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Time to Honour Bure?

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:26 AM
  #176
Wetcoaster
 
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Originally Posted by The Big Foot View Post
Not sure what exactly you were trying to argue in this thread Wetcoaster but you've convinced me that no way should Bure have his jersey retired by this organization - doesn't add up for either for Bure or the Canucks.
I would imagine that was your opinion long before you read anything that I posted. Some are of that opinion and no matter what they will never change their mind.

OTOH I have had numerous people tell me they they had never heard much of the detail and now that they had, they understood why Bure would be ticked off with the Canucks management.

YMMV.

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12-17-2010, 01:26 AM
  #177
skywarp75
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retirement can be debated, but being honored cant. any real fan of hockey knows that Bure was unique and in a class of his own as a talent. as canuck fans, we were VERY lucky to watch him for his prime years, and we should be thankful, not bitter. and as wetcoaster constantly points out (spends a large portion of his life pointing out), there has probly never been a pro athlete more screwed over by a franchise than Bure was by ours. its also the reason we never had any quality free agent singings (other than the messier debacle), because NHL players knew that the Quinn regime was one of the worst ever anywhere when it came to dealing with players and treating them with respect. either that, or they were flat out racist against russians.

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12-17-2010, 01:39 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
retirement can be debated, but being honored cant. any real fan of hockey knows that Bure was unique and in a class of his own as a talent. as canuck fans, we were VERY lucky to watch him for his prime years, and we should be thankful, not bitter. and as wetcoaster constantly points out (spends a large portion of his life pointing out), there has probly never been a pro athlete more screwed over by a franchise than Bure was by ours. its also the reason we never had any quality free agent singings (other than the messier debacle), because NHL players knew that the Quinn regime was one of the worst ever anywhere when it came to dealing with players and treating them with respect. either that, or they were flat out racist against russians.
The canucks were completly on the Russian bandwagon from the beginning. Also, russians are of the same race as us.

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12-17-2010, 01:51 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I would imagine that was your opinion long before you read anything that I posted. Some are of that opinion and no matter what they will never change their mind.

OTOH I have had numerous people tell me they they had never heard much of the detail and now that they had, they understood why Bure would be ticked off with the Canucks management.

YMMV.
Gillis, who actually is a lawyer and who actually was a player agent suggested that there are 2 sides to the story and seemed of the opinion that Bure didn't fit all the criteria for a jersey retirement.

BTW - If all we've really heard is the Bure/Gallagher version of what happened and Gillis says "there are 2 sides to the story", then by elimination, it seems that Gillis knows where Bure was in the wrong.

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12-17-2010, 02:08 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I would imagine that was your opinion long before you read anything that I posted. Some are of that opinion and no matter what they will never change their mind.

OTOH I have had numerous people tell me they they had never heard much of the detail and now that they had, they understood why Bure would be ticked off with the Canucks management.

YMMV.
Well I've seen you post these same links and timelines every few months for the past few years, no need to act like you're enlightening anyone here. I am just saying that there is a history here that doesn't point towards this particular team honouring this particular player in this particular manner (being jersey retirement). I'm not interested in picking sides, I'm saying that the fact there are two sides says enough. Maybe if Bure had had anything to do with the franchise after he left it would be a different story, but I just don't see him as a part of the "pantheon" here. I was just as big of a fan as anyone when he started out here and I don't think there's any question he was the best player ever for this team, however it just didn't end up working out.

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12-17-2010, 02:41 AM
  #181
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post


Seems like a pretty strong defense of Bure, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Pavel miffed at management; [Final Edition]
Terry Bell, Sports Reporter. The Province. Vancouver, B.C.: Jan 18, 1999. pg. A.39

Pavel Bure felt previous Canucks management didn't stand behind their man and that's why he wanted out of Vancouver.

That's the explanation new team boss Brian Burke offered Sunday.

Media reports had Bure ready to walk out on the Canucks during their 1994 Stanley Cup final and Bure felt the team never came to his defence.

"I met with Pavel and he said that when questions were asked by the media he was not backed up by the club," said Burke.

"It wasn't denied rigorously enough.
...
Asked if Bure was just a whiny, little millionaire, Burke said: "No, you'll write that but don't ask me to say it."
interestingly:

Quote:
Monday, February 15th, 1999
By Don Cherry -- Vancouver Province

Florida is going to get their money back with Pavel Bure in spades. He is bigger than a rock star in Florida. It's a funny thing with Pavel. Remember when I really gave it to him when he kicked the feet out from under Keith Tkachuk, then with the Winnipeg Jets? I said, "He was a little weasel for slew-footing Tkachuk." Couldn't believe it the next game in Vancouver they had thousands of towels with the words "Weasel Power" on them and I really got the boo-birds when I tried to do my opening for Hockey Night in Canada. But a funny thing happened, if you remember -- Pavel hurt his back and in this column I ripped the people for getting all over him and insinuating he was faking it about his back and for all the thrills he has given them. They should be ashamed and get off his back. He doesn't deserve the criticism and give the kid a break. About two months later I was standing in the studio. MacLean was doing the opening out in the Forum and as I was standing looking at the monitor in the empty studio, I felt somebody else's presence. I looked around and here was Pavel standing there in a long black top coat staring at me. I thought, "Oh boy! He's pissed about something. OK, let's get it on." But he stuck out his hand and said, "Thanks for sticking with me, Grapes, when I was having a tough time."

Another time last year when I was walking along the halls at GM Place after the game, coming the other way was Pavel with those four guys he always has around him. As we passed by he broke between his entourage and we shook hands. The people in the hall couldn't believe it. Why did Pavel say hello and seem to like me? One, he knew I was right about Tkachuk and I had stuck with him when he was having a tough time. It's easy to stick with a guy who's flying high, but people always remember when you stick with them when they're struggling. It's funny. When asked why he wanted out of the Vancouver organization, the first thing he mentioned was that the organization never backed him up when people in the media were giving it to him, saying they wonder if his back is really bothering him. So you can see it was a big thing with him. Nothing is worse for an athlete who is a proud guy than to be accused of faking an injury. When I saw he never really got the backing of the organization, I knew he was on his way out. So isn't it ironic that the guy I called a weasel turns into a friend of mine.
http://www.pbfc.org/Oldnews/feb99/feb99.html#feb1599

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12-17-2010, 02:56 AM
  #182
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^ Wouldn't surprise me if Cherry made up the whole thing to show everyone what a big person he is.

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Old
12-17-2010, 03:23 AM
  #183
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Another note:

You guys who use Quinn/Burke MEDIA quotes to defend them should instead examine their actions in determining how you think they really handled the team and the players. And once again, its the reason we couldnt attract any quality free agents for that entire era.

I wish people hated Quinn/Burke for losing Bure, instead of hating Bure.

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12-17-2010, 03:25 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Another note:

You guys who use Quinn/Burke MEDIA quotes to defend them should instead examine their actions in determining how you think they really handled the team and the players. And once again, its the reason we couldnt attract any quality free agents for that entire era.

I wish people hated Quinn/Burke for losing Bure, instead of hating Bure.
Messier?

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Old
12-17-2010, 03:32 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Messier?
in previous post i mentioned 'other than the messier debacle'

But i believe its true. Didnt you guys who closely followed the canucks thru those years wonder why we never seemed to get any decent free agents?

this is the most imporant thing MG has brought to this franchise, is a player friendly management. Seriously, the Quinn/Burke regime of hardline oldschoolers and the 'drive him to the airport' if he doesnt accept the disrespect and abuse DID cost us some talent, both ones that we drafted, and ones we could have signed. One guy named Gretzky falls into that catagory if you believe his agent.

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Old
12-17-2010, 09:52 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Another note:

You guys who use Quinn/Burke MEDIA quotes to defend them should instead examine their actions in determining how you think they really handled the team and the players. And once again, its the reason we couldnt attract any quality free agents for that entire era.
I wish people hated Quinn/Burke for losing Bure, instead of hating Bure.
I guess I just assumed it was more due to our .65 cent dollar, our tax rates being twice that of US teams, the weather and being a losing franchise.

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:34 AM
  #187
Alan Jackson
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Didnt you guys who closely followed the canucks thru those years wonder why we never seemed to get any decent free agents?
No, I don't wonder why the Canucks didn't sign free agents, because I know why the Canucks didn't sign free agents. The Canucks were working under a budget, treating the team like a business, and weren't willing to pay over the odds to sign players.

Burke's favourite phrase at the time was, "We're willing to give players market value, but not a penny more."

Canadian teams were struggling to keep up in the early ninties. Salaries were rising much faster than revenues, and teams like the Canucks had to hold the line on salaries.

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