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So, with the 4th best points total in the league, what should the Rangers do?

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:45 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I just don't think we can pass on Richards if we can get him without destroying the core of this team.
If we sign this guy it will be to a long-term deal. He's about to cash in on his best year and get what will most likely be his final NHL contract.

The presence of this guy on the roster may be potentially positive for a few seasons - maybe two - before he starts his inevitable decline. I would even argue that he returns to regular form after this contract year is over. That means 60-70 points not 90 or 100.

So - he may be ok. But destroying the core means more than trading away our youth. Richards' presence could also stunt guys like Stepan and Anisimov, from whom he'll be taking playing time.

I don't want to see that happen. In my opinion, that's just as bad for our core as sending these guys away in a trade.

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12-18-2010, 12:01 PM
  #102
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I agree. He's entering the downward slope of his career so there's no reason to throw big money at him unless it's a short or medium term deal.

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12-18-2010, 01:14 PM
  #103
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Chris Kreider is going to be on this team next season. And he's not going to be relegated to 3rd and 4th line play for very long. Dubinsky and Kreider are going to be our top 2 LW.

Looking at Tortorella's "track record" suggests that he has no problem at all putting a kid in a big spot if he likes him. And considering he juggles lines often only increases the opportunity.

Kreider is the embodiment of what Tortorella wants in a player: fast, big, strong, straight forward game, hard forecheck, physical, grit or "jam", hard to the net, two way play, reliable in any situation, 100% effort 100% of the time, strong desire to win, selfless, team first, leadership qualities, strong character, coachable, and the skill to back it all up, especially his hands and his shot.

He's also being bred with knowledge of what it takes to win at high levels. NCAA title, WJC gold, and has the possibility to repeat both this season.

Werek also fits the mold, and is very reliable both ways, and can take faceoffs.

To assume Kreider won't be getting top 6 minute by this time next season like Stepan, is folly.

And Werek's skating is very underrated, too. He's not a burner, but he's not a poor skater at all. He beat Taylor Hall in a skating/puck handing competition displaying how underrated his skating is.

These two are going to be big parts of the Rangers very soon, and will fit perfectly with the young guys who are on the team now.

The need for an elite wing is gone. We have a lot of depth on the wing.

We also have a lot of depth at center.

But if its possible to acquire Richards, and retain all of our core young players, then Sather is going to look into it, that's a given.

Sather has proven he will not sacrifice players he considers a part of the future core for high profile players. See: Heatley, Kessel, Kovalchuk.

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12-18-2010, 02:17 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
If we sign this guy it will be to a long-term deal. He's about to cash in on his best year and get what will most likely be his final NHL contract.

The presence of this guy on the roster may be potentially positive for a few seasons - maybe two - before he starts his inevitable decline. I would even argue that he returns to regular form after this contract year is over. That means 60-70 points not 90 or 100.

So - he may be ok. But destroying the core means more than trading away our youth. Richards' presence could also stunt guys like Stepan and Anisimov, from whom he'll be taking playing time.

I don't want to see that happen. In my opinion, that's just as bad for our core as sending these guys away in a trade.
Players who rely on their head and hands, rather than their strength and speed, like Richards does, don't usually decline as early as players who play a physical/speed game. No reason to think Richards can't maintain an 80-90 point pace through the age of 35.

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12-19-2010, 09:26 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Players who rely on their head and hands, rather than their strength and speed, like Richards does, don't usually decline as early as players who play a physical/speed game. No reason to think Richards can't maintain an 80-90 point pace through the age of 35.
So far he's only completed two seasons above 90 points. Two. This is a contract year. You expect me to believe that he's all of a sudden going to have four straight career best seasons?

His next highest point total was 79. In order, his three best seasons were as follows: 91. 91. 79. He's only scored above a point per game twice in his career. This season may be added to that list, but as I said it is his windfall payday season.

Your logic? Meh. Whatever.

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12-19-2010, 12:24 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
So far he's only completed two seasons above 90 points. Two. This is a contract year. You expect me to believe that he's all of a sudden going to have four straight career best seasons?

His next highest point total was 79. In order, his three best seasons were as follows: 91. 91. 79. He's only scored above a point per game twice in his career. This season may be added to that list, but as I said it is his windfall payday season.

Your logic? Meh. Whatever.
yeah, not sure i buy the "he'll stay at 90 point" argument.

but i do buy the "he'll stay at 70+ points" argument, and ill take that for sure.

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12-19-2010, 01:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
yeah, not sure i buy the "he'll stay at 90 point" argument.

but i do buy the "he'll stay at 70+ points" argument, and ill take that for sure.
I agree, barring injuries that he'll stay around 70 points, at least for a couple of years. That would be nice today, in this lineup. Maybe next season, too.

What about Stepan and Anisimov, though? I'm sure if Stepan keeps getting 1st line time he'll be at that 70 pt. level in a season or two. Anisimov may as well. So then you've got old Brad Richards with a big cap hit, getting worse while our boys are being held back. And he's not going to take a two or three year contract. There's no precedent for a 31 year old at his level taking a short contract. He'll want a 5-6 plus year deal.

Note, if you will, that he also hasn't played a lot over the past few years. Does this indicate some kind of injury prone situation? Do we need another one of those?

Too many problems with this proposal. I say I hope it doesn't happen.

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12-19-2010, 01:33 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
So far he's only completed two seasons above 90 points. Two. This is a contract year. You expect me to believe that he's all of a sudden going to have four straight career best seasons?
It's easy to sound convincing when you leave out important details.

This will be year three with 90 points, assuming he stays healthy. This is a player who scored 62 points in each of his first two seasons in the league, 74 in his third, and 79 in his fourth, which included a Stanley Cup win and a Conn Smythe trophy. Keep in mind, this was all pre-lockout. He had 91 in 05-06, a bad year in 2006-07, and returned to a near-PPG pace in 07-08 despite spending most of the season on a horrible team and getting traded at the deadline. 48 in an injury plagued 56-game (the only season he missed significant time in his career) season in 08-09. 91 points last year, 37 in 32 this year.

And if he comes here, he'll be playing with a better goalscorer than he's ever played with before.

Quote:
His next highest point total was 79. In order, his three best seasons were as follows: 91. 91. 79. He's only scored above a point per game twice in his career. This season may be added to that list, but as I said it is his windfall payday season.
And yet he still scored 91 points last season, and has really only had one "bad" season in his entire career, when he scored just 70 points.

Quote:
Your logic? Meh. Whatever.
It's a logic that's shared by many in the NHL, I'd be willing to bet. He's a top 10 playmaker in the league, which makes him one of the most dangerous and valuable players in the league. Players like him tend to be underrated because they aren't flashy, but when you have players like Richards, you own the puck and your time in the offensive zone becomes much more efficient. There aren't many players in the league that give you that high of a chance to develop a quality scoring chance anytime they are on the ice.

When you consider the rules since the lockout, the added time and space skill players get, and the importance of the PP, there is no reason that Richards can't put up 80 points as a 35 year old. He wouldn't be the first player, even since the lockout, to put up big numbers at that age.

Quote:
Note, if you will, that he also hasn't played a lot over the past few years. Does this indicate some kind of injury prone situation? Do we need another one of those?
By asking this question, one can infer that you don't know much about him or watch him play with any regularity. If this is the case, who are you to judge whether or not Stepan and/or Anisimov will be as good as him, or him as a player in general? It seems you're judging simply by statistics. By the way, through the first six seasons of his career, he missed two games. In 2007-08, he missed 8 games, and he missed 26 in 08-09 with a couple of back-to-back hand injuries. He missed two games with a tweaked groin last season.


Last edited by NYR Sting: 12-19-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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Old
12-19-2010, 03:26 PM
  #109
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In regards to the original question, I think we don't really have to do anything. Small tweak could be getting a LD and if Gaborik could simply remember how to dominate like last season - that would be huge. Healthy roster would be nice for 2011.

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12-19-2010, 03:44 PM
  #110
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Its Richards or nothing. No more adding 2nd tier guys like Jokinen, Frolov, Kotalik etc and praying it works. The rangers need to add a legitimate first line player. If they cant add Richards at the deadline than just continue to stay the course with the young kids and go after him in the summer.

Hopefully Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik will be our top line by the deadline or next year.

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12-19-2010, 10:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by msg View Post
Its Richards or nothing. No more adding 2nd tier guys like Jokinen, Frolov, Kotalik etc and praying it works. The rangers need to add a legitimate first line player. If they cant add Richards at the deadline than just continue to stay the course with the young kids and go after him in the summer.

Hopefully Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik will be our top line by the deadline or next year.
agree

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12-20-2010, 12:51 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
If we sign this guy it will be to a long-term deal. He's about to cash in on his best year and get what will most likely be his final NHL contract.

The presence of this guy on the roster may be potentially positive for a few seasons - maybe two - before he starts his inevitable decline. I would even argue that he returns to regular form after this contract year is over. That means 60-70 points not 90 or 100.

So - he may be ok. But destroying the core means more than trading away our youth. Richards' presence could also stunt guys like Stepan and Anisimov, from whom he'll be taking playing time.

I don't want to see that happen. In my opinion, that's just as bad for our core as sending these guys away in a trade.
No way, that doesn't make any sense. Two rookies would not resent Brad Richards for joining their team. These kids want to win championships and play with guys like that, why on earth would they object to a great player like that joining their roster?

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12-20-2010, 12:55 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Players who rely on their head and hands, rather than their strength and speed, like Richards does, don't usually decline as early as players who play a physical/speed game. No reason to think Richards can't maintain an 80-90 point pace through the age of 35.
Agreed. The guys with wheels, (Sakic, Modano, Messier) can be productive into their mid-30's. Richards is in that class.

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12-20-2010, 01:47 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by msg View Post
Its Richards or nothing. No more adding 2nd tier guys like Jokinen, Frolov, Kotalik etc and praying it works.
agreed 10000%

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12-20-2010, 01:49 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post

Note, if you will, that he also hasn't played a lot over the past few years. Does this indicate some kind of injury prone situation? Do we need another one of those?
I'm still on the fence about Richards but this is 2nd time his injury situation has come up and I just don't understand it.
This year - every game
last year - missed 2
08-09 - 56, injury year
07-08 - 84, was traded
06-07 - 82
05-06 82

One injured season does make him injury prone

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12-20-2010, 02:16 AM
  #116
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fact: our centremen are weak...
fact: richards is on the wrong side of 30

richards is great but he is on the downside of his career... and there are not many years left where he can be counted on as a #1 centremen

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Boyle-Stepan-Zuccarello
Avery-Drury-Callahan
Wiese-Anisimov-Prust

Staal-Girardi
MDZ-Roszival
Sauer-Vtank/McDonough/Eminger

Henry the King

IMO this is a stacked lineup.. our 4th line will generate a lot of scoring chances... our 3rd line consists of 2 potential 20 goal scorers ... our second line is questionable but i think stepan will take a giant step next year and be a bonafide #2 centre... Zuccarello will be the top 6 player he set out to be and boyle will prove he is not a bust ... dubinsky-richards-gaborik could be an unreal 1st line...
Closing statement: richards is getting older but at the end of the day he is a trooper and is a born winner.. he will instantly make this team better... and i say if we can get him for a 3 year deal under 8 million per year... sign me up

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12-20-2010, 02:32 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
fact: our centremen are weak...
fact: richards is on the wrong side of 30

richards is great but he is on the downside of his career... and there are not many years left where he can be counted on as a #1 centremen

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Boyle-Stepan-Zuccarello
Avery-Drury-Callahan
Wiese-Anisimov-Prust

Staal-Girardi
MDZ-Roszival
Sauer-Vtank/McDonough/Eminger

Henry the King

IMO this is a stacked lineup.. our 4th line will generate a lot of scoring chances... our 3rd line consists of 2 potential 20 goal scorers ... our second line is questionable but i think stepan will take a giant step next year and be a bonafide #2 centre... Zuccarello will be the top 6 player he set out to be and boyle will prove he is not a bust ... dubinsky-richards-gaborik could be an unreal 1st line...
Closing statement: richards is getting older but at the end of the day he is a trooper and is a born winner.. he will instantly make this team better... and i say if we can get him for a 3 year deal under 8 million per year... sign me up


Prospal Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Stepan Zuccarello
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Prust/Avery Drury Boyle
Avery/Prust
Christensen
Boogaard


Staal Girardi
DZ Rozy
Eminger Sauer
Gilroy

Lundqvist
Biron


DO IT!

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12-20-2010, 02:50 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
Prospal Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Stepan Zuccarello
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Prust/Avery Drury Boyle
Avery/Prust
Christensen
Boogaard


Staal Girardi
DZ Rozy
Eminger Sauer
Gilroy

Lundqvist
Biron


DO IT!
Why the hell do people keep putting Prospal on the top line?? He's 35 and is just coming off a very serious injury. It wouldn't be surprising if he will barely play at all.

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12-26-2010, 06:30 AM
  #119
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Boyle – Stepan – Gabby
Dubinsky – AA – MZA
Prospal – Drury – Callahan
Feds/Frolov – Avery – Prust

Boogey if he returns (against them goonsquads regular season)

White to the minors

Staal – Girardi
*** New Left D – Rozie
MDZ – Sauer
Eminger

This is what I would like to see when everyone is back.

TRADE
Christ + Gilroy + 2nd or 3rd round pick/midlevel-prospect for veteran UFA-to-be (preferabely lefthanded) D from a non-contender
Potential candidates as I see it are:
  • Ed Jovanovski (need to add...)
  • James Vandermeer
  • Bryan McCabe (defensive liability imo...
  • Jan Hejda
  • Craig Rivet
  • Tomas Kaberle ()
  • Chris Phillips
  • Steve Staios
Add what you might think is necessary outside the roster for each player - naturally done at the deadline...


This is a very well balanced team with scoring potential, grit, speed and some hockeysense spread out on all 4 lines.

Put out the 3rd line against other teams number one line, the 1st and 2nd lines are definitely a threat every shift and the 4th line must be one of the best 4th lines hockeywise in the league. Boyle could open up some space for Stepan to be „the playmaker“ and find Gabby open in the hot zone on the 1st... Worth a try at least. Pretty good depth all around imo...

Just a thought...

Merry Christmas from Bali

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Old
12-26-2010, 08:00 AM
  #120
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sit back and enjoy because i dont want to got thru 1998-Mid 2000's again!

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12-26-2010, 09:00 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
So - he may be ok. But destroying the core means more than trading away our youth. Richards' presence could also stunt guys like Stepan and Anisimov, from whom he'll be taking playing time.
I think this is made out to be a much bigger deal than it would be. There's not really anyone else in the top 9 that will take time from Stepan and Anisimov except maybe Boyle and Drury, and you can't tell me someone won't move to the wing so those guys aren't on the 4th line. Anisimov has made it clear his ceiling is probably an average 2nd line center unless he's a late bloomer. He shows really good skills and hockey smarts, but it just doesn't seem like he'll put it all together to be more than about a ~50 point guy. Not a bad thing. Stepan, the ceiling seems to be the sky, but to say his growth will be stunted because he's getting 2nd line minutes instead of 1st line minutes is absurd.

I think it would actually benefit Stepan to be the 2nd line center behind a guy like Richards.

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12-26-2010, 09:01 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriks7 View Post
Why the hell do people keep putting Prospal on the top line?? He's 35 and is just coming off a very serious injury. It wouldn't be surprising if he will barely play at all.
agreed.

I'll be very surprised if Prospal doesn't spend most of the time he's back on the 3rd and 4th line, getting most of his minutes on the powerplay.

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12-26-2010, 09:03 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
So far he's only completed two seasons above 90 points. Two. This is a contract year. You expect me to believe that he's all of a sudden going to have four straight career best seasons?

His next highest point total was 79. In order, his three best seasons were as follows: 91. 91. 79. He's only scored above a point per game twice in his career. This season may be added to that list, but as I said it is his windfall payday season.

Your logic? Meh. Whatever.
If Gaborik is healthy for about 70 games a season I don't think it's that farfetched to believe Richards will maintain a higher point total per season than he usually does. Who in Dallas is even comparable to Gaborik? Eriksson?

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12-26-2010, 09:08 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Chris Kreider is going to be on this team next season. And he's not going to be relegated to 3rd and 4th line play for very long. Dubinsky and Kreider are going to be our top 2 LW.

Looking at Tortorella's "track record" suggests that he has no problem at all putting a kid in a big spot if he likes him. And considering he juggles lines often only increases the opportunity.

Kreider is the embodiment of what Tortorella wants in a player: fast, big, strong, straight forward game, hard forecheck, physical, grit or "jam", hard to the net, two way play, reliable in any situation, 100% effort 100% of the time, strong desire to win, selfless, team first, leadership qualities, strong character, coachable, and the skill to back it all up, especially his hands and his shot.

He's also being bred with knowledge of what it takes to win at high levels. NCAA title, WJC gold, and has the possibility to repeat both this season.

Werek also fits the mold, and is very reliable both ways, and can take faceoffs.

To assume Kreider won't be getting top 6 minute by this time next season like Stepan, is folly.

And Werek's skating is very underrated, too. He's not a burner, but he's not a poor skater at all. He beat Taylor Hall in a skating/puck handing competition displaying how underrated his skating is.

These two are going to be big parts of the Rangers very soon, and will fit perfectly with the young guys who are on the team now.

The need for an elite wing is gone. We have a lot of depth on the wing.

We also have a lot of depth at center.

But if its possible to acquire Richards, and retain all of our core young players, then Sather is going to look into it, that's a given.

Sather has proven he will not sacrifice players he considers a part of the future core for high profile players. See: Heatley, Kessel, Kovalchuk.
It's very premature to assume Kreider is going to make the team. It's just as premature as people that had Valentenko and/or McDonagh penciled into their lineups this off-season.

We also do not have a lot of depth at center at all if you look within the organization.
Our major problem being we have a few guys on the big club that are better suited for winger in Dubinsky and Drury. Both are good face-off guys, and I think in Drury's case a lot of people assume he's still playing center just because they see him taking faceoffs, when it's Anisimov that's playing that position regardless of who takes the draw.

So taking those two guys out of the equation, you have: Stepan, Anisimov, Christensen, Boyle, White, and then a bunch of guys in the system that project at best to be bottom 6 centers outside of maybe Werek. And who knows what Christensen's future is...we already know White has no place with the team.

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12-26-2010, 09:09 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msg View Post
Its Richards or nothing. No more adding 2nd tier guys like Jokinen, Frolov, Kotalik etc and praying it works. The rangers need to add a legitimate first line player. If they cant add Richards at the deadline than just continue to stay the course with the young kids and go after him in the summer.

Hopefully Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik will be our top line by the deadline or next year.
Agreed. If we can't get Richards, then we need to just go with the guys we've got.

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