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Old
12-17-2010, 10:05 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Josh McDaniels may not be the best example.
Yeah, he's an ass hole but he's a smart MOFO and succeeded to making it at the highest level coaching without suiting up. It's the perfect example.

BTW, don't make me sweep the leg.

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:10 PM
  #27
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You can do whatever the hell you want but it stems from a lack of respect and ignorance
How is it ignorant or disrespectful to say that a player made the wrong play or had an off night when they in fact did? I don't see where you're going with this.

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12-17-2010, 10:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
How is it ignorant or disrespectful to say that a player made the wrong play or had an off night when they in fact did? I don't see where you're going with this.
edited my post

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by kingdoughty View Post
YoYou can say someone played a bad game, but talking **** on a player is something else entirely
I can get on board with that.

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:16 PM
  #30
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Look at it this way:

Does Stephen Hawking not grasp the concept of walking and understand when someone is "doing it wrong"?

Drewiske "did it wrong" last night when he chased the forward behind the net when said forward was already entangled with Smyth. It was a glaring mistake. You don't have to be Scotty Bowman to know it was a horrible decision.

That being said, the negative talk about Drewiske is fueled by his lack of physical presence over the past month. He started strong this year but is fading...it feels like a repeat of his last season and that is not a good thing.

I'm not terribly thrilled about this team's defense if both Greene and Mitchell will be out for a significant amount of time. Hell, forget a significant amount of time, I'm not thrilled about it for any amount of time.

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I can get on board with that.
yay

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:29 PM
  #32
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What does any of this have to do with Mitchell's injury?

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12-18-2010, 12:43 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdoughty View Post
You can do whatever the hell you want but it stems from a lack of respect and ignorance

You can say someone played a bad game, but talking **** on a player is something else entirely
Obviously these guys are the best in the world, but again like no name says it does not take the ability to make a play to judge whether it was the right one. You can understand and intrepret the game even if you cannot play it. In fact I know alot of players, very high level players (WHL, etc) that are very very poor at analyzing the game, despite the fact they play the game at a high level(and its no coincendence they lack hockey sense despite talent). Also know people who can hardly skate who break the game down very well.

Whenever I am "talking **** about a player" it is usually* just because I leave the "for the NHL level" thing unsaid since it obvious. For example if I am to say "Smyth is useless" or "Drewiske is too soft and easy to beat 1v1" I am obviously leaving the "for the NHL level" out. Clearly these are not terrible hockey players with regards to the general public.

*=usually since I swear I am better hockey player than say Colton Orr/Derek Boogaard, etc. I just never had the desire to be a fighter, those guys are a crazy.

Oh, and Perry. He's just a punk *****, I would love to fight him(in a hockey game obviously). I'd probably lose but I'd do alright. Now if I can only convince him to come to a beer league game in Winnipeg, Manitoba...

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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What does any of this have to do with Mitchell's injury?
I think it got a little ot.

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Old
12-18-2010, 12:52 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
Thank you. Josh McDaniels never suited up for football in his life but he was a top assistant coach and it earned him a 3.5 million dollar head coaching contract with the Brocos. I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Actually, Josh McDaniels played football in high school and then went to John Carroll University to play Wide Receiver, played alongside London Fletcher.

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Old
12-18-2010, 01:08 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Actually, Josh McDaniels played football in high school and then went to John Carroll University to play Wide Receiver, played alongside London Fletcher.
Dude, I had a good thing going here. LOL.

In all seriousness, McDaniel himself said that he made it without actually playing. I assume he meant the NFL then.

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Old
12-18-2010, 01:16 AM
  #36
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Real talk, Willie Mitchell is SUCH a band-aid, it's ridiculous man, the dude can't stay healthy

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Old
12-18-2010, 02:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by kingdoughty View Post
It's sad that people who have never played hockey talk **** on players like Drewiske
How would you know who has or hasn't played hockey before?

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Old
12-18-2010, 03:25 AM
  #38
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I've been heavily in martial arts since I was 8 years old and wrestled as an underage teenager in HS. I wrestled competatively and have been in and around MMA since I could qualify. My father is a 6th degree black belt in circle JJ and I am profcient in over 40 submissions, and have advanced to at least brown belt in 4 arts over the last 20 years. That doesn't make my opinion on a fight more or less valid than somebody who has watched MMA on TV for ten years. It makes me respect all that they have gone through more than most, but that doesn't equate to my opinion being any more important.
You are confusing the two issues though.

No one is saying someone who has played a sport's opinion is more important, they are however saying they are more informed.

Important = informed.

Take your case, you definitely have a more informed opinion about MMA and fighting than I do, though we both watch the same fight, there are nuances to it that I will miss that you won't.

Same thing can be said about hockey.

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Old
12-18-2010, 03:29 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kingme00 View Post
How would you know who has or hasn't played hockey before?
Not only that, but following that type of logic, I guess nobody should be critical of film, music or art unless they have directed a film, produced an album, or painted a work of art.

You don't need to have played in the NHL to make an observation about a player's abilities. And someone with rudimentary hockey knowledge could tell if a player can play with any physicality.

With that said, this debate on Drewiske's merits as an NHL defenseman relates to Willie Mitchell in the sense that the Kings have the depend on him while Mitchell (and Greene) are nursing their wounds.

Now I'm not expecting the Kings to have spare defensemen on its roster that could be as good as Mitchell or Greene, but is it unfair to expect a player who is 6'2" and 218 lbs to use his body a little more? At the very least, if you aren't going to initiate contact, at least use your stick, be at the right place, close the gaps.

I've grown a bit frustrated waiting for Drewiske to display the little bit of promise some of us thought he had when he cracked the Kings roster a few seasons back. He has regressed since then, but then again, that was a terrible Kings team at the time...

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Old
12-18-2010, 05:08 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Not only that, but following that type of logic, I guess nobody should be critical of film, music or art unless they have directed a film, produced an album, or painted a work of art.

You don't need to have played in the NHL to make an observation about a player's abilities. And someone with rudimentary hockey knowledge could tell if a player can play with any physicality.

With that said, this debate on Drewiske's merits as an NHL defenseman relates to Willie Mitchell in the sense that the Kings have the depend on him while Mitchell (and Greene) are nursing their wounds.

Now I'm not expecting the Kings to have spare defensemen on its roster that could be as good as Mitchell or Greene, but is it unfair to expect a player who is 6'2" and 218 lbs to use his body a little more? At the very least, if you aren't going to initiate contact, at least use your stick, be at the right place, close the gaps.

I've grown a bit frustrated waiting for Drewiske to display the little bit of promise some of us thought he had when he cracked the Kings roster a few seasons back. He has regressed since then, but then again, that was a terrible Kings team at the time...
This goes back to what kingdoughty was inferring though, without playing the game at a high level, how can you infer that Drewiske isn't playing the right gap, or in the right place, or if it's possible to use his body more etc, maybe the situation that you think he can, he can't because of nuances that are there that you will miss if you haven't been involved in the game at a high level? Not saying that this is the case or that Drewiske can't indeed do all the things you want him to do better.

It's one thing to watch a game on TV and say, hey, he should be a foot more over to the right, or, he should have played the body in that case, or, he should be closer to the defender, and it's another to actually be in that situation at that time and trying to concentrate on what needs to be done.

Can he be better, maybe, don't know, maybe this is where he taps out, if that's the case, can the Kings get better, probably, but at what cost, and where, and who?

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Old
12-18-2010, 06:10 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
This goes back to what kingdoughty was inferring though, without playing the game at a high level, how can you infer that Drewiske isn't playing the right gap, or in the right place, or if it's possible to use his body more etc, maybe the situation that you think he can, he can't because of nuances that are there that you will miss if you haven't been involved in the game at a high level? Not saying that this is the case or that Drewiske can't indeed do all the things you want him to do better.
Ken Hitchcock disagrees with this. He never played the game past childhood and I wouldn't count that as a 'high level' of hockey yet he's been telling players how to play the game for quite some time now... or was til he got fired

Quote:
It's one thing to watch a game on TV and say, hey, he should be a foot more over to the right, or, he should have played the body in that case, or, he should be closer to the defender, and it's another to actually be in that situation at that time and trying to concentrate on what needs to be done.

Can he be better, maybe, don't know, maybe this is where he taps out, if that's the case, can the Kings get better, probably, but at what cost, and where, and who?
Of course that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that someone who is a fan of the game has the ability to see the faults of a player. Can they do it better... of course not, but being able to recognize those mistakes and/or deficencies has no bearing on whether or not he's played the game at a 'high level'.

I've never played at a 'high level', but no one will disagree with me when I say Ryan Smyth is slow.

Ziggy called Drewiske soft. Terry Murray agrees to an extent. He said one of the things Davis needed to improve on is his physical play. He's a big body and needs to use it more in order to be effective.

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Old
12-18-2010, 06:46 AM
  #42
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Am I the only one that thinks this screams groin?

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Old
12-18-2010, 08:50 AM
  #43
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Am I the only one that thinks this screams groin?
Definitely not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammond's Blog, Mitchell Injury Update
GROOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:06 AM
  #44
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See, I'm of the total opposite opinion. I don't second guess what a doctor tells me or the guy that fixes my garage door for that matter. I didn't go to school and learn how to do that job, so who the hell am I to say he's doing it wrong? Same goes for hockey players and fans who bash them. All you're really doing is stating your opinion, but really, most people on ANY message board wouldn't have the first clue what to do if they ever stepped foot on an NHL ice surface. It's easy to sit back from a birds eye view and see whats going on in the entire ice surface and point out what should have been done after a bad play, but when you're actually on the ice, playing in a high pace game, it's a lot different.
I know you played at a higher a level then me, but I've been around hockey for a LONG time, and I do think I have an idea of what players should and shouldn't be doing on th ice. Of course, its just our opinion, just as what TM thinks of his players is his opinion. He gets paid to do it, I don't, but that does not mean that I have no idea how things should be done or how to structure a power-play or set-up a cycle and get the puck into the prime shot areas using that cycle.

To say that only those people who have played NHL hockey have that understanding is simply not correct. You may choose to place your faith in only pro's and ex pro's, but many others understand the game at a deep level too.

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