The Lounge"...Where the parking lot of the Igloo meets the concourse of the Nassau County Coliseum and the bathroom line of the Skyreach..." - Wickedbsfan
Ok...but why should disliking the US Government equate to disliking the American people?
If that is the case, you are putting yourself along the same lines as the occasional ignorant Americans who gave French people and tourists nothing but disrespect during the Iraq war.
I dislike those flagwaving Americans, who believe everything what the Government told them and didn't ask any questions.
What makes me different from those people you mentioned? Well those French were wrongfully dissed, because the Chirac government was right in vetoing the resolution. Those resolution were based on wrong intelligence and many Americans believed this crap that Saddam had ties to Al-Queda and had WMD.
I'm very happy for you, Brown! I've been in the same shoes for about the same time (9 years), I know how excited you must feel right now. My family members have been rejected from coming over every single time- I only got to see my mother once in all those years, and I haven't seen anybody else in my family. Enjoy the reunion!
I am shooting on Dick Cheney's America not the US. Always remember this. Believe or not, but before Bush and Cheney took power I actually loved the US. Those punks totally messed up everything.
tomace, you obviously missed the wink in Brown's post, he's taking advantage of Bush and Cheney's idiocy. In days' past, under the enlightened and beautiful reign of KLIN-TON, his family could not get through because of b.s., more maze of semantics. But today, the one-half-track-mind government sees Poland as our best friend in the world because they supported us in Iraq, so he's reaping the benefits.
You didn't notice that wink at all ? His family is stepping over Cheney's head and taking advantage of their black and white view of the world.
America is Great, Poland is Great, and stepping over politicians is Great.
- No offense Brown, but I'm not in favor of expanding the EU right now, since some original member countries have economic troubles.
- Don't trust Bush words. Being America's "best friends" comes along with great risks. 10,000 Polish soldiers in Iraq cost alot of money & harm the economy plus most of your countrymen and women are against Poles in Iraq. Poland bought expensive F-16 from the US, over cheaper Saab and Mirage jets (with the same qualities.) IMO Poland has risen on Al-Queda's hate list a lot and I believe that the security in Poland ain't as high as in the other EU nations.
I'm happy that your relatives will come to the US and may have a better life.
I am not surprised by your "don't trust Bush" comment. At least you're consistent. While it may not be enough, at the very least he is trying to do something to stimulate a small piece of the Polish economy. Rightly or wrongly, if Poland sees neighboring European countries in difficult times, maybe they see the US as a good alternative to help them with their issues.
I don't know how the criteria are determined for EU membership, but what is/can the EU do to help Poland's high unemployment? Will membership make a difference? Aren't Germany, France and England at dangerously high unemployment levels too? Seems like a European problem, not just Poland. What is the EU plan for a healthier Europe in general? From some of the international news shows I see over here, one of the big problem very few want to admit is a huge influx of foreign immigration to Europe. Turks, Arabs, Moslems, etc are playing havoc with the government funded support and inflating the unemployment figures. Is this true?
I'm only asking these things because I don't know.
I love the fact that people like tomACE feels the need to hijack a thread that really doesn't concern him or his political beliefs. We get it already dude! You don't like the current political situation in the U.S, and have financial ties to key Euro news outlets! Let it go and let this man be happy for his freakin family!
*BTW-I'm Polish so I'm more than happy to hear the good news.
I don't know how the criteria are determined for EU membership, but what is/can the EU do to help Poland's high unemployment? Will membership make a difference? Aren't Germany, France and England at dangerously high unemployment levels too? Seems like a European problem, not just Poland. What is the EU plan for a healthier Europe in general? From some of the international news shows I see over here, one of the big problem very few want to admit is a huge influx of foreign immigration to Europe. Turks, Arabs, Moslems, etc are playing havoc with the government funded support and inflating the unemployment figures. Is this true?
Well the European Union nations could start by not electing so many socialist governments.
Even though it had virtually nothing to do with the spirit of the thread, I knew you wouldn't pass up an opportunity to take a shot at the US. Good work. You one class act.
Anyway...Brown I wish your family all the best and I sincerely hope that they are able to fulfill the American dream
- No offense Brown, but I'm not in favor of expanding the EU right now, since some original member countries have economic troubles.
- Don't trust Bush words. Being America's "best friends" comes along with great risks. 10,000 Polish soldiers in Iraq cost alot of money & harm the economy plus most of your countrymen and women are against Poles in Iraq. Poland bought expensive F-16 from the US, over cheaper Saab and Mirage jets (with the same qualities.) IMO Poland has risen on Al-Queda's hate list a lot and I believe that the security in Poland ain't as high as in the other EU nations.
Germans never wanted Poland to be in the EU even when EU talks started several years ago. Why would they? Germans would be coming to Poland to buy back their cars that Poles stole from them. lol
Another reason why Germans don't want Poland in EU is first several years there will still be unemployment in Poland, not as bad as now but still will be big and many Poles would be going legally to Germany and stealing jobs from Germans.
And to be honest with you, i don't really want Poland in the EU anyways as long as we can help get more jobs to Poland and help with the economy, and even in EU those aren't guarenteed.
About Bush, yes, more people in Poland are anti-war, just like in Germany and in the United States. But most people like Bush. He came to Poland, many people really respect him for talking to our people, giving jobs to Poland and then speeking multiple times on CNN as news conference and saying how much he thanks the Poles.
I don't know many people in Poland who don't like Bush, i trust him. As for the planes we bought, it needed to happen if we wanted to be something strong. When we entered NATO we had 6 air force jets ready for war. Only 6. I bet state of New York has more then 6 ready for war at any moment. Since we've put alot of money into the military and now with the F-16's and other planes that we bought as a discounted rate, we have one of the best air forces in Europe. I bielive only England and Isreal have better but i forget.
We have risen on Al-Quida's "hit list" but even if we wern't USAs best freind we might have been hit. We are freinds with USA since Clinton years but we're closer now. As Polish President said "Freinds always have the back of freinds" unlike the French and the Germans. There was many Poles who died in 9-11 and we know if Al-Quida attacks Poland or if someone else in the future attacks Poland, United States of America will be there with us. That's what freinds are for. I don't think it's fair for USA to go thru a bad time (Iraq war) and we would put our backs to them and then be freinds again when the war is over.
But i donno how the heck we got so out of topic lol.
Brown37 I'm cooler now and maybe in the future my stance on the US will finally return to the pre-Bush level and when I think about it. Your story here is very encouraging and I hope that your family is happy now and can work. Just hope that you ain't pi$$ed at me. Sorry buddy!
One more thing. Thanks to my stay in the US I was able to change into a complete different person, than before (in a very positive way.) I was able to get out of daily life over here. Right now my emotions are split between the European side and the American side and since I live in Europe I have little trouble with the other side at the moment. FYI that would reverse, if I would live in the States of course.
Brown37 I'm cooler now and maybe in the future my stance on the US will finally return to the pre-Bush level and when I think about it. Your story here is very encouraging and I hope that your family is happy now and can work. Just hope that you ain't pi$$ed at me. Sorry buddy!
One more thing. Thanks to my stay in the US I was able to change into a complete different person, than before (in a very positive way.) I was able to get out of daily life over here. Right now my emotions are split between the European side and the American side and since I live in Europe I have little trouble with the other side at the moment. FYI that would reverse, if I would live in the States of course.
lol no worries man. It's your opinion and i respect that. This message board would be boring if everyone had the same opinion.
Well the European Union nations could start by not electing so many socialist governments.
If only
The problem is that we here have a party from the economic right in our governement, but we also have the **** socialists in here, wich makes it a no win situation.
I don't know how the criteria are determined for EU membership, but what is/can the EU do to help Poland's high unemployment? Will membership make a difference? Aren't Germany, France and England at dangerously high unemployment levels too? Seems like a European problem, not just Poland. What is the EU plan for a healthier Europe in general? From some of the international news shows I see over here, one of the big problem very few want to admit is a huge influx of foreign immigration to Europe. Turks, Arabs, Moslems, etc are playing havoc with the government funded support and inflating the unemployment figures. Is this true?
I'm only asking these things because I don't know.
Hehe, I'm afraid this is going to be a rather long post, so skip it if you don't like long posts.
Anyway, joining the EU is not easy. There are different standards wich have to be met in order to be accepted.
Firstly there's the economic standard: all nations within the EU are not allowed to have more than 3% of their GNP shortage on their budgets. That's not an easy task for many countries. And actually, with the current economical crisis, a couple of major EU members (Germany and France that I know of for sure) have requested to be allowed to run a bigger deficit.
But the economic process is actually still the easy part. The legal part is much harder. A country will have to adapt it's existing laws to the European standards. That means following the European laws, regulations etc., but also making sure that the National legislation is in accordance with the Law produced by the different European Courts. And European Law has an impact in many, many different fields, so that's no easy task.
For example: Europe has enact law on fields such as Agriculture, Environmental issues, Free trade (obviously, it's first and foremost an economical union), and tons of other areas.
So this means a country in the EU has to give away big chunks of it's sovereignity to Brussles.
A further necessity is the acceptance of the different Human rights treaties. This means first and foremost the European Trety on Human rights (and the judgements passed by the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg). This usually requires enormous adaptations, especially of the rules in legal proceedings (fair trial, unbiased judges) and different legalstandards (minimum rights for people in custody etc.).
There are also minimal standards for social protection of the people and other similar stuff.
Those are the three major areas I can think of at the moment.
Once a country has applied for membership, it starts negotiations with the Union, on how, when, how much, .... the adaptation of it's internal legal system should happen.
There would also be negotiating going on about the amount of seats the country will get in the European Parliament, the European Comission and other institutions.
And than the tricky part is yet to come, how much money wil the country have to give to Europe, and more impoartantly, how much of the pot will return to the country in question.
For instance, it is pretty clear that countries who will join in may 2004 will get huge financial rewards for joining the Union.
As for your question on unemployment, yes, it is a pretty big problem in the entire EU. The reason is pretty simple actually: due the globalisation of the market, the competition between the companies is no longer local, but mondial. As a result, European Industries have to compete against the industries of third world countries and asia etc.
But due to the fact that the system of the social state is universal in Europe, the price of labour here is the highest in the world. So basically the multinational companies find it to expensive (high wages, high taxes) to produce good here in Europe and instead opt for moving to cheaper countries. (well that's a basic and simple explenation, but that's about what's going on here)/
I don't think Poland fits that picture just yet. The wages and cost of labour are stil lvery low (compared to the resto of the EU) over there (this also goes for countries like the Czech republic, SLovakia and co.).
Joining the EU is probably a win-win situation for all the new comers as I don't see any huge negatives on their side of the equasion.
Seems like, from the EU side of things, part of the equation is what will this new member do to help make me wealthier? I mean, if Poland has a weak GDP and high unemployment, the EU must consider if there will be enough return on investment in getting them there. They might cough up the "membership fee", but will they be a constant drain on the EU or a contributing member?
I would think a limited EU with outreach to developing countries would be better. Help develop potential members by bringing some light/heavy industry there. Once the infrastructure is up and running, and their truning a profit, they can be seriously considered for membership. This way, everybody wins. EU gets an stronger economy into the mix, the country, improving all throughout the process, gets membership.
Sorry to make it sound like a business class, but don't many of these things boil down to economics in the long run?
Seems like, from the EU side of things, part of the equation is what will this new member do to help make me wealthier? I mean, if Poland has a weak GDP and high unemployment, the EU must consider if there will be enough return on investment in getting them there. They might cough up the "membership fee", but will they be a constant drain on the EU or a contributing member?
In the first stage the new members will indeed be someting of a 'drain'. But the idea is that with the expansion of the market of free trade, free movement of goods, labour, personnel and money it will improve the economic strenght of all EU members in the long run.
Once the other countries 'catch up', it will mean the European bussinesses will have a larger target area where they can export their goods without taxation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
I would think a limited EU with outreach to developing countries would be better. Help develop potential members by bringing some light/heavy industry there. Once the infrastructure is up and running, and their truning a profit, they can be seriously considered for membership. This way, everybody wins. EU gets an stronger economy into the mix, the country, improving all throughout the process, gets membership.
Well that might indeed be a good idea, but it would be very hard to execute. Who is going to be willing to spend money on a country where it has no control whatsoever? Because if the operation fails, all the money pumped into the potential country will be lost.
That's why the system is so that the countries have to integrate completely, so the other members have at least a marginal influence (and a better sense of security) about what's happening with their money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Sorry to make it sound like a business class, but don't many of these things boil down to economics in the long run?
Of course, politics and power is what it all comes down to.
I think Western Europe would be wise to take advantage of the competitive advantages that the east can offer so that they can compete globally.
I think Western Europe needs to approach the east with a certain caution and education. Corruption is downright absurd in the east, whereas in the west it's always at the top and hush hush, it's a form of government in the east. The Russian mafia is practically the real power behind Russia today. Slava Fetisov could become president if he felt like it. And the eastern european nations as well aren't free of mafioso. The education values in Russia and Ukraine are not what they are in the west either. Russians will tell you if you gave the people land and power they wouldn't know what to do with it.
The west should wait for Russia to finally find her national identity before we come barging in with the dollars, pounds, deutschmarks, francs and lira.
Well that might indeed be a good idea, but it would be very hard to execute. Who is going to be willing to spend money on a country where it has no control whatsoever? Because if the operation fails, all the money pumped into the potential country will be lost.
That's why the system is so that the countries have to integrate completely, so the other members have at least a marginal influence (and a better sense of security) about what's happening with their money.
I was looking at it from the perspective of if they (EU members) are channeling industry to Asia or other inexpensive places, why not spend the same (or slightly more) and ship that same work to Poland, or Romania, etc?
Wouldn't bolstering the economies of your geographic neighbors be a bigger benefit than India or China?
I think Western Europe needs to approach the east with a certain caution and education. Corruption is downright absurd in the east, whereas in the west it's always at the top and hush hush, it's a form of government in the east. The Russian mafia is practically the real power behind Russia today. Slava Fetisov could become president if he felt like it. And the eastern european nations as well aren't free of mafioso. The education values in Russia and Ukraine are not what they are in the west either. Russians will tell you if you gave the people land and power they wouldn't know what to do with it.
The E.U. is taking a cautious approach. There is no question that incorporating new countries into the fold should be done in phases.
I think Hungary, Slovenia, the Czech Republic are ready for inclusion.
I do not agree with the mindset though that there should be no expansion whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey_k
The west should wait for Russia to finally find her national identity before we come barging in with the dollars, pounds, deutschmarks, francs and lira.
I think Western Europe needs to approach the east with a certain caution and education. Corruption is downright absurd in the east, whereas in the west it's always at the top and hush hush, it's a form of government in the east.
Corruption is a problem there, but also some of the current EU countries have similar problems. Here's a link to Transparency International
Corruption Perceptions Index 2003:
8 of the 10 new members, that will join the EU in 2004, used to be communist. The worst countries corrpution wise in the EU have the ranks of 35 (Italy) and 50 (Greece). Two of the eight countries do better than either Italy or Greece (Slovenia 29th and Estonia 33rd), two are between Italy and Greece (Hungary 40th and Lithuania 41st) and the rest are more corrupted than either of them. (Czech Republic 54th, Latvia 57th, Slovakia 59th and Poland 64th) Russia has the the rank of 86 and the US is 18th.
So it could be said, that half of the new Eastern European EU countries are still doing better (= less corruption) than the worst current EU country.
