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#35 - 12.18.2010 | New York Rangers @ Philadelphia Flyers | 1:00 PM - MSG (HD)

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Old
12-18-2010, 05:20 PM
  #751
NJGoalie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
On the shot that hit the post:

-Was it just me or when the puck was spinning in the air did it completely go over the goal line? I thought I saw white space between the line and the puck, then again, only one shot of it on MSG so I could be wrong.
Flyers fan coming in peace.

The Avery shot clearly never went in, unless the puck defied physics. It was shown completely across the line on the replay, but the puck was in the air and the camera angle was on the front side of the goal line.

It hit the left post, bounced (now appearing across the goal line), then hit Bouche's skate)in front of the goal line, and went behind the net.Unless there was a significant gust of wind, theres no way the puck ever crossed.

On MDZ, I have yet to see why he is hyped so much, or has been hyped in the past. Even in a pretty good rookie year, he made some pretty egregious mistakes, which he seems to still make. I don't think Torts is the right coach for him. He looks great in flashes but then downright terrible in others.

I do think Stepan is going to be a stud in the league in a year or 2. He looks like he has the goods and looks comfortable playing at the NHL level, and also has a nice scoring touch.

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12-18-2010, 05:21 PM
  #752
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How'd they play? Did Weise look good in his debut?
yes sir he did

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12-18-2010, 05:43 PM
  #753
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Neither do I. I just don't see what the big deal is about sending him down. His play has certainly merited it, IMO.

It's one thing to live with a mistake from a young kid now and then. But with the frequency MDZ has been making them, some action needs to be taken. Let him rip it up in CT for a few weeks.

I love the kid, and I know he'll start to get his game back together eventually. I just think the best way to do it is with a stint down in the AHL.
I really agree with this 100% as someone stated earlier, same thing happened with Callahan and look how well it worked out for him.

MDZ never had time to work things out in the minors. He was thrown into the NHL at a very young age and was forced to adjust. He will likely dominate the AHL, gain confidence and can work on some things that he really shouldn't be working on at the NHL level.

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12-18-2010, 05:47 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
I'm still confused by the Weise non-goal. I understand due to the wording of the rule that the call was ok, but the rule itself seems vague. Even the wording of 'distinct kicking motion' is far too open to interpretation. I'm assuming the rule is there to stop players kicking near the goalie and other players during scrambles at the crease, but wouldn't it be easier to change the rule to something along the lines of that if the puck goes in off a skate, and the skate is on the ice, it's a goal regardless?? Seems it would clear up confusion
ref called it a 'no goal'. the replay wasn't 'decisive'. so the original ruling held. had the initial ruling been 'goal', i reckon it would have stood.

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12-18-2010, 05:47 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by NJGoalie View Post
Flyers fan coming in peace.

The Avery shot clearly never went in, unless the puck defied physics. It was shown completely across the line on the replay, but the puck was in the air and the camera angle was on the front side of the goal line.

It hit the left post, bounced (now appearing across the goal line), then hit Bouche's skate)in front of the goal line, and went behind the net.Unless there was a significant gust of wind, theres no way the puck ever crossed.
Thank you! I was hoping to see another replay on it from MSG, but they never did. I didn't have my DVR to see if my eyes were playing tricks on me (they obviously did).

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12-18-2010, 05:49 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by NJGoalie View Post
Flyers fan coming in peace.

The Avery shot clearly never went in, unless the puck defied physics. It was shown completely across the line on the replay, but the puck was in the air and the camera angle was on the front side of the goal line.

It hit the left post, bounced (now appearing across the goal line), then hit Bouche's skate)in front of the goal line, and went behind the net.Unless there was a significant gust of wind, theres no way the puck ever crossed.

On MDZ, I have yet to see why he is hyped so much, or has been hyped in the past. Even in a pretty good rookie year, he made some pretty egregious mistakes, which he seems to still make. I don't think Torts is the right coach for him. He looks great in flashes but then downright terrible in others.

I do think Stepan is going to be a stud in the league in a year or 2. He looks like he has the goods and looks comfortable playing at the NHL level, and also has a nice scoring touch.
gotta agree. i saw it looked to be over the line on the replay, but i think that had to do with the camera angle. physics would seem to indicate it did not go in.

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12-18-2010, 05:53 PM
  #757
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Neither do I. I just don't see what the big deal is about sending him down. His play has certainly merited it, IMO.

It's one thing to live with a mistake from a young kid now and then. But with the frequency MDZ has been making them, some action needs to be taken. Let him rip it up in CT for a few weeks.

I love the kid, and I know he'll start to get his game back together eventually. I just think the best way to do it is with a stint down in the AHL.
I'm a huge DZ fan. I have higher hopes for him than most of even his biggest fans on here. And if you had said this a month ago, I would've said no way, let him fight through it. But he's just not making adjustments at all. He makes a brutal turnover in one shift. Three shifts later he does the same thing that caused the first turnover. Maybe the puck doesn't get turned over the second time, and because of that, he never learns and adjusts. He's not reading the play well. He's trying too hard and trying to do too much on both sides of the puck and he's making fundamental mistakes like bringing the puck to the middle of the ice in front of his own net. You don't ever do that unless it's absolutely necessary or you're Nick Lidstrom. I don't think his head is in the right place. I think he's a good kid with a good head on his shoulders, but I think perhaps the lifestyle and culture shock that he's experienced over his first year and a quarter of adult NHL life has had a negative impact on him. He seems to have way too much of a cavalier attitude on the ice. Off the ice, in interviews he seems like a quiet, humble, friendly, good-hearted guy, but on the ice I see him do off-putting things like jumping in front of Girardi to basically take the puck from him and rush up ice only to turn it over.

I'd put up with his defensive mental lapses and turnovers IF he was providing that dynamic offensive contribution that he was so consistent at in his rookie season. But that has completely disappeared, and now his defensive inadequacies are that much more noticeable and that much more frequent. Where is the PP QB? It's like he's forgotten how to draw defenders to him and then dish a perfect pass to the open man. I think this has to do with confidence. He's just not there mentally right now and because of it, we've seen what appears to be a disappearance of his patience and precision with the puck. He's over-thinking, over-anticipating, over-playing (when he's battling the guy with the puck in our own zone). It's a bad combination. I expected the coaches to work with him and help him realize what he was doing and walk him slowly back to where he was last year, so he could build on that. But it's a total regression and it hasn't improved one bit since his awful first month of this season. It's been 3 awful months now. The healthy-scratch had no effect on his game. He even said that he didn't want to change too much when he got back in the lineup. Wrong answer. You need to be a different player than the one you are playing as right now. It's time for him to be sent down and work on basic hockey plays. I'm cautious of sending anyone down to the developmental hell that Hartford seems to be, but it's not doing DZ or the Rangers any good by having him bolster his routine of bad habits and mis-managing his minutes. Hopefully it'll be a huge wake-up call for him, more so than the scratching, and it'll only take a few weeks for him to regain some confidence and be able to have a positive impact for the Rangers.

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12-18-2010, 05:55 PM
  #758
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Someone's gotta explain to me what Ruslan Fedotenko brings to the table that Torts loves him for that anybody else doesn't. Avery would be much better served on the third line. I don't think that Fedotenko's been awful but the guy gets increased minutes and even gets put on the first line with Gaborik at a point while Avery continues to play fourth line minutes. I'm of the mindset that Avery isn't at his most effective unless he's getting minutes. Playing him 7-9 minutes doesn't let him do much.

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12-18-2010, 06:04 PM
  #759
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Weise was sent back down to Connecticut this afternoon after the game.

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12-18-2010, 06:07 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
Weise was sent back down to Connecticut this afternoon after the game.
I guess after the loss today, the team decided that they needed a great white spark to get them back on their winning ways!

Edit - Just saw the reasoning. Makes sense since it gets the kid playing time before Thursday and saves whatever cap hit he has for the next couple of days.

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12-18-2010, 06:18 PM
  #761
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i disagree on both accounts. what makes MDZ unique is his ability to do that long pass...sure, sometimes its going to get intercepted. hes a kid..you want youth movement, you need to be able to live with his mistakes as he learns and grows. Avery on the other hand didnt do much of anything, i dont even remember the near goal youre talking about, but regardless, he wasnt noticeable unless youre talking about a stupid penalty. i like Sean dont get me wrong, ive ALWAYS been a fan of his, but i think his necessity to this team is more than mitigated by Prust, who does more, and is a better fighter.
MDZ hasn't done anything unique this year except make bad turnovers, either long breakout passes or stickhandling with the puck when he should just make the safe pass using the boards. He is hesitant to shoot the puck on the PP always looking to pass. The best part of his game last season was his offensive ability, well that has all but disappeared and its noticeable as Step, Staal and Girardi are way better on the point. He needs to work on his decision making, his turnover took us out of the game and as a result we didn't see him the rest of the day.

As for avery, his shot that hit the post was with less than 7 minutes left. Avery is a better skater, passer, shooter, and agitator than prust. Prust is MUCH and i mean MUch better defensively and is a better hitter and fighter, but avery can serve a purpose and looked great at times with gabby and EC. I see no reason avery can't be given a shot with Stepan and Gaborik. Tonight who really did much of anything? Either way Avery and prust can both be utilized, its players like them along with boyle, feds, frolov, dubi, and cally that take a toll on a defense and grind them down.

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12-18-2010, 06:24 PM
  #762
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how exactly would zherdev fit in on a team where brian boyle would rank above him in points? he wouldnt...at all. good riddance let philly deal with him when he disappears until easter.
To be fair he has been a healthy scratch because Laviolette won't stand for the ***** he's pulled in other places, and the depth we have allows him to be scratched and not missed. The guy is awesome and I hope as does every other Flyer fan they keep Shelley scratched forever....

And up until the past few games when he has played it's been on the 4th line with Shelley and Betts and the guy was still scoring. Aganist Montreal the other night they said he scores every 35 mins he's on the ice. 3rd in the league to that ****** in Pitt and Stamkos. Pretty impressive with the TOI he has.

He's way better than Boyle and has the same amount of points with 140 mins less TOI, and would have more points if he had Boyle's TOI, and if he disappears after easter that's fine, We're probably the deepest team in the league and have 7 or 8 other guys that will pick up the slack. Good game today, you guys been playing solid.


Last edited by LI Fly Guy: 12-18-2010 at 06:37 PM.
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12-18-2010, 06:52 PM
  #763
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I just think the whole team, aside from Stepan and Hank just played a dumb game today.

That's it. Stupid mental mistakes cost the Rangers the game.

Not testing Boucher enough when he clearly was very, very off his game cost the Rangers the game.
very true. so far they've played their stupidest, against philthy.

we make it so easy for them to score sometimes it infuriates me.

Rosy and MDZ were just awful to day though...

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12-18-2010, 07:01 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by NJGoalie View Post
Flyers fan coming in peace.



On MDZ, I have yet to see why he is hyped so much, or has been hyped in the past. Even in a pretty good rookie year, he made some pretty egregious mistakes, which he seems to still make. I don't think Torts is the right coach for him. He looks great in flashes but then downright terrible in others.
what don't you understand? he's an OFD who's 19! He needs to be sent down, but we don't have anyone to take his place evidently.

Lol why isn't Torts the right coach for him???

JVR has been taking some time right? Coburn isn't there yet either.

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12-18-2010, 07:04 PM
  #765
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Someone's gotta explain to me what Ruslan Fedotenko brings to the table that Torts loves him for that anybody else doesn't. Avery would be much better served on the third line. I don't think that Fedotenko's been awful but the guy gets increased minutes and even gets put on the first line with Gaborik at a point while Avery continues to play fourth line minutes. I'm of the mindset that Avery isn't at his most effective unless he's getting minutes. Playing him 7-9 minutes doesn't let him do much.
Easy. Fedotenko is a pet of Tortorella's, while Avery is not. You could probably make the argument with statistics, comparing points with ice times and linemates, that Aves is the better choice, but just by watching them play, you can draw that conclusion.

Fedotenko does have a role on this team - he's a darn good squad player. He's just not deserving of the minutes he's given. He's not earning them.

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12-18-2010, 07:10 PM
  #766
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We are very similar to the Flyers in terms of play style. The issue is, that team is just much more skilled, top to bottom - besides for goalie.

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12-18-2010, 07:20 PM
  #767
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sure would have been nice to draft giroux in 2006 instead of sanguinetti.

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12-18-2010, 07:42 PM
  #768
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To be fair he has been a healthy scratch because Laviolette won't stand for the ***** he's pulled in other places, and the depth we have allows him to be scratched and not missed. The guy is awesome and I hope as does every other Flyer fan they keep Shelley scratched forever....

And up until the past few games when he has played it's been on the 4th line with Shelley and Betts and the guy was still scoring. Aganist Montreal the other night they said he scores every 35 mins he's on the ice. 3rd in the league to that ****** in Pitt and Stamkos. Pretty impressive with the TOI he has.

He's way better than Boyle and has the same amount of points with 140 mins less TOI, and would have more points if he had Boyle's TOI, and if he disappears after easter that's fine, We're probably the deepest team in the league and have 7 or 8 other guys that will pick up the slack. Good game today, you guys been playing solid.
What exactly does that mean? He is being benched because Laviolette wants to win and Zherdev's loafing and inconsistency conflicts with that?

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12-18-2010, 08:09 PM
  #769
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Ya can't win them all. At least the effort is there so you can't fault them in that regard. A few inches the other way for Avery and Weise, the outcome of the game could have been drastically different.

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12-18-2010, 08:44 PM
  #770
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What exactly does that mean? He is being benched because Laviolette wants to win and Zherdev's loafing and inconsistency conflicts with that?
More because it conflicts with Laviolette's coaching style and the system that's been implemented. Zherdev has been fine in the effort department ever since being scratched, but Laviolette appreciates two-way play and demands hustle and effort. Even our forechecking intensive system demands it.

Since our GM is so set on having three scoring lines, guys like Zherdev (who can score and come with a cheap cap hit), that few and far between, are necessary to round out the top nine.

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12-18-2010, 09:39 PM
  #771
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To be fair he has been a healthy scratch because Laviolette won't stand for the ***** he's pulled in other places, and the depth we have allows him to be scratched and not missed. The guy is awesome and I hope as does every other Flyer fan they keep Shelley scratched forever....

And up until the past few games when he has played it's been on the 4th line with Shelley and Betts and the guy was still scoring. Aganist Montreal the other night they said he scores every 35 mins he's on the ice. 3rd in the league to that ****** in Pitt and Stamkos. Pretty impressive with the TOI he has.

He's way better than Boyle and has the same amount of points with 140 mins less TOI, and would have more points if he had Boyle's TOI, and if he disappears after easter that's fine, We're probably the deepest team in the league and have 7 or 8 other guys that will pick up the slack. Good game today, you guys been playing solid.
Hockey is about more than points.

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12-18-2010, 09:43 PM
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I dont get these flyers fans coming here and acting like they watch the rangers every game....torts isnt the right coach for MDZ....wtf. Torts has been, imo, awesome with the young kids and has really changed his attitude this year adjusting to there mistakes, specifically MDZ's. and zherdev>boyle. Have any of them SEEN boyle play every night. Guy does a lot more than just pot goals. He's a good defensive center and is awesome on the pk. Along with his size and grit, not to mention youth...he can still develop a lot.

Anyways, had a Rangers 2010 calendar hanging on my wall. It was from the 08 team and zherdev was the december month. After today's game, needless to say that went into the trash a couple of weeks early.

Btw to the flyers fan who said they have the deepest team in the league, real sweet comments you can make after a win on OUR board, get a goalie than will start talking about depth. I have a feeling BOB isnt going to cut it.

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12-19-2010, 01:02 AM
  #773
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I didn't read this thread or any others because I'm afraid of the doom/gloom that is probably here.

The Rangers took the last 3/4 against Washington, Pittsburgh, and Phoenix.

We lost to the best team (right now) in the NHL. It wasn't even that bad, we had a few mistakes (Ugh, MDZ) and a few breakdowns but give credit to the Flyers. We play similar styles but it's hard to handle a team that is stronger and simply more talented.

Im real proud of the Rangers and am looking forward to our next game. LGR!


Last edited by nyr2k2: 12-19-2010 at 01:58 AM.
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12-19-2010, 01:05 AM
  #774
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I'm not. Flyers look amazing.

I didn't read this thread or any others because I'm afraid of the doom/gloom that is probably here.

The Rangers took the last 3/4 against Washington, Pittsburgh, and Phoenix.

We lost to the best team (right now) in the NHL. It wasn't even that bad, we had a few mistakes (Ugh, MDZ) and a few breakdowns but give credit to the Flyers. We play similar styles but it's hard to handle a team that is stronger and simply more talented.

Im real proud of the Rangers and am looking forward to our next game. LGR!
It actually wasn't all that bad. I think most people were being reasonable and laying the blame with whom it rightfully belonged without getting out of hand. Like you said 3/4 including two of the best teams in the league (despite a slumping Caps) and a 6-3-0 December with 3 very winnable games on the horizon. It's hard to be irrationally mad right now.

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12-19-2010, 01:39 AM
  #775
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what don't you understand? he's an OFD who's 19! He needs to be sent down, but we don't have anyone to take his place evidently.

Lol why isn't Torts the right coach for him???

JVR has been taking some time right? Coburn isn't there yet either.
I understand he has a ton of potential, and I agree he probably should have been sent down already. It doesn't seem like he responds that well to Torts style, just a casual observation. He is a pretty polarizing coach, I'm sure a lot of young players do respond well. Lecavalier certainly seemed to when he played for him. Not ripping Torts, just saying he may not be the guy that can get the best out of DZ.

JVR is taking a little longer than us fans have hoped, but I think Laviolette has made some good moves toward getting him to where he is now, which is worlds better than he was to start the season. He seems to be prone to long droughts and rough stretches though, so he could end up being jekyll and hyde like MDZ has been thus far.

Don't know about Coburn, I think he is at the point where we know what we are getting with him. He isn't an elite defenseman but he knows his role and does it pretty well. I don't see him getting much


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