HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Ville Leino's Contract Talks Stalled

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2010, 10:33 AM
  #76
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
In reverse, trading Sharp for nothing to Chicago wasn't a bad trade either? The reasoning is the very close to what you give for the Leino trade.
Well, Sharp asked to leave.

Leino... was going to be waived (which everyone knew) and someone was going to claim him on waivers. So, Detroit got something for nothing essentially.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:34 AM
  #77
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
In reverse, trading Sharp for nothing to Chicago wasn't a bad trade either? The reasoning is the very close to what you give for the Leino trade.
Sharp helped win Chicago a Stanley Cup, and we're certainly no worse after making that trade. Hell, we're the ones they beat.

Likewise, Leino is great here and all, but do you think Detroit is missing him much while leading the west?

It's all relative, and I think sometimes we look to deeply into a winner and a loser for trades.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:35 AM
  #78
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
In reverse, trading Sharp for nothing to Chicago wasn't a bad trade either? The reasoning is the very close to what you give for the Leino trade.
Like Hover said, it wasn't really all that bad of a trade. Jester said this exact same thing in another topic, but you can't label a trade good or bad without considering the context. The context is what makes that trade much easier to swallow. The return was pretty bad, but the reasoning makes it much better.

Homer has a laundry list of other bad moves he's made in place of the Sharp trade anyways.

Garbage Goal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:37 AM
  #79
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sharp helped win Chicago a Stanley Cup, and we're certainly no worse after making that trade. Hell, we're the ones they beat.

Likewise, Leino is great here and all, but do you think Detroit is missing him much while leading the west?

It's all relative, and I think sometimes we look to deeply into a winner and a loser for trades.
I think the ******** draft lottery had more to do with that.

Garbage Goal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:38 AM
  #80
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Sharp was Clarke anyway wasn't it?

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:39 AM
  #81
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Sharp was Clarke anyway wasn't it?
Yep.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:40 AM
  #82
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I think the ******** draft lottery had more to do with that.
Well, yeah, but I'm not implying that it matters. My point is that after the Sharp trade both teams were successful. It's certainly not because of the Sharp trade that Chicago is struggling now.

Also, the two teams leading their respective conferences last year made a trade where one (Philadelphia) "stole" the other team's (Detroit) underachieving, highly talented rookie forward (Leino) for almost nothing.

They're both successful. The trade certainly has not hurt Detroit any. Could they be a better team with Leino in their lineup? Maybe, but how much causality to be want to drum up for the sake of this argument? It's not worth the headaches.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:49 AM
  #83
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, yeah, but I'm not implying that it matters. My point is that after the Sharp trade both teams were successful. It's certainly not because of the Sharp trade that Chicago is struggling now.

Also, the two teams leading their respective conferences last year made a trade where one (Philadelphia) "stole" the other team's (Detroit) underachieving, highly talented rookie forward (Leino) for almost nothing.

They're both successful. The trade certainly has not hurt Detroit any. Could they be a better team with Leino in their lineup? Maybe, but how much causality to be want to drum up for the sake of this argument? It's not worth the headaches.
Based on the cap situation.... there is no way Leino is a Red Wing today. He wasn't playing well there, and they had to waive someone at the time. He was the guy.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 10:50 AM
  #84
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Based on the cap situation.... there is no way Leino is a Red Wing today. He wasn't playing well there, and they had to waive someone at the time. He was the guy.
Exactly.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:03 AM
  #85
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
double post


Last edited by MountainHawk: 12-18-2010 at 11:12 AM.
MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:11 AM
  #86
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Waiving a player on a multi-year contract (Leighton, Shelley, Walker, Laperierre) does nothing, every roster move is canceled after the end of the season and every one-way contract counts towards the upper limit. The only way to get caproom for next season is to either move one of those contracts or buy one of them out during the week between Draft and Free Agency (last week of June).



Or in other words: You can't spend more for next season than the upper limit for this season. It's exactly the same.

caphit of multi-year contracts + caphit of expiring contracts + current caproom = upper limit.
It is NOT exactly the same. If you have people on LTIR right now, you could be 'over the cap' for next season, but still be allowed to sign extensions up to the amount of expiring contracts for next season.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:19 AM
  #87
Rick Deckard
Registered User
 
Rick Deckard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It is NOT exactly the same. If you have people on LTIR right now, you could be 'over the cap' for next season, but still be allowed to sign extensions up to the amount of expiring contracts for next season.
I don't get that ... how does a player on LTIR influence the upper limit for next season, everyone who is on LTIR for this season has to be put there next season again.

Rick Deckard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:33 AM
  #88
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Take an extreme case. Assume a $60M cap for ease of calculation.

Let's say we had $75M of cap hits under contract, but we are getting $15M of LTIR exemptions, so we are currently at the cap.

$10M of those contracts expire this year, so we are committed to $65M for next year ... over the cap. However, the tagging rule would still allow the Flyers to offer extensions worth $10M during the year ... the expiring contracts values.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:51 AM
  #89
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Maybe.



You missed something. A new, far more lucrative TV deal, whether it is with ESPN/ABC or Comcast/VS/NBC, is going to mean more money for ALL teams, not just rich teams.

Granted the parity in monies generated between the rich teams and the poor teams may get larger, but more MONEY is ALWAYS a GOOD thing for EVERYONE.

It shouldn't prevent the cap going up for the time being.
I was referring to the fact that the disparity between teams would get larger. In addition, the increased funds may make some teams profitable but only until they are told by the NHL that they needs to dump another 5M+ into their payroll.

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:54 AM
  #90
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
On the leino trade. Should detroit meet us in the finals, with leino playing in those finals. Is that trade still even?

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 11:55 AM
  #91
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
On the leino trade. Should detroit meet us in the finals, with leino playing in those finals. Is that trade still even?
...Detroit literally COULD NOT keep Leino last year. He wasn't playing in games for them, and they needed to dump someone to remain cap compliant. They didn't want to trade him, but they had to move somebody. Rather than waive him and get nothing, they got a draft pick.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 12:02 PM
  #92
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...Detroit literally COULD NOT keep Leino last year. He wasn't playing in games for them, and they needed to dump someone to remain cap compliant. They didn't want to trade him, but they had to move somebody. Rather than waive him and get nothing, they got a draft pick.
Franzen was coming back off of LTIR if I recall correctly. And Leino and Babcock didnt work very well

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 12:05 PM
  #93
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Franzen was coming back off of LTIR if I recall correctly. And Leino and Babcock didnt work very well
Yeah... and he's a guy everyone thought would produce in the NHL eventually, but he wasn't yet, and they couldn't put him back in the AHL without waiving him. So they were stuck, and they got something for him.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 12:54 PM
  #94
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
They were not stuck. Surely they had someone on the roster that could of gone down in his place to hold onto him.

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 01:30 PM
  #95
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
They were not stuck. Surely they had someone on the roster that could of gone down in his place to hold onto him.
He wasn't producing in the NHL and it would have been bad management to send someone down that made as much as Leino, but was producing more. Leino isn't a bottom six type player, so if they were gonna send someone else down it had to be at least a pseudo-scoring type making as much as Leino.

I don't know why you're still arguing this honestly. If they weren't stuck then it wouldn't have been as clear as day that they were going to waive him and we definitely wouldn't have got him for so little.

Detroit waived Tollefsen immediately IIRC, so it's not as if Detroit didn't know they were getting a crap return.

Garbage Goal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 02:04 PM
  #96
i am dave
Registered User
 
i am dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corner of 1st & 1st
Country: United States
Posts: 2,182
vCash: 500
I'm working under the assumption that the article in the OP is just poorly researched, which would not surprise me.

i am dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 03:08 PM
  #97
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
They were not stuck. Surely they had someone on the roster that could of gone down in his place to hold onto him.
He had 7 pts and was -10 in 42 games. Detroit had turned it on, and were making a push up the standings in the West. Why would they keep a guy that wasn't contributing and ditch someone else that was?

It wasn't working out for Leino in Detroit (for whatever reason), and they were cap strapped and he couldn't be sent down to the AHL.

It was good management to get anything for Leino.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 04:09 PM
  #98
Jumping
Registered User
 
Jumping's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Atlanta Ga
Country: United States
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Leino style does not look as different with the Red Wings as it does with the Flyers. I think half the reason he is so well liked in Philly is because he is so dramatically different than most of our team. Really the only play alike to Leino on the Flyers is Giroux. In Detroit there are several guys who control the pace of the game like Leino and Giroux do. The Flyers players are more like "charge!"

Jumping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 04:11 PM
  #99
DickTony
Registered User
 
DickTony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,025
vCash: 500
Lock Leino up for 3 before he starts making a case for 4...the guy's playing unreal hockey right now.

DickTony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2010, 04:29 PM
  #100
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
Leino style does not look as different with the Red Wings as it does with the Flyers. I think half the reason he is so well liked in Philly is because he is so dramatically different than most of our team. Really the only play alike to Leino on the Flyers is Giroux. In Detroit there are several guys who control the pace of the game like Leino and Giroux do. The Flyers players are more like "charge!"
I think they would have liked him just fine in Detroit if he was posting 14-30-44 +24 in 52 game runs.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.