled out from under us."
Pretty good article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotsto...rry&id=5923794

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12-16-2010, 10:31 PM
  #993
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it is refreshing to see a professional player genuinely love the city and fans enough to turn down money. it isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things but the fact he did it, especially to the yankees, matters. he was a fan favorite before and he is certainly a fan favorite again because of this.

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12-16-2010, 10:41 PM
  #994
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That was pretty funny. I keep forgetting I'm on the Nationals.

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12-16-2010, 10:46 PM
  #995
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That is, enjoyed it. Always annoyed though that they can't write a single article about Philadelphia without mentioning Santa Claus. It's indirect as possible, but still unnecessary.

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12-16-2010, 11:20 PM
  #996
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I still dont know which one of the four is my favorite one to watch. They are all awesome.

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Old
12-16-2010, 11:32 PM
  #997
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Since we're so close to 1000 continue here....

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=854193

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